Dangerous Game

Contribute to Trad Gang
Become a Trad Gang Sponsor
Abowyer, Inc.





Trad Gang.com Post New Topic  Post A Reply
MY PROFILE | directory login | register | search | FAQ | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Trad Gang.com » Main Forums » Dangerous Game » "From the Field" Water Buffalo Shot placement and Observations . (Page 1)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!   This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3   
Author Topic: "From the Field" Water Buffalo Shot placement and Observations .
tradtusker
Trad Bowhunter
Member # 8659

Icon 1 posted      Profile for tradtusker   Email tradtusker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
As the tiles states,
ill go through some rough field pics showing what Iv found over the last few years hunting and guiding Water Buffalo hunts.
Notes on shot placement and findings testing various broadheads and bow and arrow set-ups.

Hopefully help out those wanting to pursue Big game or Buffalo

 -

 -

--------------------
There is more to the Hunt.. then the Horns

**TGMM Family of the Bow**


Andy Ivy

Posts: 4140 | From: African in Australia | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oldgoat
Contributor 2015
Member # 21086

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oldgoat   Email oldgoat   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Andy, glad you are back. Looking forward to this after following along on your other post. Not that I will ever hunt these guys I would like to hear about your thoughts.

--------------------
TGMM Family of the Bow

Posts: 384 | From: West Texas | Registered: Aug 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tradtusker
Trad Bowhunter
Member # 8659

Icon 1 posted      Profile for tradtusker   Email tradtusker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So the bread and butter shot is the Broadside or Slightly Quartering away, In the right circumstances you can sneak in pretty close to a Water buff, Especially if the wind is strong. So under 30m Broadside shot.

I tell guys "Strait up the front leg, half way up the animal" its easy to calculate and gives you the most room for error.

you can tuck it in tighter into the triangle (putting you just about the heart) but its really no more effective then a solid double lung hit and you risk the heave front leg bones.

The are a few things it be careful about when taking this shot.
Actual angle, the Buff are a big slab and can be very deceiving to see if its truly slightly quartering away, perfectly broadside or slightly quartering on. With such a big neck the animals whole torso can move when it moves its head. For example a Broadside Buffalo that has its neck and head turned and looking at you, will make its chest slightly quarter towards you. So you need to look carefully at the true angle.

Take a look at this pic, this animal is ever so slightly quartering on, its a make-able shot but you have to be aware that you arrow will be angling back on the far side.

 -

--------------------
There is more to the Hunt.. then the Horns

**TGMM Family of the Bow**


Andy Ivy

Posts: 4140 | From: African in Australia | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tradtusker
Trad Bowhunter
Member # 8659

Icon 1 posted      Profile for tradtusker   Email tradtusker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Quartering on No shot here for me to risky

 -

--------------------
There is more to the Hunt.. then the Horns

**TGMM Family of the Bow**


Andy Ivy

Posts: 4140 | From: African in Australia | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tradtusker
Trad Bowhunter
Member # 8659

Icon 1 posted      Profile for tradtusker   Email tradtusker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
here is the slightly quartering away shot. Good shot to take but I don't like it to be any more quartering away then this bull. Also note its head and neck position, the ribs are going to be crunched up tight together because of it.

 -

Throw in this Cape Buff for Comparison.

 -

--------------------
There is more to the Hunt.. then the Horns

**TGMM Family of the Bow**


Andy Ivy

Posts: 4140 | From: African in Australia | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tradtusker
Trad Bowhunter
Member # 8659

Icon 1 posted      Profile for tradtusker   Email tradtusker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The Most common Error I see with the above shots is hitting to far back and to low!
On a broadside bull you just can not afford to hit him back. And the Guts come all the way right up behind the shoulder so if your even 4" or more back from the "crease" and low. There is a good chance you'l loose your bull.

Now Iv seen time and time again some quartering away problems...the angle is great for most game but i do not believe it to be a good shot on Buffalo. So much so i will never take a quartering away shot myself. Im not saying it can not or should not be done but I certainly just don't recommend it.
Its comes down to two things, the steep angle of the ribs and Broadheads "skidding" and "Deflecting" of the ribs.
Iv seen it many times and because we are obliged to shoot wounded bulls with the back up rifle it means we can take a look and see what went wrong.

 -

 -

 -

This is also where I'v seen a lot of broadheads fail, that angled impact really puts a lot of pressure on the heads. What iv seen is tips curling or the adapter bending right behind the head.
Iv noted that the longer the broadhead the more likely it will bend or curl. This is also where some of the high dollar Single bevels where Snapping off completely at the front of the head.

