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» Trad Gang.com » Main Forums » The Shooters FORM Forum » Target Panic Reality Check (Page 4)

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Author Topic: Target Panic Reality Check
2Blade
Trad Bowhunter
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I "snap shoot" with my clicker to pratice for the quick shots its fun! I have to ask Joel have you pulled through the clicker on every animal that youve shot? Ive read some people cant do it when shooting at game animals. This to me says TP isnt cured.

Also if a Psycho Trigger is important how do Rod and Denny shoot without one? I read Denny uses his Rhomboid as a clicker but what about other people who pull thru the shot without a clicker?

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The Stuttering Bowhunter

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CLICKERMAN
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2Blade,

Since I figured out the mental mechanics, I have pulled through or pressed through (depending on the psychotrigger) on every animal. Some people don't do it on animals because of the stress involved in the shot. WHAT are you thinking about during the shot. During a high stress hunting situation, the mind wants to switch to results. Man, I really hope I hit this thing, ok, I've got to stop him in that hole in the trees, there's the shot, NOW!!!!! None of those thoughts will help you to shoot the perfect arrow under stress. I recommend that people put a little sign on their bow that says, Keep Pulling, Keep Pulling... It acts as a reminder during the time of stress. If you are thinking about the spot you want to hit, the subconscious is then left to release the arrow when it wants to. It wants those results that you are thinking about and it will shortcut the perfect shot to get them.

To my knowledge, and I may be wrong, but Rod Jenkins now shoots with a clicker. At least I am told that he did at IBO Worlds. Denny uses his Rhomboid as a back clicker, but he has accepted the fact that it is an anticipatory psychotrigger. Both shooters have experienced and still battle target panic as most of us do. Only a handful of people in the archery world can truly say they have never experienced or battle with target panic. Remember, the mental mechanics are more important than the psychotrigger. The psychotrigger is just a convenient "GO" signal to tell the subconscious to release the string.

I am not trying to take away from people that are able to shoot perfect arrows without the use of psychotrigger, but those people are few and far between. They are the 1% and for that I envy them. Those that can shoot a shot like that under stress are even more rare. The mental mechanics is just a way to show you not only what to concentrate on during a shot, but HOW to concentrate.

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Joel Turner
IRONMIND Archery Systems
Masters of the Barebow 4
2x World Elk Calling Champion / Pro Division

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Flingblade
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Joel,
Directions on posting images can be found in the FAQ link at the top. Thanks so much for being willing to help and share this information with us all!
Gary

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Ed Q
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quote:
Originally posted by dragonheart:
Ed Q,

Our words are so meaningful to us. I believe that part of the manifestation process of TP is in overaiming. Aim, aim, aim as a mantra may just leads us back down the same trail. Thinking pull, pull, pull or whatever that may be that works for you to get to the conclusion of the shot may be a better mantra.

For me it is push, push, push. Those words activate me to push my draw elbow around and thus activates the proper back muscles for a perfect shot.

Over time shooting a bow we begin to try to hard, to be over precise in our aim. This leads to an increase in metal tension, anxiety about the shot. John Schulz stated in his video that Howard Hill said "if your forms right, you won't be too far off at 50 yards".

What do you have to do to hit the spot? Point (aim) in the direction of the intended spot and shoot a repeatable shot execution. I really like what Joel is talking about. A process focus of our thoughts on the action it takes to get to the conclusion of the shot. We are not so engrossed in aiming that we create an overwhelming amount of tension in an already tense person under the strain of drawing a bow to full draw.

Just like our bowarm, drawing hand, and bow grip needs to be consistent, a sameness to our cognitions need also to be present. Just my thoughts, no pun intended [Razz] [Big Grin]

Thanks a bunch, Dragonheart, for your time and generous insight in helping me with this malady. My initial TP caused me to struggle mentally with pulling back and reaching full draw without releasing prematurely. I think I developed this form of TP by beginning to aim at the outset of my draw and continuing to aim while drawing.

I've been practicing Dr. Kidwell's drills and have incorporated a different kind of draw that allows me to draw completely to full anchor without releasing by not aiming at all at the outset or during my draw. By doing this, I can come to full draw and hold. However, I've since developed a new and different kind of TP that mentally prevents me from lining up the tip of the arrow with the target. If the aim is high, I struggle to bring the bow arm down an inch or two for elevation purposes. If the aim is low, I struggle to raise my bow arm. I've found recently that if I use a mantra by telling myself to "aim, aim, aim," I can usually overcome the mental block and raise or lower my bow arm accordingly to adjust for elevation before releasing. Fortunately, I don't seem to have a problem with windage (left/right), just elevation. Should I instead use the mantra of "lower bow arm, lower bow arm, etc.?"

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2Blade
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Man great response Joel! Ive really learned alot from you guys from pics and reading I really feel like ive killed my TP! I just feel so relaxed and calm and I KNOW im gonna pull through everytime. I really feel like shooting with a clicker and your techniques will help anyone have an enjoyable TP free shooting experence. I know when I have kids or teach somebody new they will learn with a clicker from day 1 to ensure they dont have to deal with the TP bs. I couldnt imagine shooting any other way. Thanks again Joel and keep on clickin [Wink]

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The Stuttering Bowhunter

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CLICKERMAN
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Ed Q,

Please call me so I can explain your issue to you. It sounds as though you are thinking about aiming during your shot. This thought process will allow the subconscious to perform the entire shot activation process. That is not a good thing and will lead to even further target panic. It sounds as if you are using the proper sight picture as your goal and your stimulus for the release. Locking off target is a common symptom of target panic that is brought on by thinking about aiming.

