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» Trad Gang.com » Main Forums » Dangerous Game » Suggestions for Cape buffalo Arrow? (Page 2)

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Author Topic: Suggestions for Cape buffalo Arrow?
Jay Campbell JD
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Once you get into the truly heavyweight shafts for truly heavyweight bows, Rick (The "Arrowmaster") is right. You are building them yourself. IPE can get close, Purpleheart is even stiffer/heavier, but these are subject to being wider than the broadhead ferrule, variability of spine and straightness, etc. Karen and I used custom Gold TIp Big Game 100s with a smaller diameter carbon arrow laminated inside in the forward 12 inches of the shaft (gorilla glue), tipped with 200 grains of weights, 125 grain adaptors, and a 160 grain STOS. Total weight 1020 grains, FOC 24%, total diameter smaller than the broadhead ferrule. Because of the laminated insert, these shafts are NOT subject to the same breaking stresses that Dr. Ashby and O.L. Adcock (a good friend) describe. The laminated piece strengthens the forward carbon shaft. We each had one arrow kills, and the arrows survived the experience whole. This is not too hard to build, and like Rick, I had perfect bare shaft flight, so did karen. My bow was an 80# BW PLX, Karen's a 70# Adcock ACX. Arrow speed 168 FPS out of both bows. GOOD LUCK! - Jay and Karen Campbell

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The how and why of hunting is more important than the what, or the where, or with whom. In hunting - as in life - the joy is in the journey.

Posts: 147 | From: Florida | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Steelhead
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Thankyou very much Jay!!!

I appreciate your input!

Take care Jay

Posts: 4879 | From: Lake Orion MI. | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ozy clint
Contributor 2012
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jay- same weight arrow, same speed but 10# difference in draw weight! what's doing? [Confused]

is the ACX that much more efficient or does your wife have a draw 4" longer than yours?

also, what carbon were you putting in the 100+?

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The mountains song
is not heard by all
But the lure is strong
who hear it's call.

Border black douglas recurve 70# and 58# HEX6 BB2 limbs

Posts: 2340 | From: in the hills south of Stanthorpe, Qld, Australia | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jay Campbell JD
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The ACX is just that much more efficient. Both 29" draw. I spent a year working up the arrows, testing bows, running everything through the chronograph, doing all of the momentum/KE calculations, etc, etc. Karen spent a year building up to 70# at 29". OL Adcock built Karen 2 custom bows just for the hunt. Ken Beck built mine :-) The Adcock is much faster, apples to apples. Karen loves it. I love the PLX. The old beman "outsert" shafts (Cabelas also sold a version) fit the inside of the Gold Tip perfectly, allowing just enough room for the Gorilla Glue to expand. I bought a bunch before they stopped selling them. The Easton aluminum "Jazz" 1516 (I think) also fits right, but is less stiff. That arrow builds out to a little over 900 grains with the same construction technique. - Jay

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The how and why of hunting is more important than the what, or the where, or with whom. In hunting - as in life - the joy is in the journey.

Posts: 147 | From: Florida | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ozy clint
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wow!

--------------------
The mountains song
is not heard by all
But the lure is strong
who hear it's call.

Border black douglas recurve 70# and 58# HEX6 BB2 limbs

Posts: 2340 | From: in the hills south of Stanthorpe, Qld, Australia | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tilzbow
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Ozy,

Last winter I was playing around with an arrow similiar to what Jay described and I was have trouble finding shafts to fit inside of shafts when OL Adcock recommended Aerospace Composite Products and they carry a bunch of different sizes of carbon tubes that will work great.

For a gold tip I think the .254 OD would work since the ID of a GT is .256. I would order one of the .240 and one of the .254 and see which worked best. Gorilla glue will fill in the extra space of the .240. Check out this website for more info:

http://www.acp-composites.com/home.php?cat=4663

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One man thinks he can, the other doesn't. Both are right!

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Steelhead
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Very enlightning ideas being suggested here men.Gives me food for thought and I got plenty of time to play around with some of these ideas.It will be interesting to see how things shake out.

i will keep you in mind Jay and have my brother talk to you sometime before his hunt comes up.He may want to hook up with you and do some testing.I Pmd you before and My bro lives down the highway from you a short drive.Thanks again for your response!