Through testing and observations I also noted that Certain tips shapes where less prone to skidding. The old style un modified Grizzly tanto was bad, The heads with a much smaller sharp tanto performed better but the heads that have those are prone to curling sometimes, interestingly the least prone to skidding was the sharp long profile 3 blade heads. Like the VPA 250 or 300gr. The sharper tips bite in immediately and get enough purchase on the bone to keep penetrating, and the Structural integrity from the pyramid 3 blades means it never curls.
So that was interesting to find.

--------------------
There is more to the Hunt.. then the Horns

**TGMM Family of the Bow**


Andy Ivy

Posts: 4140 | From: African in Australia | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tradtusker
Trad Bowhunter
Member # 8659

Icon 1 posted      Profile for tradtusker   Email tradtusker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Next is a Mid size Buffalo Bull..Standing.
We set it up to give a more realistic position for testing, so the bone and vitals are in the natural position.

This one needs no explaining other then the gap between the ribs is as thick as you index finger.

 -

Lungs
 -

Lungs, Liver and Guts. Please note that the lung does not go back much at all past the back of the "crease" ...I.E. Do not shoot to far behind the front leg!

 -

Here is the Engine Block, *Note, I put a Cut in the Guts and Liver to show their Location.

 -

 -

Ok that should be pretty self explanatory and give you a really good idea of where things are.

--------------------
There is more to the Hunt.. then the Horns

**TGMM Family of the Bow**


Andy Ivy

Posts: 4140 | From: African in Australia | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tradtusker
Trad Bowhunter
Member # 8659

Icon 1 posted      Profile for tradtusker   Email tradtusker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Iv always had a keen interest testing gear out in the field (In real hunting situations) as a bowhunter there are no two situations ever exactly the same when hunting and some things are still uncharted waters, when it comes to big game and the new specialized gear that is at our fingertips today.
Doing this ground work gives me a better first hand understanding of the animal, so I can become a better hunter, avoid wounding animals unnecessarily, and give better advise to those hunting with me or those wanting to hunt them.
 -

 -

--------------------
There is more to the Hunt.. then the Horns

**TGMM Family of the Bow**


Andy Ivy

Posts: 4140 | From: African in Australia | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tradtusker
Trad Bowhunter
Member # 8659

Icon 1 posted      Profile for tradtusker   Email tradtusker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Some notes on gear:

Iv seen a wide range of set-ups kill buffalo.
From as low as 60lb tradbows through to 80+ lb Compounds.
Arrows as low as 500grs through to 1000grs plus.
So it can be done with a wide range of gear.
But it comes down to the individual, his limitations, taking the right shot at the right time, bit of luck etc...
There is no "one size fits all" with hunting set-ups, But I try avoid the "its enough" "it could work under the right circumstances" approach.
With this big game it should be as good as you can personally get it. And a big game set-up or any bowhunting set-up for that matter is about finding a balance.
How much bow weight, arrow weight, broadhead type depends on what the individual can handle and do so "Accurately" and will total confidence.

The broadside shot.... pretty rare to slip one through the ribs and its unrealistic to hope for that to happen...90% of the time you will be hitting a rib, so the set-up needs to be able to punch through a big rib, and the broadhead needs to be able to handle that heavy bone without failing. And when it does its a good shot, and lethal

There has been a lot of info on what works and what does not. we wont go into that to much here, So do your research, choose your gear carefully and prepare properly. Don't get sucked in by advertising and if you take advice try take it from someone that has actually killed a few buffalo.

Ok Plan "B"

The front on shot.

--------------------
There is more to the Hunt.. then the Horns

**TGMM Family of the Bow**


Andy Ivy

Posts: 4140 | From: African in Australia | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tradtusker
Trad Bowhunter
Member # 8659

Icon 1 posted      Profile for tradtusker   Email tradtusker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The "front on shot"

This has been on my mind for years with Buffalo but I had to wait until I really had a good understanding of taking this shot before i went ahead and tested it out thoroughly.

I know it is not the shot many take on game, and its not a shot I look for on game like deer and for valid reasons. But, it is an option.
That "option" is yours to take, We will not get into the Ethics of it here, thats yours and you make your own mind up about that.

All I will do show what I have found.

Buffalo don't jump the string, even if looking strait at you when you release. Never seen it!

Buffalo are curious, it is not uncommon for a buffalo to move closer to you to get a better look.
A smart bull will circle down wind and then its game over but others will move strait towards you, especially if you are well concealed.