The aim is only the first part of the shot, once it is done, you only have to watch the sight picture to keep it. Your subconscious will always find symmetry but you have to let it do that. The next portion of the shot is conscious shot activation. They are two totally separate and unrelated tasks for the mind.

Please, Please, Please call me so I can explain. It is way more simple than you might imagine. What Dragonheart is talking about are things that I explained to him in our conversation. I would like to get you on the right track so you can enjoy complete control of your shot.

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Joel Turner
IRONMIND Archery Systems
Masters of the Barebow 4
2x World Elk Calling Champion / Pro Division

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CLICKERMAN
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 -

Here is a pic of the tab sear, more to come.

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Joel Turner
IRONMIND Archery Systems
Masters of the Barebow 4
2x World Elk Calling Champion / Pro Division

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CLICKERMAN
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 -

Another pic

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Joel Turner
IRONMIND Archery Systems
Masters of the Barebow 4
2x World Elk Calling Champion / Pro Division

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CLICKERMAN
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And another!!!

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Joel Turner
IRONMIND Archery Systems
Masters of the Barebow 4
2x World Elk Calling Champion / Pro Division

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dragonheart
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Ed Q,

One of the things I really hear from your post is a large significance still on aiming and being just right.

In my experience, you must first learn a form or style with no emphasis on aiming. Not sure where you are with that. Video helps a bunch for you to see what is looks like and you can relate that to what it feels like to shoot he arrow. Your movies don't lie, they are brutally honest sometimes.

If you can shoot and learn the feel of a perfect shot, that is key in developing your physical form. Joel's aspects are for the mental habits of a perfect shot, and a gives a mental routine for every shot.

How do you aim? gap? instinctive? What triggers the loose of the string for you?

Your mind (subconsious) can focus on multiple tasks at the same time. One analogy my buddy Nate Steen talks about is driving a car. You can be "zoned out" but still have an awareness of the speedometer, foot on the gas, lines on the road, steering wheel, etc. Getting the physical form of a shot pinned down I think comes first.

What do you want to look like at full draw? at followthru? at mid draw? etc?

I have always been fascinated by the archers different forms and how people can shoot well with multiple different styles. Bent arm, straight, slouched, upright, thumb up, thumb down, etc. All will work, but must have some sameness to be reproduced. Certain grips and types of bows lend themselves to being shot a certain style.

I understand the concept of not aiming until you get to full draw, but for me it does not work due to style (hill style) I shoot, and my previous manifestation (symptoms) of TP.

I can hold at full draw, but the TP problem developed. I got into freezing in the shot process and being unable to activate the shot. the clicker did that to me. I became so dependent on shooting off the clicker that I actually developed clicker panic. That totally sucks, believe you me! This is TP and lighter weight bows only made this worse, especially shooting at game animals. Not being able to let go with a clean release.

For me there is an increase in the intensity of concentration through the shot. Like a narrowing of the focus on a lens as I get to anchor. When my concentration is right, then back tension increase at the same time, and the unanticipated trigger activates the refusal to hold the bowstring and it is "down the pipe".

As a mantra I use "keep pushing, keep pushing" in regards to my draw elbow. If you have someone that does not understand which muscles to use in the back, have them think about to "push" their elbow on the draw arm back. This will activate the right muscles most of the time. Pulling at times people will use their arm strength, which is no way to draw a bow.

I have not used Joel's mental system long, but I tell you I am shooting much cleaner shots and getting to full draw. My release is a surprise. Joel has drawn out of me in a brief discussion the mental "script" for my self talk and cognitive habits for an archery shot. Pretty dang cool.

BTW: I do not shoot a clicker.

"lower bow arm" is a mantra related again to aiming not the process of getting to the unanticipated trigger.

Once aiming is done, what will get you to the loose of the bowstring without anticipation?

Joel explains this really well, give him a call.

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Longbows & Short Shots

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Ed Q
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Joel and Dragonheart - you guys are awesome! Thanks a bunch for helping a trad brother out with this accursed TP malady!

Joel, thanks for offering to help me over the phone. I will definitely plan on calling you. I realize we all work and have busy schedules, so is there a day and time that's good or bad to call?

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tyee
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Great post Joel. Tim

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bezaleel bow works
schafer
howatt

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CLICKERMAN
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Ed Q,

Call my cell anytime. If you don't reach me, please leave me a message. I am usually stuck in traffic and can chat the entire trip home which takes me about 1.5 hours to get home from work. I will hook up the bluetooth and we can chat. I will be able to get back to you by about 5 P.M. PST. Look forward to talking with you.

JT

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Joel Turner
IRONMIND Archery Systems
Masters of the Barebow 4
2x World Elk Calling Champion / Pro Division

Posts: 140 | From: Eatonville WA | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BOHO
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1.5 hour drive ??? holy cats. hope your gas is cheaper up there.

fantastic thread by the way. good luck in 2012

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TGMM Brotherhood of the Bow

Tom

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Terry Green
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Someone asked me if I'd looked at this thread, and I said no. I don't get into target panic chat cause I've never had it and don't want to.

But I will say this,...I shoot the exact opposite. I am totally immersed consciously into aiming, and my subconscious totally runs the shot. I'm aiming before I ever start drawing my bow.

Some of the best shots I've ever made at game I was so immersed in the hunt and the shot window opening, I don't even remember drawing the bow.

Interesting how some folks do things one way, and others do it in a completely opposite manner. I guess that's why we have folk figuring the trajectory to the moon, and other folks flying the rocket....glad they don't swap just before ignition.

No, I didn't read all the thread....after just a few posts....I panicked!!! [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

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"An anchor point is not a destination, it's an evolution to execution" - Me

"It's important, when going after a goal, to never lose sight of the integrity of the journey" - Andy Garcia

Black Powder Gang ......... & www.loopaddictions.com

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