It all has to do with the limb design. The limbs on O.L.'s bow are concave/convex from about mid limb to the tips. It stiffens the limb tips and allowing for less weight on the tips. End results, faster recovery of the limbs thus more speed. Doubt you will be able to get one that heavy. If I remember right he has something like a 65# limit. At times he does have one that turns out above weight. That would most likely be the only way you could get one much above that.
I'm going on bad memory here but, if I remember right the 52# bow Dr. Ed shot pushed something like a 850gr arrow at 132 FPS. O.L. told me about it but, I was having one of those pain days and had taken some of my pain meds. I may not have the exact story quite up to par but, I think I'm pretty close.
-------------------- Troy D. Breeding
Retirement ain't what it's cracked up to be. Posts: 1174 | From: Quincy, OH | Registered: Mar 2003
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Would that put it over the Black Widow's? I was under the impression that they were one of the fastest bows produced, and I believe they also posses the Reflex/Deflex design engineering. The weight limit thing kinda sucks as I like to shoot some heavy equipment, hence the handle. Would love to give one a try someday. Thanks.
-------------------- -Extremist Victory in life is to die for what you were born to do. "Pain is weakness leaving the body" - an Instructor "I hope you live forever" - 300 Posts: 70 | From: Indiana | Registered: Sep 2004
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O.L.s ACS bows have been shot several times against BW bows. The BW has yet to beat the ACS. The CX is even faster than the ACS.
Year before last Norb Malany (hope I spelled his name right)tested one of O.L.s ACS bow and it topped everything he had ever tested in Traditional gear.
-------------------- Troy D. Breeding
Retirement ain't what it's cracked up to be. Posts: 1174 | From: Quincy, OH | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Black Widow bows have good speed, but aren't the fastest by any means. Of course speed doesn't mean everything, especially if you can't controll it.
As far as I know, O.L.'s bows are among the fastest longbows, if not the fastest, all else being equal. In my opinion, any longbow that shoots 10 grains per lb. at 180 fps or more is fast.
posted
Yep, Troy has it 'bout right. Cher has one of O.L.'s CX bows. I'm doing some 'playing' with it at the moment, and will have a lot to say about it pretty soon ... when I know all I want to about it.
Have checked the draw weight several times. I'm pulling only 55# on it and Cher is pulling about 52.5# to 52.75#.
I'm not much of a 'bow freak'. Bows just launch the arrow. If it's silent enough, easy for me to shoot well under hunting conditions, and tosses the arrows out well enough to give me the impact force I want, I'm pretty satisfied. That said, all I'll say at the moment about O.L.'s CX is that it has been a long, long time since I lusted for a bow ... but the CX ... it is incredable! Having to keep repeating my test because I'm finding it hard to believe what I'm seeing! Pretty sure that a 65#-70# CX would equal the performance of my 82# bows I usually hunt with.
Ed uumm i just saw that the boy was telln ya he's been playing wiid MY bow....yep, i'll hav ta lock it up be4 he leaves Posts: 1021 | From: Brisbane, Australia | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I'm baaaaack! Ah, I see dis is a SERIOUS thread about buff etc... sorry for the intruption then - I just leaned over Ed's shoulder for a read and had to stick my noseypoke in. He DID try to stop me from getting to the keys though - hence my bad spelling above.
Ed is rather taken by this OL bow (so am I for that matter). You should realize though that there are some disadvantages to such a bow....
1. The tredjectory is tooooo flat! This means ya have to learn to just POINT AND SHOOT...don't go thinking that you'll have to lift your arm to get the arrow 'way down there'...you'll just lose that arrow. Have just set up a few arrows suitable for target, spined 'just right' at my draw for that dang bow. Well, after having a long history of 'never quite making it' to the 50 metre targets....now I'm shooting over them!!!! Still have one arrow hiding in the scrub behind the far target on our local range! Since I only started with 6 arrows (got some lil 2112's to play with till I've set up some LIGHT woodies) this can be somewhat of a pain.
2. The other 'problem' I've encountered...is that my grouping has improved!!! Tut tut! Killed one of my arrows the other day 'cause that dang bow made me group too close!
So you see boys, you really should be careful what you wish for - not that I'm complaining....but we girls are a different matter... One can never have too many shoes....or bows especially pretty ones like those that O.L. makes!
Cher p.s. for the 'serious' stuff....well, I'm going to go 'help' Ed (hehehe) with the buff this year - can't let him just take the bow and not me!! - so guess we'll have some of that yabber to tell ya'all later on.
-------------------- "Don't tell God how big the storm is... Tell the storm how big God is." Posts: 128 | From: Australia | Registered: May 2003
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posted
You have a website for 'em or a phone number? Do they just make long bows or are you talking about recurves as well. You mention that Black widow's bows are not as fast but is that just with the longbow configuration or with their Bamboo limbed recurve? Reason I'm asking is that I spoke with them a little while ago about their longbow and I was instructed that it didn't hold up compared to the PMA series of recurves that they called "one of the fastest bows built". They also mentioned the benefit of adding Bamboo to the limbs in the PMA-V "Ironwood" bows. On a different note, Howard Hill Longbow "Tembo" has five layers of Bamboo and is supposed to shoot right along with any recurve bow. I love the advice you all give so this is much appreciated, especially coming from those that use them everyday. Thanks.
