3Rivers Archery



INFO: Trad Archery for Bowhunters

memo








CLICK HERE TO LEAP TO THE
2017 ST. JUDE AUCTION FORUMS


Trad Gang.com Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
MY PROFILE | directory login | register | search | FAQ | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Trad Gang.com » Main Forums » PowWow » Dr. Ashby Report Question (Page 1)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!   This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   
Author Topic: Dr. Ashby Report Question
Steve O
Contributor 2016
Member # 503

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Steve O   Email Steve O   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I attended Dr. Ashby's presentation at Kalamazoo last weekend. Lots of good information!

One thing he mentioned that I wanted to look up and read more about was his comment on arrow weight and penetration.

If I understood him correctly, he said IF your arrow weighs over 650g and you are using a quality single bevel broadhead, you will penetrate a water buffalo (rib?) with a bow as low as 45#, 100% of the time. I believe almost 20% of his test shots were with a 43# or 45# recurve. He said it is extremely rare to have a 100# success rate in any field study, but this was the case.

I went to the Ashby Forum, but the amount of info there is substantial. Does anyone remember what report this part of the study is in so I don't have to go thru them all?

--------------------
If you are a dedicated, ethical, and responsible bowhunter, check out The Professional Bowhunters Society.

Posts: 6126 | From: Michigan | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Mike Vines
Contributor 2015
Member # 7379

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Mike Vines   Email Mike Vines   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I too was there, and that was a huge amount of info to digest in that amount of time. Yes you are correct in your figures you mentioned, atleast that is the same thing I remember hearing as well. It opened my eyes quite a bit. Wish I could help you further.

--------------------
Professional Bowhunters Society Regular Member

U.S. ARMY Military Police

Michigan Longbow Association Life Member/Past President

Posts: 5308 | From: Michigan | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
smoke1953
Contributor 2014
Member # 11344

Icon 1 posted      Profile for smoke1953   Email smoke1953   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
He also stressed for maximum penetration with at least 650 gr that it is important for the weight to be distributed FOC as much as possible and have the razor edge creating the lever action that only occurs with a single bevel design. That lever action creating the splitting effects on bone was something to see as well as the "starburst" effect through soft material with the exception of the lung material. I have never used single bevel however after seeing the live presentation I was convinced to give it a try. I did notice that they filmed the presentation and hopefully that will show up somewhere soon. I believe it is worth viewing.
Posts: 1205 | From: Cambridge, Wisconsin | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JimB
Contributor 2017
Member # 17284

Icon 1 posted      Profile for JimB   Email JimB   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The bow was a Bear Formula Silver,40# at his draw length of 27"
2008 Update Part I
http://www.tradgang.com/ashby/2008update1.pdf
Part 2 compares those arrows from the 40# bow to "normal" arrows out of the heavier bows.Some pretty interesting stuff.
http://www.tradgang.com/ashby/2008update2.pdf

Posts: 3788 | From: Montana | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Steve O
Contributor 2016
Member # 503

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Steve O   Email Steve O   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks Jim!

--------------------
If you are a dedicated, ethical, and responsible bowhunter, check out The Professional Bowhunters Society.

Posts: 6126 | From: Michigan | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JimB
Contributor 2017
Member # 17284

Icon 1 posted      Profile for JimB   Email JimB   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That stuff is tough to wade through.If you go to tuffhead.com and go to their links on the reports,in addition to say,2008 Update,Part 2,it will give a short title also which doesn't tell you everything but it does help sort them out a little.

Those are a couple interesting updates.I was always hoping he would do more work with the 40# bow,especially on deer sized game.

Posts: 3788 | From: Montana | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Hud
Contributor 2017
Member # 9639

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Hud   Author's Homepage   Email Hud   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I seem to recall he advocated an FOC of 29%, or higher. Pretty hard to achieve on wood arrows. I plan to try out some footed, tapered woodies with 200 grains up front. It will be interesting to see, how much they drop over 20-30 yds, with my 66# and 70# longbows.

