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» Trad Gang.com » Main Forums » The Shooters FORM Forum » Target Panic Reality Check (Page 2)

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Author Topic: Target Panic Reality Check
CLICKERMAN
Trad Bowhunter
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First to Jim Casto Jr.

Aiming is much more simple than people would have you think. Your subconsious is always looking for symmetry. This is why your eye will always be drawn to center of whatever object you are looking at. Your mind has seen your sight picture thousands of times and it knows whether it is right or not. It doesn't matter what aiming system you choose, when your mind gets the proper sight picture for that distance, all you have to do to keep that sight picture is "WATCH IT". Just like on the dvd, if you hold an arrow out in front of you and place the tip on a spot, it will move in a very erratic and minute pattern. No matter which way it moves, its next movement is ALWAYS back to the center. How did you do that? All you did was watch it to keep it. The movement is too minute and unpredicatable to see which way it is going next. Concentration (conscious mind) put towards aiming, does not make the aim better or make it move any less. It moves for everyone and it doesn't get better with time at full draw. When I draw back, my aim is done in less than a second. Once the aim is done, I turn my concentration to my shot activation through the use of my mantra. The subconscious is running many systems at once, balance, breathing, bow grip, and especially aiming. If allowed to also run the shot activation, enter the gremlin, and the shot activation will begin to be shortcut. So to answer your question, and I realize it is against some mainstream coaching, to aim with your subconsious, get your sight picture and then just LET IT DANCE!!!! Thinking about aiming will not make it better or move any less. I applaud you for sticking with that system for two years, but in my opinion, if you apply what you have learned those two fine instructors in regards to form, and then employ the mental mechanics of subconsious aiming and conscious shot activation, your improvement will be instantaneous and forever. I am afraid that your are working against your mind and that is a tough road my friend. Please call me so I can solidify some concepts for you.

JT

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Joel Turner
IRONMIND Archery Systems
Masters of the Barebow 4
2x World Elk Calling Champion / Pro Division

Posts: 140 | From: Eatonville WA | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
CLICKERMAN
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Ed Q,

Switching to the other side has changed what you think about in your shot. You need to analyze what you are thinking about when you shoot left hand vs. right hand. If you are thinking about the right thing during your shot, target panic will not creep in. However, if you are running left handed on auto pilot (subconsious shot activation), the gremlin will show up again once he learns the shot. If you talk your way through each and every shot and say the right things to yourself, target panic will never happen. But remember, the mind does not like to have the body in tension and it employs the gremlin to get rid of that tension. If you are shooting well left handed, you need to understand WHY that is. To understand the WHY, you need to know what is going through your head at full draw. You could shoot with either hand if your mind is right. If this is too vague, I can speak a whole lot faster than I type, so please call when you can.

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Joel Turner
IRONMIND Archery Systems
Masters of the Barebow 4
2x World Elk Calling Champion / Pro Division

Posts: 140 | From: Eatonville WA | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
CLICKERMAN
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Flingblade,

When drawing the bow, think about drawing to anchor, by saying "Draw". Once that is complete, think about the aim by saying "Aim". Once the initial sight picture has been completed, watch it to keep it. Let it DANCE!!! Then switch the concentration to pulling by saying "Keep Pulling, Keep Pulling..." Remember, whatever you say is where your conscious mind will go. Under little stress, you will probably find that you don't have to say "DRAW" and "AIM", but under stress, saying those words will put your conscious mind into those actions. Just don't forget to switch to the pulling mantra when you want to activate your shot. It is talking yourself through a shot, one task at a time, if the stress is high. It is like a mental checklist, switching the conscious mind from one task to the next through the use of speech. It always baffles me how connected the conscious mind is to speech. Talk yourself through each and every shot, and know what thought is in your head so intimately that you can let down if the concentration is not right.

JT

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Joel Turner
IRONMIND Archery Systems
Masters of the Barebow 4
2x World Elk Calling Champion / Pro Division

Posts: 140 | From: Eatonville WA | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
cch
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I think I have finally figured out the Tab Sear. I have been shooting with Joel for many years now. He is an amazing shot. He is usually the only guy to beat me at shoots so I strive to better myself using his methods. I tried the clicker first but was using very heavy bows up around 60# and they would kick my butt. I have since dropped down to the low 50's. My problem with the clicker and pulling the feather to my nose was that I would come to anchor and when I would start to pull I felt that I couldn't. I seemed to be locked in place.

