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OL that makes alot of sense...thank you..I will try again and from what I was shooting the other day..my groups were within 3" of each other so even if the shaft is slighty stiff I can get away with good flight and vice or versa....man I gots lots of thinking to do now..LOL thank you everyone
-------------------- TGMM Family of the Bow Posts: 1759 | From: Exeter, New Hampshire | Registered: Mar 2003
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Is your form exactly the same while shooting canted or uncanted? You probably know already but a small change in ones form can make huge changes when tuning, espically with a bare shaft. My bow hand seems to slide a touch more to the outside when canting the bow, which is the way I shoot. The position of your head can have an impact as well as related to the torque your string hand is putting on the string. Be sure to tilt your head to compensate for the canted bow to keep the relation the same. Does any of that make sense?!
-------------------- "Share what you know and know what you share" Posts: 59 | From: White River Lake, Tx, | Registered: Jan 2006
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Razorbak, If they are grouping that close, back up, the further away, the more it tells you plus what you are looking for is slightly weak and nock point high will be the most forgiving.....O.L.
-------------------- ---Six NAA/FITA National and World flight records.---- Posts: 2601 | From: Roswell, NM | Registered: Mar 2003
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O.L. Is it just me or do bare shaft carbons tend to have a noticeable little waggle come off the bow. I use your method and the bare shafts group with fletched and even stick in the target straight, but seem to have a little nock left kick (I'm right handed) coming off the bow before they straighten out. It's disconcerting, but I guess if I get the other results I shouldn't complain. Could also be a lack of concentration with me trying to pick up arrow flight with my non-dominant eye.
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O.L. - what defines "slightly weak" spine, i.e., how do you know it is only slightly weak vs. to weak. I've often heard that you should tune slightly weak spine but never really understood how to quantify this.
As always, your comments are very informative.
-------------------- "Do what you can, with what you have, where you are" T. Roosevelt
Michigan Traditional Bowhunters TGMM "Family of the Bow" Posts: 524 | From: West Olive, Michigan | Registered: Nov 2005
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last arrow...keep taking away tip weight until a stiff indication is shown, then work back to a perfect/weak indication...
Posts: 165 | From: Adirondacks | Registered: Nov 2005
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Ken999 pretty much got it. For example if 145's group right in there, 125's better shoot stiff and 160's weak. If a fellow is going to cut the shafts, the same would apply, verify with point weight before cutting! In the example above start cutting 1/2" at a time to dial in the 160's.
Blane, depends on how good your groups are and at what distance. If the bare shafts tend to group low and right (rt handed shooter) with the middles say 6" apart at 20 yds, but your groups are 6", that's not bad. If your groups are 2" but middles 6" apart, that needs some work. Mostly if the groups overlap about 1/2 way, that' s pretty good.
Olddogrib, I'd look for something like arrow nocks too tight or try putting another nock set below your arrow. I have to do that, somehow during my release I'll slide the arrow down a bit giving me up/down flyers. If you can get them in the target "straight", might very well be they are too stiff and hitting the shelf/riser giving you that left kick?? Have you tried a heavier point?? If they are stiff to the point of bumping the riser, it might take a lot of weight. ....O.L.
-------------------- ---Six NAA/FITA National and World flight records.---- Posts: 2601 | From: Roswell, NM | Registered: Mar 2003
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Lots of good info. I bare shaft first then when I'm close take some fletched field points and some 3 blade snuffers fletched and see how they shoot. The 3 blades always seem to tell me what I need to do. Specially regarding nock point. SL
Posts: 706 | From: Boerne, Texas | Registered: Mar 2003
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You bet SL! I seldom bare shaft, I go straight the big BH's and can always drop to smaller/narrower later if they are the same weight. Two real godd reasons to bare shaft, if you are setting "target" arrows you aren't going to put BH's on, or if you are commited to one weight BH and don't want to buy more. Many folks don't have several dozen assorted BH's laying around to tune with and some are darned sure expensive! Bare shafting first will get a person in the ball park ....O.L.
-------------------- ---Six NAA/FITA National and World flight records.---- Posts: 2601 | From: Roswell, NM | Registered: Mar 2003
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As I've gotten older, I've gotten lazier (and probably dumber instead of wiser) so I rarely bother with bare shafting. Even better is not having to spine the hex pine shafts for the stiff side.
All my longbows are 50#'s and I've found that straight, 60#+ spined hex pines and 145-190 grain points and broadheads, and 6" semi-helical trad banana feathers, provide good flying arras provided I do my part with aiming and releasing. Proper arrow aiming alignment, ala Jim Ploen's article, and heavy spined 550-600 grain arras - worx best fer me.
Oh, yeah - canting the bow is a total requirement for instinctive barebow hunting/archery - IMO.
Posts: 8858 | From: NJ | Registered: Mar 2003
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As far as I can tell...I keep my body position the exact same way when I cant...very consistant my buddies say...but when I shoot straight up and down I keep my head more in line but I draw to the exact same point OL.. Im already shooting at 17 yards..how much further should I go...I try for the slight weak and high and the only way I can get that is by shooting straight up and down and when canting..I get stiff arrows..thats whats frustrating...thats what I feel is frustrating for us short draw guys who shoots the heavier weights and shorter draw..LOL
-------------------- TGMM Family of the Bow Posts: 1759 | From: Exeter, New Hampshire | Registered: Mar 2003
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Ok, I've got to ask a few questions as well. I am new to the carbons and love them. I bare shaft tune and can usually get a broadhead to do the bare shaft thing out to 20 yards or more. I've been reading nock point high. I always just set my nock poing to wear the bare shaft is sitting even along side a fletched shaft in the target. I actually keep a bare shaft around to tell me what the heck is going on with my arrow flight at times. Why do I want a high nock point, and how is it more forgiving?????
Posts: 125 | From: Libby, Montana | Registered: Dec 2005
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Tree Ghost, I sure hope you're not shooting BH's bare shaft?? If you are and getting away with it, they must be very narrow?? Got any "marks" on the outside of your arrow shelf?? That's where the arrow hits when you get a poor release. Slightly string nock high will help avoid that contact but won't hurt good release accuracy. You're still going to miss with a poor release, just not as far.
Razorbak, you are basing that on shaft angle are you not?? Or relation to the "spot"? Ignore that, just go by the relationship of the groups. Your fletched shats are the refference point, not the spot. How far can you keep fletched shafts on a paper plate?? The FITA folks bare shaft out to 90 meters. That flight shooting stuff, I might as well be shooting bare shafts, fletching 1/2"x1/4" dove feathers!
Yep Rob, us old buzzards can just tell what they need! ....O.L.
-------------------- ---Six NAA/FITA National and World flight records.---- Posts: 2601 | From: Roswell, NM | Registered: Mar 2003
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OL...I see the shaft flying somewhat straight or slight nock left all the way to the spot on the target and the angle that it hits. my fletched shafts I can keep them on a spot and keep the bare and fletched shafts 3 to 5" at about 17 yards and this is with a bow canted and hitting nock left for the bare shaft that is and the fletch shaft flys pretty darn good.. and no more room to shoot unless I head out side but with high winds and snow drifts I didnt want to frustrate myself any more than I already have and 90 meters...forget that..I cant even see the target at that distance...LOL
-------------------- TGMM Family of the Bow Posts: 1759 | From: Exeter, New Hampshire | Registered: Mar 2003
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....O.L.