--------------------
TGMM Family of the Bow

Posts: 2069 | From: Ridgefield, Wa. | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Shakes.602
Contributor 2014
Member # 4176

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Shakes.602   Email Shakes.602   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Penetration is All Well and Good, but You have to get it in the CORRECT SPOT to do that kind of Damage, as I am sure you all are aware of. Happy Hunting Brothers!! [archer]

--------------------
"Carpe Cedar" Seize the Arrow!
"Life doesn't get Simpler; it gets Shorter and Turns in Smaller Circles." Dean Torges
"Faith is to Prayer what the Feather is to the Arrow" Thomas Morrow
"Ah Think They Should Outlaw Them Thar Crossbows" A Hunting Pal

Posts: 5567 | From: Crawfordsville, Indiana | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Troy Breeding
Assoc Sponsor
Member # 33855

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Troy Breeding   Email Troy Breeding       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Most, if not about all of the UEFOC arrows Ed or I have been able to get were carbon. This is mainly due to the light GPI found with carbon. Still, after picking up some of the woodie weights I feel EFOC can be obtained with wood. At this point in time I'm not sure UEFOC will ever be achieved with wood, but something in the high 20's looks possible. I'm going to try combining a 200gr woodie weight with a 225 or 300gr point and see what is possible with wood. It will be a heavy arrow for sure.

Troy

Posts: 441 | From: Ohio | Registered: Apr 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
YORNOC
Associate Sponsor - Contributor 2017
Member # 20573

Icon 1 posted      Profile for YORNOC   Email YORNOC   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Be careful with the buff boys....numbers dont matter to an angry behemoth. Shoot as heavy as you can and have big bore backup if possible.
I've shot two bison, and they dont compare to the cape and water buff from what I'm told..
Dont skimp, dont cut corners. Listen to your guide.
I know this is more about penetration and single bevel stuff, I'd just hate to see anybody read this and say "oh yeah, 45# is plenty to kill buff" and think all is good and safe. [Eek!] [scared]

--------------------
David M. Conroy

Posts: 3482 | From: Bellingham, Massachusetts | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Troy Breeding
Assoc Sponsor
Member # 33855

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Troy Breeding   Email Troy Breeding       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
David,

Your right about making it understood that just because you have the setup that will handle heavy bone doesn't mean that anything walking is now in your kill zone.

I do my best to make it clear on this point. I promote heavy, high UEFOC arrows for helping when that "oh crap" shot happens.

From what Ed has told me he feels the use of heavy, high UEFOC arrows in light weight bows helps give that shooter the advantage when heavy bone is hit in normal size game.

I used to never hunt anything tougher than deer with a bow under 55#. Since moving up to heavy, high UEFOC arrows I feel I have a better than average chance of success on anything smaller than bison that walks in the US.

Troy

Posts: 441 | From: Ohio | Registered: Apr 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
calgarychef
Trad Bowhunter
Member # 12551

Icon 1 posted      Profile for calgarychef   Email calgarychef   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Listening to the guide is a good idea, especially if they have trad experience. Their experience might not be worth a hill of beans if they have been guiding compounders shooting light arrows out of 80# bows. In that case they wouldn't know that a 60 pound bow will work.
Posts: 1254 | From: canada | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Steve O
Contributor 2016
Member # 503

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Steve O   Email Steve O   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Troy, I wish I could have stayed to see your part of the presentation, but needed to get back to my booth. I am a big believer that momentum is more important than kinetic energy, and it was excellent to see that quantified in Dr. Ashby's graphs.

--------------------
If you are a dedicated, ethical, and responsible bowhunter, check out The Professional Bowhunters Society.

Posts: 6126 | From: Michigan | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
SERGIO VENNERI
Trad Bowhunter
Member # 1441

Icon 1 posted      Profile for SERGIO VENNERI   Email SERGIO VENNERI   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
What David and Tracy said!!
Posts: 1810 | From: Timmins, ontario Canada | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
YORNOC
Associate Sponsor - Contributor 2017
Member # 20573

Icon 1 posted      Profile for YORNOC   Email YORNOC   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Troy Breeding:
David,

Your right about making it understood that just because you have the setup that will handle heavy bone doesn't mean that anything walking is now in your kill zone.

I do my best to make it clear on this point. I promote heavy, high UEFOC arrows for helping when that "oh crap" shot happens.

From what Ed has told me he feels the use of heavy, high UEFOC arrows in light weight bows helps give that shooter the advantage when heavy bone is hit in normal size game.

I used to never hunt anything tougher than deer with a bow under 55#. Since moving up to heavy, high UEFOC arrows I feel I have a better than average chance of success on anything smaller than bison that walks in the US.

Troy

I am with you Troy, and shoot FOC myself for everything. Devoured Ed's reports myself and love that the info is there for everyone. Just felt the need to add a bit of caution. [thumbsup]

--------------------
David M. Conroy

Posts: 3482 | From: Bellingham, Massachusetts | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   

Quick Reply ~ PLEASE THINK BEFORE YOU POST! - Is your post trad bowhunting related? Check the FAQ or EMAIL if you're unsure!
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Shoot On Over To:


Contact Us | Trad Gang.com © | Privacy Statement

Copyright 2003 thru 2017 ~ Trad Gang.com ©

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.1