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» Trad Gang.com » Main Forums » Trad History/Collecting » Can Anyone ID These Broadheads? (Page 2)

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Author Topic: Can Anyone ID These Broadheads?
JavelinaHink
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Wade

Do these match any Bear arrows you have, this is the arrow these SOZ are on.(dark yellow & black) Sorry for the darkness of the photo's.....Hink

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[ August 09, 2009, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: JavelinaHink ]

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A TRUE FRIEND ALWAYS THINKS YOU ARE A GOOD EGG EVEN IF YOU ARE SLIGHTLY CRACKED.

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TimberlineX
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This collecting tale gets BETTER…although it may be something that only long-time collectors who have been engaged in the activity of gathering old archery stuff for 20 or 30 years will be able to fully understand.

Special Note – Because the maximum number of photos per post is eight, I’ll finish this complete post in three parts.

This all began when Wade Phillips recently posted a photo of an unusual grooved self-nock arrow. Something about the photo kicked loose an old memory in the back of my head, and I began digging through dusty arrow boxes and looking closer at arrows in bowquivers affixed to display bows around our home.

What I initially discovered were three old arrows with very similar grooved self nocks, and I posted photos of those arrows on Wade’s thread. Strictly as an afterthought, I also included a hastily-shot photo of the broadheads on those three arrows. And almost instantly I began to get private messages from broadhead collectors fascinated by and interested in those broadheads. What were they? Could two of them be among the very earliest of Zwickey’s, dating all the way back to the late 1930s?

More information and better photos of those broadheads were requested by many.

And that’s when things got even MORE INTERESTING.

I set about to better photograph the heads in question, and weigh and measure them for all concerned. But that old memory kept nagging me. Something was missing.

I returned to the dusty boxes and bows, and in due course discovered FOUR MORE arrows from the same set!

I told you that only a long-time collector with a lot of “stuff” could truly appreciate re-finding something amidst the clutter of things already gathered.

One of the newly RE-discovered arrows had no point. But the three others were glaringly equipped with what appears to be early Zwickey Barbed broadheads. You’ll recall that all of the arrows had the name of the owner or manufacturer (Walter N. Molzen of Newton, Kansas) ink-stamped on the shaft. It would appear that Mr. Molzen may have been quite an experimenter, trying a variety of then state-of-the-art broadheads on this particular set of arrows.

Here are four of the arrows from the set, with four different broadheads, all attached with some sort of black goop that apparently passed for glue in the late 1930s or early 1940s.

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Wade has already tentatively identified the broadhead on the left as a 1942 Ben Pearson 6x6.

The second head from the left appears to be a Barbed Zwickey. I’m not sure on the date. One of the barbed heads was loose and I removed it from its shaft and weighed it - 114 grains on my digital grain scale. That big head measures 2-7/16 from the end of the ferrule to the head’s tip. The barbs extend another ¼ inches back beyond the ferrule. I measured its maximum cutting width at 1-1/8 inches.

Here’s a 360-degree photo tour of that broadhead:

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TimberlineX
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The third broadhead from the left appears to be a very early Four-Blade Zwickey with the bleeder cut from the RIGHT side of the ferrule. This unique broadheads weighs just 92 grains on my scale. It measures just a bit over 2-3/16 inches from the back of the ferrule to its tip. The maximum cutting width is approximately 15/16 of an inch.

Here is a 360-degree photo look of that old 4-blade broadhead:

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TimberlineX
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The broadhead on the far right appears to be a very early Two-Blade Zwickey. This particular broadheads weighs 106 grains on my scale. It measures 2-6/16 inches from the back of the ferrule to its tip. The maximum cutting width is approximately 1 inch.

Here’s what that broadhead looks like from all sides:

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So, what do we have here with these four broadheads? Is this sufficient information to positively identify all of these heads.

And if so, what are they, when were they made and how unusual or rare might they be? Help us all learn more about these fascinating heads.

One more photo of the 4-and 2-blade Zwickeys:

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JavelinaHink
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Bill, Great find at home....its neat to find something when we've had it for years. sent you a PM too.....Hink... [archer]

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A TRUE FRIEND ALWAYS THINKS YOU ARE A GOOD EGG EVEN IF YOU ARE SLIGHTLY CRACKED.

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Earl E. Nov...mber
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WOW,, Never seen so many barbed Zwickeys in one place at one time.. They are very rare and highly collectible. Sell a few of those you could probably do Wyoming antelope hunt on the proceeds..

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Many have died for my freedom.
One has died for my soul.

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Wade Phillips
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Bill - The head at the far left of your photograph is a Ben Pearson 6x6 Sloped Shoulder, 1942, page B-13-3, ABCC #0172.000 Most common of the Pearson heads with his original long tapered ferrule.

Glad to see that you found some Barbed Zwickeys in your search through those old boxes. Yours are in very nice condition. It has been sharpened with just a little of the length being removed at the tip and a little of the steel along the cutting edges. The positive ID for it is...

Zwickey Barbed #1, 11/32, in "Broadheads 1871-1971 Identification and Rarity Guide, Second Edition", it is shown on page Z-5-4, it is ABCC #1394.000 This is the second head from the left in your photograph...

