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I was talking to an anti-hunting friend yesterday (yes we can coexist)and the conversion got around to hunting, ethics and whats fair and so on. We usually try to avoid such topics (hunting in general) as we never can agree on such things. But this time it just came up and I must admit she said some things that really got me a thinkin. I started huntin big game 10 years ago and what I do and how I do it has changed a great deal in that time. This ain't a confessional so I won't go into detail, but let me just say that I have done some things in the field that make me feel pretty pathetic. I mention this to point out that I like to think I have realised my wrongs and done my best to mend my ways. I felt I had become an ethical hunter. But after talking to my friend I am not so sure. One of her first questions was why do I hunt? I told her because man is a predator no different than a Wolf, Bear, Cougar etc. And this is where she stumped me. "Does a Wolf use a tree stand? Or artificial scents and calls? And what about binoculars and camouflage?" Hmmmmm. Well I honestly couldn't think of a single thing to say to that. And I still can't. And you know, perhaps she has a point. What do you folks think?
Posts: | Registered: Jul 2008
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My advantage over the prey is my superior intellect. Any way I use that in the field is fine with me.
Posts: 281 | From: Central NC | Registered: Dec 2007
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Cave men,Indians and a lot of people before us used the same methods and at least we dont keep them penned up and shoot them in the head with a nail gun.Just like people before us had farms and raised animals for food.The Indians didn't build condos and strip malls either so why do we that takes a greater toll on animals than what we do at least we eat it for nourishment. Did you ever hear of PETV(people for the ethical treatment of vegetables) nobody goes to protest how a carrot is handled...LOL
-------------------- Some people live an entire lifetime and wonder if they have ever made a difference in the world, but the Marines don’t have that problem. —President Ronald Reagan Posts: 7953 | From: NJ to GA back to NJ =Lost ;) | Registered: Sep 2009
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Touchy situation. You dont want to offend your friend, or put a bad spin on hunting.
I think if predators could use weapons(or gadgets), they would. I have seen footage of chimps using branches to club other animals for prey, get termites out of mounds with sticks.
That being said, I often like to inform antis of how much I love the animals I hunt. I point out that my purchase of lisences and such benefit the "herd" greatly, as does decreasing it's numbers. I also tell them it isnt about "the kill" for me, that simply being surrounded by nature is enough for me.
You could also point out that each predator has a very different style of hunting. The cat stalks, the dogs chase, etc. They are all a means to an end. We as humans are able to define HOW we hunt, be it gun, bow, ground or treestand.
I wish you luck and remember to stay civil. My best hunting buddy and I first met over a heated debate about hunting. He was an anti. Imagine how great it was to watch him make a perfect shot on a six pointer years later...
-------------------- "I lost arrows and didnt even shoot at a rabbit" Charlie after the Island of Trees. -Jamie Posts: 4418 | From: Coxsackie, NY | Registered: Jan 2007
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I would say no, a wolf does not use a treestand but will get up high where he can locate his prey making it the same effect. Wolves have superior eyesight, to give us the same affect we use binoculars. A wolfs fur allows him to blend in with his surroundings (camoflauge). Wolves will hunt in packs which will cause a deer to possibly move in a certain direction, similar to our artificial scents which bring a deer to a certain area. So I would say man and wolves means of hunting are similar. Just my opinion. I would just agree to disagree with her.
Posts: 371 | From: Indiana | Registered: Sep 2009
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If I can be honest (& in my bluntness, possibly rude. I'll apologise in advance as I mean you no disrespect) I think you gave her a bloody stupid answer & you've put yourself in an unarguable situation. As a hunter married to an anti-hunting vegetarian (you're right about the coexistence! ) I've always tried to be 100% honest when Jules has asked me why I hunt. I never, ever give her the generic 'Because it's natural, Man is a hunter' answer. I try & explain that, basically, I like to eat wild, happy, free-ranging meat. I enjoy the experience of going & getting that meat. I take pleasure & satisfaction in effectively being able to kill an animal that'll support my nutritional needs/wants. I love my time in the outdoors pursuing my quarry, be it deer, pigs, rabbits, whatever.... I would rather eat a squirrel that I hunted & shot myself than a store-bought, factory farmed fillet steak. Her choice is to not eat meat, my choice is to not put the responsibility of killing the meat that I eat on someone elses shoulders. There's a lot, lot more to my answers/arguments than this, hell, I could probably write a book, but that's the basic outline.
