posted
I found this thread a couple of weeks ago, and after practicing Joel's system, it's turned my shooting around.
I didn't have a problem coming to anchor, but I did have some trouble loosing the string earlier than I wanted.
Without trying to over analyze it, the system was simple to learn. Subconsciously aiming while at anchor, along with using the mantra (keep pulling-keep pulling-keep pulling) is the key to getting to my trigger, (fletching to nose) and is where my concentration goes. I talked to Joel about this concentration level and what he said made sense. When in a more stressful situation such as shooting in front of a crowd, or the shot of a lifetime on a trophy game animal, the mantra needs to be more aggressive. Two things that are key for me - the trigger has to be non anticipated, and not loosing the string before conciously getting to the trigger.... in Joel's words, letting the gremlin tell you when to shoot. The aiming of the shot will take care of itself.
Posts: 257 | From: Monroe Ga. | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Where can I get a sear to attach to a tab? Can you make one easy enough. What about something for a glove. I get a lot of tension when I use the pinky nail and thumb nail. I have also though of maybe a ring on my pinky finger, further down is where my thumb sits comfortably. Brandon
Posts: 30 | From: Oregon | Registered: Oct 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have a question for Joel Turner, or anyone who has been down this road.
I've tried the feather to the nose method, and for several sessions, it worked pretty well. But then, the old nemesis - the involuntary release - came back, with a vengeance! I've had the same experience with a clicker - it works for awhile, but then the uncontrolled release just overpowers it.
Is there any way that the nemesis can be tamed enough even to allow me to use the feather to the nose technique or a conventional clicker?
Thanks, Dan Jones
Posts: 10 | From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Aug 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think Joel is on vacation for a week. You might still be able to get him on his phone.
Dan, you have to really use the mantra and not think about the feather touching the nose or the clicker going off. All you should be thinking about is pulling. Use the mantra keep pulling,keep pulling,keep pulling. Concentrate all your attention to pulling and when the feather touches you will shoot.
Call Joel, he can explain it really well. His number has been posted several times.
Posts: 397 | From: washington | Registered: Jan 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I agree with cch. When I first started using Joel's technique it worked great but after several months I was releasing early and getting the heebie jeebies all over again so I called Joel and taked to him. I had missed the most important part - concentration on the pulling not the trigger. Once I stopped thinking about the trigger it all came together. Now I concentrate so much on the pulling and the mantra that sometimes I can't even remember the feather touching but the release is a surprise.
Posts: 482 | From: Grand Haven, Michigan | Registered: Nov 2009
| IP: Logged |
Please give me a call so I can you back on the right path. Cch said it perfectly but you must understand the WHY behind it all. 253-686-3623
JT
-------------------- Joel Turner IRONMIND Archery Systems Masters of the Barebow 4 2x World Elk Calling Champion / Pro Division Posts: 100 | From: Eatonville WA | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Joel Turner: Thank you for the offer to call you. And thank you for all of your kind and generous efforts to help archers over the terrible target panic problem. It is truly a curse that hangs over archery. Unfortunately, I am hard of hearing so I try to avoid telephone conversations.
Cch:Flingblade: Thank you also for your replies to my post. It may be that my level of concentration is inadequate. However, I have never been very successful at attempts to count after reaching full draw, or running through a mental checklist, or repeating a mantra. Like other new things, I can do it for a time, but then it seems to be overpowered or erased by the involuntary release. I'd also say that my best shots occur when I'm not consciously aware of thinking anything while shooting. If I casually shoot an arrow across a field, letting it land where it may, it will be a relaxed, effortless shot. Tell me to shoot that arrow only after going through a 9 point mental checklist culminating with a tightening of the rhomboid muscles, and I'll probably release at 3/4's draw - or, worse, freeze at partial draw. However, I'll try to think anew about concentration.
The crux of my problem is a target. I can draw, hold at anchor and release beautifully if I'm not aiming at and trying to hit a specific target. I can do draw, hold and let down exercises to a fare thee well, and I can shoot nicely at a blank bale, but if I'm faced with a target and have the intent to shoot, WHOOSH - the arrow is gone. I've never had any transfer effect whatsoever from doing those exercises.
I suspect that the escape from my panic lies in letting go of the idea that the success of a shot is measured by where the arrow impacts a target, but I've found that much, much easier said than done.