Third from left... Zwickey 4-Blade 5/16, Sloped Shoulder, page Z-7-2 ABCC #1398.000

Far right.. Zwickey 2-Blade 11/32, Sloped Shoulder, page Z-6-5 ABCC #1395.000 (# shown for Z-6-3)


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The last find of these Barbed Zwickeys 11/32" that I know of, was from California when four were found. I'd have to check the dates but it was within the past few years or so. Three of those four were sold at auction on the Internet, and the fourth one was sold privately. The three that sold at auction sold for between $1,500 and $1,800. I'd have to do some checking to give you an accurate comparison of condition. I was not involved with the sale of those Barbed Zwickeys, as two other parties asked me not to bid.

Hard to say for sure what one would sell for today in the condition of the one in your photograph, but it would likely still be a very nice sum.

Bill - Guess what I neglected to state earlier that should have been stated here is that the Barbed Zwickey is one of the "Top Ten All Time Classic Broadheads".

Most collectors consider the Barbed Zwickey to be one of the most desirable broadheads to own.

[ August 09, 2009, 07:47 AM: Message edited by: Wade Phillips ]

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"Real Sportsmanship is Fair Play" - Art Young

"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." - Will Rogers

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TimberlineX
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Wade,

Thanks for the input.

Guess I better get back into broadheads! I was an ABCC member and fairly active back when the organization first started and I was still living in Wisconsin. But I must admit that I've been distracted by bows, business and family and haven't paid much attention to broadheads in the last 15 to 20 years.

How can I get a copy of the last, greatest broadhead ID guide(s)? I've already emailed Greg at ABCC to rejoin.

Here's the lastest photo:

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Earl E. Nov...mber
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Wade, How does sharpening a die change the configuration of the part? Any die sharpening I have been involved in has been done so not to alter the die to punch clearance.

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Many have died for my freedom.
One has died for my soul.

Posts: 1964 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wade Phillips
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Ken – Thank you so much for your observation. You are correct, in my hast to write my thoughts, it was glossed over, the first part of the paragraph about the changes in the ferrule dies, did not state any of the alterations that a die might undergo to change the finished blade shape... Hopefully this text is more complete and more accurate… please feel free to critique it and offer any suggestions for improvements…

Remember as dies were used, edges wore, were chipped or broken, they were sharpened, repaired and/or altered, which resulted in some of the many different Zwickey ferrule variations that collectors recognize. The very same is true for the blade die, edges wore, were chipped or broken.

I believe that it is important to remember that both Cliff and Jack Zwickey were gifted toolmakers. As they sharpened and repaired dies, and their ideas evolved, and as they saw more efficient ways to make things, they had the ingenuity and talent to re-work the dies to get as much life as possible out of them.

It is possible that the unsharpened blade shape changed too.

That nose may or may not have always been rounded like this one.

[ August 08, 2009, 10:54 PM: Message edited by: Wade Phillips ]

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"Real Sportsmanship is Fair Play" - Art Young

"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." - Will Rogers

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Wade Phillips
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quote:
Originally posted by JavelinaHink:
Wade
The center head pictured,4-Bld you have. Is there a mark under the vent cutout were maybe the die had a broken pin for the hole, looks like a half circle. Hink

Hink - While it may appear there is a mark, there is really only rust and partial paint in that area. There is no mark at all. For some reason, could not get a good clear photograph while taking that shot. Tried to get a better one several times, but no luck.

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"Real Sportsmanship is Fair Play" - Art Young

"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." - Will Rogers

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JavelinaHink
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Thanks Wade, Thats what I figured but you never know till you ask.

How about the arrow cresting on the arrow I posted do you have any Bear arrows like that, Bear?...Hink... [archer]

Barbed Zwickey One sold privately at begining of this year also out of the state, NJ for around 1200.But don't know if I have a picture of it saved to see condition, here it is. The guy also bought a Pinned Bear & SR-100-225gr. head with it, so got a better price.
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....Hink.. [archer]

[ August 09, 2009, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: JavelinaHink ]

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A TRUE FRIEND ALWAYS THINKS YOU ARE A GOOD EGG EVEN IF YOU ARE SLIGHTLY CRACKED.

Posts: 601 | From: Ida, Michigan | Registered: Jan 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wade Phillips
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Hink – The feather cut, and cresting pattern of the arrow you posted, look similar to some 1940s Bear Arrows that I have. Sorry to say, I do not have the 1940s Bear Arrows together, so locating all of them to get a photograph might take quite a bit of time.

If I have time today, will look around for the arrows and will check the images from 10 Bear Catalogs that precede Bear's 1947 Catalog #20.

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"Real Sportsmanship is Fair Play" - Art Young

"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." - Will Rogers

Posts: 2234 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JavelinaHink
Trad Bowhunter
Member # 18937

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Thanks Wade for your time in this....for some reason in my memory bank they seem to be Bear arrows..will post a better picture in the upper posting...Hink... [archer]

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A TRUE FRIEND ALWAYS THINKS YOU ARE A GOOD EGG EVEN IF YOU ARE SLIGHTLY CRACKED.

Posts: 601 | From: Ida, Michigan | Registered: Jan 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JavelinaHink
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Posted pic of the BZ from Jersey....Hink

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A TRUE FRIEND ALWAYS THINKS YOU ARE A GOOD EGG EVEN IF YOU ARE SLIGHTLY CRACKED.

Posts: 601 | From: Ida, Michigan | Registered: Jan 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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