Posts: 4879 | From: Lake Orion MI. | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jay Campbell JD
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Keep in mind that if you use a full length insert you will not be able to achieve the extreme FOC of 24% or so. Only by using a forward insert, approximately 1/2 of the arrow length, can you keep the dynamic and static spine high enough and the arrow front-loaded enough. Frankly, I think the Easton "Jazz" solution is a great one. I just wanted a 1000 grain arrow, and could only get that much weight, front end load, and perfect flight with carbon.

RE: the gorilla glue: I roughed the inside of the shaft with a .223 brush full length, cleaned it with alcohol, then dish soap and rinsed with water. Same for the insert package. I used an insert rod, coated it with Gorilla Glue, and swabbed the entire length of the inside shaft with glue. This is to keep the insert from breaking loose and travelling backward. I coated the insert package and put it in (remember to have the inside of the shaft wet, and the insert package wet - GG cures chemically by interaction with water, not by air-drying).

Once the package was assembled, and excess glue wiped (use gloves, cloths - GG is BAD if it gets on your hands), I put the shafts point side down with the feather ends stuck inside an upside down boot for pressure. This is enough. I never had a problem with the inserts being forced out from the GG expansion. These arrows are incredibly strong. - Jay Campbell, JD

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The how and why of hunting is more important than the what, or the where, or with whom. In hunting - as in life - the joy is in the journey.

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Rick McGowan
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I happened to be cleaning up in the mountain of paper I refer to as my office and came across the post-it note with the sizes of aluminum shafts that will fit inside a GT or similar size carbon. Jay used the 1516 "Jazz" shaft, but Easton also makes or at least made a 1512 X7 shaft. These small aluminum shafts can be really hard to find though. I never did locate any of the X7's.
Posts: 1390 | From: GEORGIA, USA | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
michaelschwister
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I recently purchase some surewood tapered douglas fir shafts that spine .260 with finished arrows weighing in at 740 grains with 160 grain tips. I would imagine you could get these shafts over 900 grains pretty easy by using a parallel design and woody weights, as well as heavier head.

Mike

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"The best thing to give to your enemy is forgiveness; to a friend, your heart; to your child, a good example; to a father, deference; to your mother, conduct that will make her proud of you; to yourself, respect" - Benjamin Franklin

Posts: 572 | From: Elkton Virginia | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
michaelschwister
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Quick add to the last post, for spine conversion they were ordered 110-115# spine. Also, after looking at the woody weight ad, I guess a guy could stay with tapered shafts and still get to almost 1000 grains total arrow weight.

Mike

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"The best thing to give to your enemy is forgiveness; to a friend, your heart; to your child, a good example; to a father, deference; to your mother, conduct that will make her proud of you; to yourself, respect" - Benjamin Franklin

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Smallwood
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paul brunner used diamondwood arrows i think.
Posts: 1609 | From: Colorado | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BUFF
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With help from Dr Ashby and the Trad Gang guys, I used a 29" long carbon heritage 350 shaft with a 28" long beman shaft inside of it. I added a brass insert and a 200 grain GK head. it was too stiff. I started cutting down the beman 1/2" at a time until I ended up with a 20-1/2" beman with the rest of the inside filled with 8 grain per inch weight tube. It bare shafts great and ended up 988 grains. I don't get to hunt Cape Buffalo with it until August but I have whacked a couple of hogs with it and feel very good about shooting most anything walking with it. my bow is a 83# BW recurve
Posts: 1103 | From: HALLSVILLE TEXAS | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jay Campbell JD
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Buff: The only thing you are likely not getting is high FOC. If you remove the weight tube and use (my personal preference) Gorilla Glue to fix the forward beman shaft in place, you will need more weight up front to compensate for the increased dynamic spine. Total weight should remain about the same, FOC will go up. Dr. Ashby's data suggests penetration increases dramatically, which was my experience on Buff. - Jay Campbell, JD

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The how and why of hunting is more important than the what, or the where, or with whom. In hunting - as in life - the joy is in the journey.

Posts: 147 | From: Florida | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
marlon
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I got the 2440 cone adapter and alluminum nocks. deflection .200 used 200 grain heads weight 1200 grains. work well out of 140# and 150# bow. Marlon

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marlon torres

Posts: 420 | From: las vegas nv | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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