So I changed a few things the other day. I have been having problems with my ring finger on my string hand. It has been locking up on me when it got cold out and all I could bend was the very tip. I got a new Bateman tab and then I tried a deeper hook past the first joint. I then had to lower my anchor down a little lower so it would fit on my face better. I feel much stronger now and with the tab sear I can hold anchor and don't have to feel like I am pulling as much and just keep pressing the sear until it goes off. I just need to adjust my gaps but think it will help. Maybe I can finally beat Joel in a couple of shoots.

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Rossco7002
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What's a 'tab sear'?

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HHA Half Breed 52@28
David Miller 'Old Tom' - coming soon
John Schulz American Longbow 65@28
David Miller 'The Expedition' 55@26

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Ed Q
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Thanks a bunch, Joel, for taking the time to take our calls and post on here!

What you said makes perfect sense regarding shooting LH vs. RH. Since LH is still a little awkward for me, I keep telling myself to implement proper form, i.e., draw correctly, keep bow hand correctly, keep draw elbow aligned, etc. And since I'm right-eye dominant, I tell myself to focus on my left-eye, thereby forcing myself to maintain hold and full draw, and tell myself to line up the left eyesight with the target and point of the arrow.

I experimented with what you told Flingblade while shooting RH last night and found it works perfectly if I can discipline myself to tell myself the similar things I tell myself while shooting LH. When I consciously tell myself "aim, aim, aim" while at full draw, similar to what I do when I tell myself to line everything up correctly when I shoot LH, I no longer have the premature release, and my shots are right on target! It's just a matter of making sure I do this each and every shot.

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dragonheart
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Ed Q,

One of the problems with using aim, aim, aim is you are telling yourself to do what you are trying consiously not to do. BTW: I have used that mantra in the past and it worked for awhile, but did not last once my head figured out how to shortcut the shot process.

If you focus your thoughts on form, like "keep pulling" or "push elbow" I think that is what joel is talking about. Self-talk that directs us to the result of an unanticipated release of the string.

Aim, Aim, Aim will work for a while, but that mantra might lead you back into a panic due to overaiming. You have changed one of the stimulus, but the subconsious can figure that out and begin to focus too much on aiming.

This is a real shift from the common way people have learned about overcoming TP. The words we say in our head to ourselves have significant meaning to us.

This idea is getting the archer "thinking" during the shot about the process of a perfect shot. It gives a mantra, or mental script, with less emphasize on aiming. Overaiming and "trying too hard to hold it on" leads to target panic. Allowing your subconsious to aim is more relaxed to me in the short time I have been using this.

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Longbows & Short Shots

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SAVIOUR68
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X2 ON WHAT IS A TAB SEAR
Posts: 461 | From: UNITED STATES OF TEXAS | Registered: Jan 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
knobby
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This is a really interesting read. I've had target panic for over thirty years, and have tried just about everything, to no avail. Shooting is very good with a clicker, but I melt down on animals, so that didn't work. Short of going to left-handed, I went to a release aid and I can once again get to full draw and aim. Even with the release aid, I still flinch once and awhile, but the string is locked in by the release, so I can recover or let down. I would love to one day return to the control I once had, but thirty plus years of fighting it probably has that negativity pretty deeply ingrained. Good luck to those that can make it work. You have my greenest envy!
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2Blade
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Joel I have to ask ive been shooting a clicker for 4 years straight now ( I shot the 3-D course without clicker and did great!) I had a problem where I would meet the string instead of drawing the bow to me. Should I adjust the clicker so its where I pull the bow string to me? I find its harder to make it click this way because ive always shot meeting the string with my face. But I feel like my old way is making my draw a 1/2" shorter. Thanks sir!

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The Stuttering Bowhunter

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CLICKERMAN
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Knobby,

Your problem is virtually the same as everyone else's problem. I would like to talk to you and analyze your shot. I may be able to give you some advice that will give you total control over the shot of your dreams. My phone number is in the first post of this thread. Looking forward to chatting with you.