You can "Call" a Buffalo in under the right circumstances through Noise and Motion.

A young calf distress call can be very effective, but I only use that as a last resort as it will put the bull on edge to danger.
Flapping the hat is the most common way to get a buffalo in, the set-up has to be right, you have to be low to the ground and preferably 80% concealed, that way you are nonthreatening and the bull has to move closer to see what you are.
Height is threatening to Buffalo the higher you are the more threatened they will be.
We'v pulled Buffalo in from as far as 150m out using these methods.

One thing to consider with this shot is that bull is looking at you and knows exactly where you are.

But you have NO bone to penetrate if you hit it right, and you realistic kill zone is not much smaller then the broadside shot.
You get the "Long Cut" though the vitals.
You have Veins and Arteries close under the neck, then over the top of the heart, down the length of the lungs, and you cut through the diaphragm, 20" of penetration will get you all the way to the start of the guts.

So this is a common sight when one is coming in.
 -

I shot and kill 5 Buff this year myself with a font on shot all one arrow kills all died with 100m fast!, except the bull I Killed with the recurve.
Nigel killed his Bull with a front on shot as did a few of the clients.
Its an absolutely lethal shot!

Center of Mass is what you want here. Middle of the chest half way up the body.
The buffalo have chest and throat markings that can be used as a guide line for shot placement.
You want your arrow between these two lines.

One thing to be aware of is the huge long neck.
Head position must be right for taking this shot.
Low, Mid and High head positions are what you will get, the low head position there is no shot, it covers where you want to hit.
The Mid head position you will have to go through more neck before getting into the chest and then high head position requires less penetration to get into the vitals.

Most of the time this shot will be within 20m.
*note, high head position and chest and throat markings.

 -

and there is some room for error, anywhere in that circle is good!

 -

--------------------
There is more to the Hunt.. then the Horns

**TGMM Family of the Bow**


Andy Ivy

Posts: 4140 | From: African in Australia | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tradtusker
Trad Bowhunter
Member # 8659

Icon 1 posted      Profile for tradtusker   Email tradtusker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Here is a pic of the first bull i killed. This is heart shot height and you do Not want to go lower then this shot. As a rule of thumb here you want to be between the "Chest Stripe" and the "Throat patch"

 -

the result
 -

Thats the new VPA off set single bevel for those interested.

--------------------
There is more to the Hunt.. then the Horns

**TGMM Family of the Bow**


Andy Ivy

Posts: 4140 | From: African in Australia | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Steve O
Contributor 2017
Member # 503

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Steve O   Email Steve O   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Great info Andy. Thank you.

--------------------
If you are a dedicated, ethical, and responsible bowhunter, check out The Professional Bowhunters Society.

Posts: 6192 | From: Michigan | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tradtusker
Trad Bowhunter
Member # 8659

Icon 1 posted      Profile for tradtusker   Email tradtusker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
here are a few pics of whats at the front end of a Buffalo.

This Pic is one David Messiaen put up. Thanks David.
 -

Here is a rough half view of what you have, showing the hole you have with no ribs.

 -

Here is a Video of the front on shot. This is the buff I actually killed with the recurve, you can see in the video where i hit it, my shot was a little to the side but still killed the bull. But where this arrow goes is the "sweet spot"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d07meDwt04

and this is cutting the arrow out after the shot on video..except I had to pull the arrow out so you can see it in the pic.

 -

--------------------
There is more to the Hunt.. then the Horns

**TGMM Family of the Bow**


Andy Ivy

Posts: 4140 | From: African in Australia | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tradtusker
Trad Bowhunter
Member # 8659

Icon 1 posted      Profile for tradtusker   Email tradtusker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Will dig up a few more things when I get the time.

Hope that is of some interest and help to someone.

--------------------
There is more to the Hunt.. then the Horns

**TGMM Family of the Bow**


Andy Ivy

Posts: 4140 | From: African in Australia | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Blaino
2017 Contributor
Member # 7866

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Blaino   Email Blaino   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
ABSOLUTELY OUTSTANDING!!! [thumbsup]

--------------------
"It's not the trophy ,but the race. It's not the quarry ,but the chase."

Posts: 1359 | From: West Columbia, SC | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3   

Quick Reply ~ PLEASE THINK BEFORE YOU POST! - Is your post trad bowhunting related? Check the FAQ or EMAIL if you're unsure!
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Shoot On Over To:


Contact Us | Trad Gang.com © | Privacy Statement

Copyright 2003 thru 2017 ~ Trad Gang.com ©

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.1