-------------------- -Extremist Victory in life is to die for what you were born to do. "Pain is weakness leaving the body" - an Instructor "I hope you live forever" - 300 Posts: 70 | From: Indiana | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
I have a question gentlemen. Does anyone know what the comparison would be with traditional vs modern compound in terms of K.E. with heavy arrows? The reason I'm asking is because I'm curious as to how much wt a modern compound would have to be to equal the heavy pull trad bow in energy. I find performance info facinating, partially because Saxton Pope and Art Young used heavy self bows for dangerous game, with good results even though they probably did not have much K.E. Of course, modern trad. bows are much more efficient, so their results could be duplicated with many lbs less draw wt. I am very priviledged to own an Adcock CX longbow,(hi O.L) and it certainly represents the pinnacle of performance in a Trad. bow. I also own a modern compound bow that produces large K.E. numbers. Does anyone have any hard numbers to compare the two? Let me add the question "Am I they only one that gets annoyed when bow weight is the main thing that is discussed when discussing large animals? Isn't momentum and K.E. the bottom line? What I want to know is how much momentum or K.E. is considered bottom line or top line, and how those numbers can be acheived with various equipment. Thank you in advance, you guys are the greatest!
posted
I guess this would be a good time to add that I currently have a bow that generates over 130lbs KE, and am working on one that should top 140 if all goes well. The first one is a custom built Sampson compound with special 50% let-off cams that are the fastest made to date, pulling around 110lbs. The new one is an Oneida 120lbs+ with special mods that could take a while to explain. Those are for the heavy work.
-------------------- -Extremist Victory in life is to die for what you were born to do. "Pain is weakness leaving the body" - an Instructor "I hope you live forever" - 300 Posts: 70 | From: Indiana | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Extremist, have they given any numbers? Bow weight, arrow weight, speed? I've shot several BW recurves, had two myself, and the speed was good, but not exceptional. I've never owned a Hill longbow, but I have shot a few, and owned and shot several Hill style bows. I've never seen one come close to the same speed as a good recurve or even the faster longbows I've shot. The new Black Widow catalog claims their longbow is as fast as "a" BW recurve, but I'm the type that would have to see it first.
posted
Well for BW, it's not that hard to get some good speed but nothing spectacular. I unfortunately have no hard numbers for BW, hence the inquiry above. If you are looking for a good, accurate recurve then they are very well suited. Heavy riser wood (3.25lbs for PMA) with up to 32 layers. Very attractive wood with a good balance in the hand and very little shock and a natural feel/aim in hand. I have shot them and I do like them very much so, if you are a recurve kinda guy, but I must say they are designed to be a target style bow, that is for sure. Their longbow isn't much to brag about but it's fairly fast for a longbow, though I think it follows their recurve engineering a little too much. As for Howard Hill bows, they have a posted expected speed. They "will generally shoot a minimum speed of 115 feet per second plus the weight of the bow (i.e. a 65# bow should shoot at least 180 fps and may exceed that minimum)." Howard Hill bows are steeped in tradition and appear/handle as such. Very light with bamboo limbs, handles nicely with straight grip, though other grips are offered. I do like the way they feel as I think they are how traditional bows are supposed to feel. Decisions, decisions.
-------------------- -Extremist Victory in life is to die for what you were born to do. "Pain is weakness leaving the body" - an Instructor "I hope you live forever" - 300 Posts: 70 | From: Indiana | Registered: Sep 2004
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Does Hill give any kind of numbers for arrow weight?
I've shot several of then an have yet to find one that will produce those kinds of speed with decent arrow weight (i.e. 10gpp or more) unless the draw was exceptionally long.
If I'm not mistaken you can find O.L.s web site in the vendor links of this site.
O.L. has made a recurve or two but basically sticks to longbows. Since he started the ACS line it's been all longbows. The concave/convex limb design is why.
-------------------- Troy D. Breeding
Retirement ain't what it's cracked up to be. Posts: 1174 | From: Quincy, OH | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I just went back and read an old post that answered my question pretty well. As an experiment, I shot a fish arrow out of a 57# compound bow. I had to weigh the arrow on a baker's scale so it is estimated after converting 2 7/8 oz to 1256gr. Speed 148fps KE 61,and momentum .82 . So my silly question is already answered. The more efficient the bow, the less bow weight is necessary to achieve a given amount of KE or momentum. Brilliant! Lol
posted
Not meaning to put down Hill bows, but that doesn't make much sense to me. A particular design, with a given arrow weight (for example, 10 grains per lb) should have very similar speed when drawn the same length. For instance, a 40# bow shooting a 400 grain arrow should have about the same speed as a 60# bow shooting a 600 grain arrow.
180 fps is pretty quick for a longbow drawn to 28" shooting 10 grains per lb. I don't get quite 190 fps with mine, and I draw it 30.5"--that's with arrows that are just under 10 grains per lb (average about 9.5 gpp). I can drop arrow weight and get 220 fps or better.
Not trying to argue the point with you or doubt your honesty, just the information you were given leaves a bit open for question.
The Hill bows are steeped in the tradition of Howard Hill, and no doubt he was an amazing shot with his own design, but there are much more efficient bows on the market now. I personally like a grip that fits my hand, rather than having to make my hand fit the grip.
quote: The more efficient the bow, the less bow weight is necessary to achieve a given amount of KE or momentum. Brilliant! Lol
Yep, that's it in a nutshell as far as speed/momentum/KE is concerned.
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I may not have the exact story quite up to par but, I think I'm pretty close.
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especially pretty ones like those that O.L. makes! ![[laffsmyl]](graemlins/laffsmyl.gif)