Thanks again to all. Dan Jones
Posts: 10 | From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Aug 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
hey dan have you tried the master of barebow bridge program? i started closer then 5 yards i started where the arrow cleared the bow by 6 inches or so and when you shoot 12 shots no problem move back to 5 yards do it again and continue if you make a single mistake you HAVE to start over took me about a week of doing this 3X a day to burn it into my subconcious now everyshot feels like i rushed it but if i video tape myself im holding for 2 seconds my release has gotten alot better and the amount of back tension has increased and i recently just scored 218 on a 28 target 3d course due to it im up from mid 140's down to 218
-------------------- any animal you see posted that i say i personally harvested was eaten
" if you have to question if your bow will work you dont have enough bow" Posts: 598 | From: kingston NY | Registered: Jan 2012
| IP: Logged |
posted
ericmerg: Thank you for your reply to my post. I am familar with Masters of the Barebow 3 & 4. I can do what you describe . . . as long as there is no target involved. After a few flinches at the start,I can draw and hold and let down at increasing distances. I can also do that pretty well on a blank bale as long as my eye doesn't find a spot to aim at. Unfortunately, as soon as there is any sort of target which I intend to hit, everything goes haywire. I believe that it was in Fred Bear's original Archers Bible that he described target panic as when the eye triggers the shot before the mind can control it. That's the gist of it, at least for me.
Posts: 10 | From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Aug 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
start up close picking a spot and work your way back i did the same thing pick a spot 3" after the arrow clears the bow approx 2 yards away and do that 50 times do it intill you dont snap shoot it at that distance then take 1 step back and repeat 50 shots etc keep doing this for a month increasing 1 step at a time once i hit 10 yards i jumped to 20 yards and found my mind had rewired itself i now hold for 2-3 seconds
-------------------- any animal you see posted that i say i personally harvested was eaten
" if you have to question if your bow will work you dont have enough bow" Posts: 598 | From: kingston NY | Registered: Jan 2012
| IP: Logged |
I apologize for not getting back to you sooner. I am in Montana right now away from home. I will keep this brief because I am typing on my phone. I am not a huge believer in the bridge program because it works in the subconscious. It trains the subcon and if that has worked for some people, more power to them. However, the fix lies in knowing how to concentrate and what to concentrate on during a shot. I have had 71 people call me at this point and a good number of them have been involved in the bridge program with little sustained success because the bridge program still allows the subcon to tell itself when to release. That fact alone is the natural progression of target panic. It is not natural for the subcon to hold the draw while in perfect aim. It is natural for the subcon to be as efficient as it can be. That is why it will always attempt to shortcut the system and either start to short draw or not be able to aim while at full draw. Again, for those that use the bridge with success, I commend you. I just don't think it is as robust of a shot as truly knowing how to concentrate on a movement that gets you to a psychotrigger.
I will write out the complete system again when I get to my computer. Also, I will apologize in advance to those archers that are using the bridge program with success.
-------------------- Joel Turner IRONMIND Archery Systems Masters of the Barebow 4 2x World Elk Calling Champion / Pro Division Posts: 100 | From: Eatonville WA | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
I found a computer where I am staying!!! So here it is. The reason your nemesis keeps coming back is because you may not know how to concentrate. Analyze your first shots when you tried the feather to nose technique. The first few may have been ok, but what were you thinking about???? I would venture to guess that you were thinking about the feather and when it was going to touch your nose. If you are thinking about the trigger, you will never get to the trigger. You have to think about and do the movement that gets you to your trigger!!!! That is done by focusing the concentration through the use of the mantra. If pulling is the movement that gets you to the feather, then the mantra is KEEP PULLING, KEEP PULLING, KEEP PULLING...said in a revolving rhythm. You are talking directly to the muscles that are required for the action you are talking about (mantra). The mantra is the concsious mind's natural way of getting you to concentrate.
What are you thinking about when you shoot a blank bale shot? Blank bale shooting allows you more freely concentrate because there is no aiming involved. If there is no aiming, the subcon and the con are involved in all other aspects of the shot and they are working pretty well together. As soon as aiming becomes a factor, the subcon will naturally take over the entire shot and make it as efficient as it can. It will usually try to shortcut the system and leave you short drawing or frozen off target. When you have to aim a shot, what are you thinking about????? If you are thinking about anything other than a movement that gets you to the trigger, the subcon is left to shoot the entire shot for you, as effeciently as it can, not the best that it can. You have to remember that it makes no sense to the subcon to hold on a target, it just wants to get the body out of tension as soon as possible.
You really have to analyze your shot and recognize what you are thinking about during a shot. Only when you know what you are thinking, will you be able to control what you are thinking. The mantra is a natural tool to direct concentration. What you say, is what you think. Therefore, you are talking yourself through this shot using the proper neurolinguistic programs (action words) to make yourself concentrate on the movement that gets you to your trigger.
Any shot without a psychological trigger is a shot left to the subcon. And we know that subcon, in most of us, will shortcut the system in one way or another. There is an autopilot for most aspects of the shot, but not the shot activation. If you leave that part to the autopilot, he will fly you into the mountain every time.
With all of that said, your shot sequence is very simple but takes a major decision on your part. You have to make a decision that you are not going to shoot a shot unless it is perfect in concentration. Meaning, you have to know very intimately what is going through your mind at full draw. If it is not perfect, don't shoot the shot, there is no one with a gun to your head making you shoot the arrow. If the shot is not perfect in concentration, let down, and ask yourself, what was I thinking about during that shot. Once you start to recognize your thoughts, you will be on your way to controlling your thoughts. You should be able to stop a bad shot before it happens because you will recognize that something is not right, your thoughts are not correct in some way.