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Joel Turner
IRONMIND Archery Systems
Masters of the Barebow 4
2x World Elk Calling Champion / Pro Division

Posts: 140 | From: Eatonville WA | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
CLICKERMAN
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2 Blade,

You should have to make a conscious effort to pull fairly hard until the clicker goes off. If you are thinking about the clicker and when it is going to pop, you are not thinking about pulling. Your concentration has to be focused on the movement that gets you to the pop of the clicker, not on the clicker itself. That concentration is focused through the use of the mantra, Keep Pulling, Keep Pulling, Keep Pulling... The mantra is based in Neurolinguistic Programming. You are essentially telling certain muscles to do certain things. If you practice the mental mechanics of subconscious aiming and conscious shot activation, you will find that you will come through your clicker much quicker. You will probably find that you will need to lengthen the clicker string. There is a fine balance between not have to pull hard enough, and having to pull too much. You will have to find that point in your back muscles. To really find that point, however, your mind must be right and the concentration is on the pulling.

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Joel Turner
IRONMIND Archery Systems
Masters of the Barebow 4
2x World Elk Calling Champion / Pro Division

Posts: 140 | From: Eatonville WA | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tj69
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Clickerman, don´t get me wrong, I don´t want to be rude, but is there a special reason, not to answer the question:
What is a tab sear?

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Bezaleel ILF riser + Border HEX6 limbs 50#@29"
Morrison XD riser + Border HEX6 limbs 51#@29"

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CLICKERMAN
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Hello All,

I am getting alot of response from many of you and I truly enjoy bringing some sense into the chaotic world of target panic. Up to this point, those that I have spoken with and the posts that I read on this site and others all have very similar problems or symptoms of target panic. Isn't it amazing how similar the symptoms are in archers. Also, isn't it perplexing how so many archers have target panic.

The shear number of archers suffering from target panic and the similarity in the symptoms tells me that it is a human mind issue. Our brains work in very specific ways throughout the species. If we figure out how the brain works, the solutions are equally as similar. I have told each one of you that I have spoken with the same exact things. Those things have been the mental mechanics of subconsious aiming and the use of Neurolinguistic Programming to activate the shot. In addition, we have incorporated the use of a non-anticipatory psychological trigger. These are very fancy words for talking yourself through a shot and pulling to a goal. These things have worked for every archer that I have spoken since I developed the Mental Mechanics program. The results have always been instantaneous because I change the way an archer thinks during the shot. The system goes right along with the mechanisms of the brain instead of fighting it. I believe that is why it has worked for everyone that has the discipline to follow the program. Like I said before, shooting well is a choice. You can choose to practice true concentration, or you can let your autopilot (subconscious) run the shot for you. But remember, the autopilot is a madman that doesn't like to hold on target, or come to full draw while aiming at a spot, he likes to get the tension of the bowstring off of the body. The choice of true concentration through the use of a mantra, makes the shot robust and unaffected by stress. It is a tangible tool to use in your time of need when the crowd is watching or the buck of a lifetime is standing 24 yards in front of you. The subconscious autopilot only wants results and the only way he can get results is to shoot the arrow by getting rid of the string. To gauge your shooting by a score means that you are stuck in the results of the shot. It should not be said, "I shot well today" It should be said, "I concentrated well today"

Because of the response I am getting from all of you fine folks. I would like to start doing some shooting schools to really solidify these concepts in a hands on, one on one arena. Please let me know if there would be any interest in such a school. It would be for those that want to gain complete control of their shot and truly experience what it feels like to actually shoot to the potential of the mind. I would think that would be everyone!!!! The school would incorporate bow tuning and set up, the mental mechanics of the shot (target panic solutions), and scenario based stress training for concentration practice. The archer would leave the school with the mental tools to prevent any further bouts with target panic and an innate knowledge of how to concentrate under stress.

As for the tab sear that many of you are asking about, please pm or call me for an explanation. I am not trying to be all secretive about it except for the fact that I am trying to develop a patent for the invention. I would be glad to speak with you about it but I don't think an open forum is the place for protection purposes. I know that sounds bad, but this thing works so well, I think it will have a profound effect on the archery world, so I apologize in advance for not talking too much about it on open forum.

Thanks for reading my ramblings.

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Joel Turner
IRONMIND Archery Systems
Masters of the Barebow 4
2x World Elk Calling Champion / Pro Division

Posts: 140 | From: Eatonville WA | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
CLICKERMAN
Trad Bowhunter
Member # 8072

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TJ69,

I just sent you a pm. Sorry for being rude, just being a little protective I guess.

My apologies,

JT

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Joel Turner
IRONMIND Archery Systems
Masters of the Barebow 4
2x World Elk Calling Champion / Pro Division

Posts: 140 | From: Eatonville WA | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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