-------------------- "I came into this world, kicking, screaming & covered in someone else's blood. I have no problem going out the same way"
PBS & TBT Member
>>---TGMM, Family of the Bow---> Posts: 4796 | From: Tullahoma, TN | Registered: Apr 2006
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Yes it was a bit of a touchy conversation and it never got heated, but it sure felt odd being stumped like that. Thanks for your thoughts, perhaps I will be able to give an appropriate answer next time.
Posts: | Registered: Jul 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Focusource: My advantage over the prey is my superior intellect. Any way I use that in the field is fine with me.
I agree. The smartest predator is the one who gets a full belly at the end of the day.
Posts: 1352 | From: London, Ohio | Registered: Nov 2009
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lpcjon2 : Don't laugh at carrot abuse ! I saw a snowman at grocery store picking his nose !!
Hey - in regards to anti-hunters - you do no not owe them a reason for why you hunt.
The rain forests are being cut down to grow soy; herbicides contain chemicals that are dangerous byproducts: and one drop on your skin can kill you. So they put it into herbicides and spread the danger out; and that stuff goes into pesticides too. In order for a person to grow food; nature has to be displaced. Insects cannot live there; birds eat poisoned insects and die.
In order for something to live on this planet: something has to die. That is how it works. If your friend is confused over this; then just admit they are confused.
Native Americans used wolf hides to sneak up on bison; and the rumor that the wolves were all car killed - well I started that rumor: and its not true.
Ishi went without eating meat and took off smelly clothes and heck- we have always had to be sneaky to get close enough to shoot an arrow.
If you hunt game; you can follow the game; but when you plant something; you have to stay and defend it. Which came first; war or farming?
A lot of us do not use treestands; or camo; or artificial scents-- ask your friend if she is promoting our sponsors here
-------------------- THE VOICES HAVEN'T BOTHERED ME SINCE I STARTED POKING THEM WITH A Q-TIP. Posts: 2556 | From: North Fork , Idaho | Registered: Feb 2004
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What, I'm supposed to go out and use half as many legs as a wolf, run down my prey, without benefit of a pack, hurl myself at a hamstring and hang on with my undersized canines?
Does your friend think that the Native Americans were wrong in using atlatls, then bows, and then firearms to harvest their meat? OK, so we go back to running the herds off of cliffs, or hazing them into pens for clubbing.
Is it fairer to domesticate animals so that they will blandly hang around my house and allow me to slaughter them? Am I allowed to slaughter them with a knife, or must I use my teeth?
Or am I supposed to go vegan? That opens a whole 'nother kettle of worms, as vegans seem to believe that plants do not have the same status as animals, and so are less deserving of living out their lives undisturbed and unslaughtered. Life is life, and life feeds on life. There is no "guiltless" existence on this planet, and so I accept that this is the way the world is made and I will play my part in it.
On the other hand, your friend seems to have the same natural dislike of gadgetry that we trad archers do. It is just that the tolerance level is adjusted a tad differently. Let your friend accompany you on a stumping foray in your hunting grounds, see firsthand what you do and how challenging it is, and then sleep on it. Without a formal discussion of the outing, maybe you will both agree to tacitly back off from the disagreement, preserving the peace and the friendship, though it appears to me as though your friendship is sound and secure.
Lemme think about this, I am sure I can come up with something more coherent in the morning. Killdeer
-------------------- Long, long afterward, in an oak I found the arrow, still unbroke; And the song, from beginning to end, I found again in the heart of a friend.
~Longfellow
TGMM Family Of The Bow Posts: 15028 | From: Fibber McGee's Closet, VA | Registered: Mar 2003
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Justin I think you need a bundle of copy paper and another ink cartridge and print this stuff out so you have a reference manual for your next talk with the anti...LOL
-------------------- Some people live an entire lifetime and wonder if they have ever made a difference in the world, but the Marines don’t have that problem. —President Ronald Reagan Posts: 7953 | From: NJ to GA back to NJ =Lost ;) | Registered: Sep 2009
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) I've always tried to be 100% honest when Jules has asked me why I hunt. I never, ever give her the generic 'Because it's natural, Man is a hunter' answer. I try & explain that, basically, I like to eat wild, happy, free-ranging meat. I enjoy the experience of going & getting that meat. I take pleasure & satisfaction in effectively being able to kill an animal that'll support my nutritional needs/wants. I love my time in the outdoors pursuing my quarry, be it deer, pigs, rabbits, whatever.... I would rather eat a squirrel that I hunted & shot myself than a store-bought, factory farmed fillet steak. Her choice is to not eat meat, my choice is to not put the responsibility of killing the meat that I eat on someone elses shoulders. There's a lot, lot more to my answers/arguments than this, hell, I could probably write a book, but that's the basic outline.![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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