So your shot sequence is as follows: Draw back and aim. Once the aim is complete, start your mantra, KEEP PULLING, KEEP PULLING, KEEP PULLING... until the feather touches your nose or you hit whatever trigger you are using (clicker, tab sear, etc.). The rest of the shot takes care of itself. Notice I didn't mention the release. The release is triggered by the psychotrigger subconsiously. You shouldn't have to think about releasing. You are basically keeping the gremlin at bay and making him wait for the go signal. As long as you have made a decision to release when you feel the trigger, the shot will be away as a surprise if the trigger was hit as a surprise.
The trigger is the final goal of the pulling. The trigger should hit as a byproduct of your pulling. Your concentration, once again, is on the movement that gets you to your trigger. If you don't feel your muscles moving, THEY AIN'T MOVIN'!!!!! If you don't feel the back muscles moving or your elbow rotating, that means your mind is not in the right spot and you should let down.
So let's say you are in the middle of a shot. You have drawn back and aimed, so far so good. You start your mantra and you feel the muscles moving. You are thinking, keep pulling, keep pulling, keep pulling, man when is this feather gonna hit!!!! That thought that went to the feather needs to be recognized and the shot needs to be let down. It will only take a few of these recognitions and you will really start to analyze the thoughts.
The mental mechanics along with the culmination of a psychotrigger is the most robust under stress shot that I have ever experienced. I have been through the gammut of target panic and all of the "Cures" that go along with it. It was not until I developed the use of neurolinguistic programming in the shot process that I truly have beaten this demon. But it takes discipline on the part of the shooter to recognize those natural tendencies of the subconcious gremlin to shortcut the system. Just as in the bridge system, if a shot is not perfect, you have to go back and do it again, but the bridge program does not tell you how to do it right the next time from a mental perspective. That is why the bridge program takes so long and the end result is a shot that is still totally controlled by the subcon.
This shot allows the subcon to do what it does best, aiming, stance, grip, and breathing. But it does not allow the subcon to tell itself when to release. Therefore, it has no way to shortcut the system. You are consciously keeping the gremlin at bay and making him wait for the "GO" signal to release.
As mentioned earlier, I have had 71 callers so far and I invite all of those with questions about this system to please call me. If the writing does not make sense or you have further questions on how to implement the system, I invite all archers to call. I am trying to kill the demon of target panic. It does not need to exist, but but target panic is NATURAL, that is why so many of us archers are plagued by its wrath.
I am starting a shooting school to present this program in a hands on, stress scenario based format that will leave archers with a tool to be self sufficient in diagnosis and treatment of any shooting problems that arise with target panic or form issues. So please keep that in mind if any of you would like me to come to your range or if you would like to travel to mine!!!
I hope this helps.
JT
-------------------- Joel Turner IRONMIND Archery Systems Masters of the Barebow 4 2x World Elk Calling Champion / Pro Division Posts: 100 | From: Eatonville WA | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
Here is another thought about shooting instructors and schools. If you think about how instructors run their schools, they are usually talking their shooters through a shot. Instructors, or anyone for that matter that is talking someone through a shot, has immense power over the shooter. What the instructor is saying is where the conscious mind of the shooter will go. Whether the instructor knows this or not. That said, shooters usually shoot very well during a school but then those mental skills diminish quickly because the instructor did not tell the student how to talk themselves through a shot and the science that goes with those words. For example, there is a very good instructor that tells his students to "HOLD, HOLD" and then they are allowed to shoot the shot. That instructor, whether they know it or not, is making the shooter think about HOLDING. Also, the words start to become a psychotrigger, hence the archer releases on the D of the second HOLD. The problem is, the science is not explained and the shooter is not left with a tool that makes them self sufficient in knowing how to concentrate. After the school, the shooter starts to release on the H of second HOLD, and then the D of first HOLD, and so on until the first H never even gets said and the shot is gone before the archer wanted to release.
In whatever school someone chooses, they should be able to keep those learned skills going for the rest of their life with discipline. A school that leaves the shooter with a totally subconscious shot is teaching, in my opinion, a shot that will eventually be broken by stress. Many of the callers I have had have been to these schools and are now back in the same boat they started in, just now with better form. I am not trying to take away from other instructors, I am just saying that as instructors, we owe it to our students to leave them with skills that will allow them to be successful long after the school is over. The problems do not usually lie in the form realm, they lie in the mental realm. It doesn't matter how well you can aim and how good your form may be if you can't even get your bow to full draw or get your arrow pointed to the right sight picture.
I am sorry if I have offended anyone, these are just some thoughts that are running through my head. After all, the name of this thread is "TARGET PANIC REALITY CHECK"
-------------------- Joel Turner IRONMIND Archery Systems Masters of the Barebow 4 2x World Elk Calling Champion / Pro Division Posts: 100 | From: Eatonville WA | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
