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Author Topic: Phenolic tip overlay's
Kopper1013
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Hey guy quick question,
Last night I glued on some phenolic overlays on my glass longbow, roughed everything up with 60 grit then some hard strokes with 36 grit to get some groves. Used EA-40 for glue up after I cleaned everything with acetone. Tonight I took the c-clamps off and took her to the sander and wouldn't you know it the first one popped off, so I grabbed the other gave it a twist and it popped right off....
So
A: are you guys using EA-40 for overlay's or something else?
B: if you are using EA-40 where do ya think I went wrong?

This is only my third bow and can't remember what I did on the other two...

Thanks in advance

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Primitive archery gives yourself the maximum challenge while giving the animal the maximum chance to escape- G. Fred Asbell

Posts: 1177 | From: New York | Registered: Apr 2014  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Crittergetter
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That's odd, I've never had an issue with ea-40 .
Did you rough up the glass too? And did you wipe it down with acetone after clamped to the bow? Once I glue them I don't touch them till dry and then sand off the excess squeeze out.
Maybe the acetone penetrated the epoxy if you wiped it down after clamping?

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"I went jackalope hunting but all I saw was does!"
Luck is when preparedness meets opportunity, I just need more opportunities!

Posts: 2035 | From: East Texas | Registered: Nov 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
monterey
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How long did it cure and at what temperature? Maybe they weren't cured.

Maybe the clamps were not tight

Maybe not enough glue.

Did you spread glue on both surfaces.

Could it be sanded too rough

Just throwing out ideas.

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Monterey

Posts: 3014 | From: Colorado | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kopper1013
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I roughed both sides, applied glue both side wiped both down with acetone pre glue up and gave it 10 mins or so to dry before glue up. The bow was in 65ish degree basement for 23 hours

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Primitive archery gives yourself the maximum challenge while giving the animal the maximum chance to escape- G. Fred Asbell

Posts: 1177 | From: New York | Registered: Apr 2014  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kennym
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Another thought is , you didn’t by chance use extra hardener in the mix? That makes it not set properly.

And you mixed really well ?

Sounds like you did it right....

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Stay sharp, Kenny.

https://www.kennysarchery.com/

Posts: 12072 | From: Linneus , Mo. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Shredd
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Sounds like you prepped it right... Was there a lot of curve in your limb? Do the tip blocks match the curve of your limb? If there is a bit of curve and you clamped it too tight two things could have happened...
1. Epoxy is not to be clamped tight when used... Too tight and you squeeze it all out... I just use some spring clamps to hold my tip blocks in place...
2. If the curve of your limb does not match your block and you clamp it so tight that it flattens out, there is a lot of pressure there wanting to pop loose...

Also, when you clean up with acetone always use a paper towel or clean unused rag... A dirty rag could foul the surface...

Get the proportions right when using epoxy... When using ea-40 always err to more part-A... And mix the chit out of it... When you think you mixed it enough, mix it a little more...
For small amounts I use a pallet... For larger amounts I use a paper cup. But make sure to have flat ends on your mixing stick so you can scrape the bottom and corners of your cup...

Good Luck.. Hope you figure out what went wrong...

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stickmonkey
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I use loc-tite A324 with 7075 activator. Sets in approx 3 min and it’s permanent so make certain it’s where you want it. This is the same glue I use for my knife scales. Even without corby bolts you have to chisel the scales off if you mess up. A little goes a long way.

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Time is the crucible of a man's integrity.

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mikkekeswick
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All good points raised above.
I prefer an industrial grade superglue. 45 seconds and it is completely bombproof. As Stickmonkey says you would have to take a chisel to them to get them off!

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Crooked Stic
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Nothing wrong with using EA-40. But I have been using Gorilla blue cap super glue for years on tip overlays. prep with 60 grit. clean the composites with acetone. no acetone on the wood just air pressure to clean. Wet both surfaces and clamp.

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High on Archery.

Posts: 3169 | From: Princeton IN. | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Robertfishes
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When the overlays came off did the Smooth on stick to the phenolic or the fiberglass? Maybe the acetone needed more time to dry? 65 degrees may also be a problem, when using Smooth On for tip overlays I try to have a temp of 85-90 degrees in the area of the tips. I have a thermometer I use to check temps. 90 is hot enough to cure the glue but not hot enough to soften the already cured glue in the limb laminations. I use denatured alcohol in my shop, it drys pretty quick. 90% of my bows have Blue cap Gorilla super glue used on the tips.
Posts: 3637 | From: Ocala , Florida | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kopper1013
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Hey guys thanks for all the information, man I love this place. To answer a few question from above:
My tips arnt really curved so phenolic did lay flat without pressure. However I do always seem to be over tightening things so maybe a turn to many on the c-clamps.
I did try to stay at a 2:1 ratio on my glue maybe I used to much hardener linke Kenny mentioned.
The glue was still on limb and phenolic when they came off.
I definitely gonna try some of the above adhesives you guys mentioned just cause I don't like waiting 24 hours.
I did glue up again tonight with the EA-40 and changed things a little. I worked with a closer 1:1 ratio, mixed and mixed some more, still cleaned with acetone but waited longer and used less pressure on the clamps. So we'll see what tomorrow brings. Thank you all again!

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Primitive archery gives yourself the maximum challenge while giving the animal the maximum chance to escape- G. Fred Asbell

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Robertfishes
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Do you think you mixed 1a:2b instead of 2a:1b ? Glue on both pieces, glue joint failed? It sounds like the glue stuck to the 2 sanded pieces but sheared at the glue joint. I have had good luck using The blue cap Gorilla super glue and spring clamps. I use 1/16 inch (before sanding with 60 grit) pieces of phenolic and they are very flexible.
Posts: 3637 | From: Ocala , Florida | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Crooked Stic
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White is the resin More of it. Had a buddy mixed 2 to 1 Hardener being the 2. He was ( mis informed ) Delamed.

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High on Archery.

Posts: 3169 | From: Princeton IN. | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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