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» Trad Gang.com » Main Forums » PowWow » Howard Hill "Swing Draw" (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Howard Hill "Swing Draw"
Bakes168
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Last night I watched John Schulz's video "Hitting 'Em Like Howard Hill", it was quite enjoyable and I learned much. In the video he emphasized that Howard didn't draw with his bow arm already up and pointing the at target, saying it was better to bring the arm up and draw all in one fluid motion because that's the way you'll probably need to shoot while hunting.

I tried this tonight while practicing, while it does feel good and a bit more natural I cannot believe that this would be a better method for hunting, especially hunting from a treestand or ground blind. Obviously drawing the bow is usually the most critical part of taking a shot at a deer because all that movement will give you away. Why would anyone want to compound the issue by adding the movement of bringing your bow arm up from your side?

I know that when I have an animal closing the distance I already have my bow arm up, extended and pointed in the critter's direction, fingers on the string and ready to draw. I've still been busted a couple times while making my draw...

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"A hunt based only on trophies taken falls short of what the ultimate goal should be...time to commune with your inner soul as you share the outdoors with the birds, animals, and fish that live there"
-Fred Bear

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Posts: 574 | From: Grand Haven, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Stumpkiller
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That is my most "natural" method. Swing the extended bow arm up as the arrow is drawn.

But I also use the push-pull with the bow up if I have had the time to see a deer coming in slowly.

It's good to have choices that can be used to fit the situation at hand.

Draw slow, shoot slow. Draw fast, shoot fast. The shot has a rhythm.

Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

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Charlie P. }}===]> A.B.C.C.

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Posts: 4057 | From: Upstate NY | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
LBR
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Bakes, I agree. WAAYYYY too much movement to get a shot at pretty much any game animal other than a fish around here. There's a reason there's never been another Howard Hill. Besides his spending countless hours working on form, he was also a natural athlete.

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Steelhead
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Their more than one way to shoot a bow and I think while hunting you may find that you should be able to make many kinds ofshots.Kneeling,sitting,twisted at the waste one way or the other.Slower more methodical shots or quick shots flying by the seat of your pants.

That method works great when things get hot fast and you need to shoot quickly.Or when wing shooting or shooting at moving game.

An animal may get nervous because it smells you or for some other reason and is ready to bolt and it turns its head the other way and you shoot quickly.Thier will be other moments if you hunt a lot where a quick shot with the swing draw will be the only option.I have killed a few nice bucks that way.I did practice it a lot and it paid off for me.Both those deer were killed on the ground with no blind.It was fast and almost unconscious shooting.

You wont always be in position due to hunting scenarious in the real world to be methodical and deliberate in your shooting.Being able to execute like Shultz does in a split second will put game in the freezer in certain circumstances.

He was very fluid and natural looking in his shooting.It was not snap shooting.He was in total control and practiced religiously to attain his degree of accuracy with that shot process.Hill was a good teacher and he was a prized pupil of that methodology.

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frank bullitt
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I have shot many animals, deer, squirrels, rabbits, raccoons, this way.

Most, as they are moving by my position, or stand.

The situation will dictate, the shot.

Posts: 2347 | From: mighty wabash river,in. | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
toddster
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If I may, one thing that you are missing is the change in times. Though mankind has been hunting from tree's likely since we realized the safety of it. Keep in mind that Mr. Hill would stalk his game. I have not heard of any story of him in a tree (except in Tembo waiting on the Crocodile). Even Mr. Schulz, would stalk the game, and to my knowledge only hunted from a "stand" one time. When you stalk your game, the raising/drawing of the bow is fluid and natural and is rarely seen by game you have decided to harvest, especially moving game. Mr. Bear favored the "push/pull" method and used ground blind hunting a lot. I have found from my experience's, that even when hunting from stand, when a deer comes in and decide to shoot, I fluidly and slowly come up and take the shot, which works better for me. If you think about it, it is the draw that makes bowhunting harder, not getting the bow up (if done right). With this method, once the movement (if spotted), the shot cycle is complete and arrow on way. Just my two cents.
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Roadkill
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Takes a lot of practice to be truly proficient. Archery students would shoot out the lights if i had them do that. Basic skills are easier with push pull style.. that said, in the field, one do as must must

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goodness of woodness, Semper Fidelis. Molon labe

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ChuckC
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Swing draw in and of itself does not mean you have to release "on contact". I have used my version of a swing draw to shoot deer from the ground at 6 and 8 paces this year. I just do it when their vision is eclipsed by brush or a tree, part of the plan.
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pavan
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I use a variety of swing draws, sometimes a swing/spread draw. I am hunting with a white bow. I had 4 deer less than 20 yards from me with no cover between me and them, I drew on an 8 point buck that was a bit further away and to the side. I saw that I had too many branches as I was doing the straight back finish to the draw and let down. The deer in front of me did not spook. The doe looked but then went back to browsing the picked corn. My normal 25 yards and under shot tempo is one second from the beginning of the draw to release, I aim longer on longer shots. Perhaps it is a shot timing thing, but I do not have problems of deer busting while I draw. I only hunt on the ground. I have taken several deer standing with my back tight up against a larger tree. It is possible to shoot accurately without leaning away from the tree using the swing draw. It does alter where the secondary 'imaginary' aiming point comes, but with prior practice, it is totally possible. It is also possible to do a 50/50 spread draw from that position. Perhaps all a deer sees is a lump on the the tree and it helps if that tree has a buddy or two, but lean away from the tree, the deer will see the back grounds change and be alerted. Iowa deer are masters at motion detection, one can go as slow as he can in the draw and a deer can pick up the smallest waggle of a bow or the turning of of the body or head. There are certainly no guarantees, but it is a big help with shot timing issues. For example, if it takes one 5 seconds to get off a shot, but a deer's head is either turned or behind a tree for two seconds. Many will say that is not a shooting opportunity, but as Schulz demonstrated the slower shots are one second tempo shots, a two second opportunity is a shooting opportunity with that tempo.

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Pavan

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monterey
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Hill and Schulz videos show them drawing and shooting very quickly but it doesn't have to be done fast. When Hill did some of his trick shots he slowed down.

Give a kid a bow and teach them the basics of stance, anchor and release then let them shoot for a couple days. In the end, they will be doing the swing draw..... unless something else is promoted.

If you learned to shoot as a kid with minimal instruction, you probably do a swing draw without thinking.

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Monterey

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pavan
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Hill and Schulz are not alone. Jim Belcher shows that it can be done with a variety of bows. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62vrkJFXbco
This guy does alright with it as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJazvAm1PAM&feature=youtu.be

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Pavan

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bucknut
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I guess I use a hybrid draw. I get pointed in the direction of the animal and raise my bow arm pushing and pulling all at the same time, anchor for a couple seconds and it's gone.

I'm no Howard Hill but it works well for me!!

John

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jsweka
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I shoot with a swing draw and just killed a buck off the ground a couple weeks ago. No treestand, no blind, 11 steps away. It can be done.

Here's the story if you're interested.
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=156169;p=1#000000

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>>>---->TGMM<----<<<<

Posts: 3466 | From: Howard Pennsylvania | Registered: Aug 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
K.S.TRAPPER
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I've been shooting this way for several years now and killed many deer and turkeys from stands, blinds and stalking. Not once has it cost me an animal or have I been busted while drawing my bow. [dunno]

Tracy

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You really haven't hunted the old fashion way until you've done it from one of these Indian houses.(The Tipi) "Glenn ST. Charles"

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The Nocking Point
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I sometimes shoot using the swing draw,sometimes full blown and sometimes shortened up some.All according to situation.Have killed quite a few animals this way.
Terry

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Posts: 2684 | From: Log cabin in Osage county Oklahoma | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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