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» Trad Gang.com » Main Forums » The Shooters FORM Forum » Target Panic- Please Participate (Page 2)

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Author Topic: Target Panic- Please Participate
Dan Jones
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Mental or physical? Here's a passage from an article about target panic that Jim Ploen wrote years ago for the Instinctive Archer magazine.

The very act of drawing a heavy bow builds tension in the muscles being used and in the tendons that attach them to the bones that can lead to a protective reflex reaction to the tension or a flexor reflex. A flexor reflex is a movement which occurs without a conscious decision by the brain. There are many different types of reflex, but the ones that we are most aware of is the flexor reflex that reacts to pain and is part of our self-protection. We will quickly withdraw any part of our body the instant it is hurt. No conscious decision on our part is needed to jerk away from the area of pain.

I'm not well versed in medical science, but this certainly seems to explain my inability to control the release more so than a fear of missing or anything else that may or may not be going on in my head while shooting a bow. At 48# I was way overbowed when I began to shoot a bow and I shot it way too much and after a few years I got the panic, which I was never able to overcome.

*Jim Ploen's excellent article can easily be found on the internet.

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oldrubline
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I would take a look at Joel Turner's stuff. I purchased his ebook and read that. He also has excellent videos you can watch including The Science of Target Panic 1 and 2. I tend to agree with his description and I also have gained a ton from Mr Kidwell's excellent excellent book. I have had very bad target panic...Kidwell's book helped me in leaps and bounds and the work of Joel Turner gave me the final tools I needed to control target panic. In fact, it got me to a confidence level that allowed me to hunt both MT and CO for the first time in my life this past year.

Dan

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Jim Casto Jr
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To me, it's simply not having complete control over every aspect of your shot sequence; the inability to do exactly what you want to do.

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"Form...is everything"

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Roy from Pa
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It's a mental road block that is difficult to overcome. I had it bad when I first joined an archery league and was shown how to shoot three under, using the point of the arrow as my front sight. In conjunction with that, I purchased a little too heavy of a bow for target archery. Along with that, I would start out above the target and bring the point of the arrow down onto the target. My target panic was, I could not get the arrow point completely down onto the bulls eye and subconsciously my mind said release. I shot great groups about 5 inches above the bulls eye. That carried over into hunting and I shot over top of every deer I took a shot at.

So a buddy persuaded me into shooting split finger and just staring at the bulls eye instead of placing the arrow point on it as a front sight. My target panic was immediately gone! I thought damn.. SO after a year of just staring at the spot, I gave three under another go around. My target panic was cured and never returned and that was 15 years ago.

Now I hope this thread doesn't put the whammies on me. LOL

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BWallace10327
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This is great. Finally, a thread compiling many different understandings of this unfortunate condition, disorder or habit. Thanks for everyone's contribution.

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***$ Brent Wallace $***
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pavan
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Sometimes people like to call things like a faulty anchor TP and actually develop real TP by going with the guidelines that others have given as proof of the ailment. If your anchor is failing, does trying to force concentrate on holding a bow back for 4 seconds really cure it? John Schulz shot with a one second tempo, Hill's tempo was quite often faster than that. When Hill's anchor got off, he worked on his anchor, not his hold. One's draw should be aim based, one's release should be aim based. It is totally possible to be on target as anchor is established, that can be practices separately from everything else. When things fall apart because we are asking too much for the brain to be paying attention too, we all to often brand that confusion as TP. If you practice doing a bad thing often enough, it will stick, but ya doesn't has to call it TP Johnston.

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Pavan

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riivioristo
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Hi

How about this - my TP is on when I try to shoot with a tab and goes away, when I move back to my tusty glove...just do not understand [Confused]

Otherwise GFA treatment as just holding bow in full draw few seconds and then letting down without release is helping me...reprogramming as he says...so this condition is mix of personal mental / technical / fysical issues...there is perhaps not just only cure,everyone should make up their own remedy?

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You lost your money-you lost nothing, you lost your health-you lost something, you lost your personality-you lost everything...

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Austin Brown
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim Casto Jr:
To me, it's simply not having complete control over every aspect of your shot sequence; the inability to do exactly what you want to do.

That is pretty much exactly as I define it also. I personally started off self taught and overbowed around 18 years ago. I have been battling getting control ever since.

I struggled the most with the kind of tp where I completely froze up just short of anchor. If I did close my eyes or use a clicker to get to anchor I still struggled not to cut it loose the instant I might have been on target. With some work and alot of flinching/double clutching I could get by that part with a clicker eventually but the clicker kind of drove me nuts too. I was still working through slowly trying to beat tp back with some success without the clicker when out of the blue one day after all these years it was gone completely.

I have been hesitant to post about it, talk about it out loud even with my wife, or even to even think about it for fear of jinxing it or that it was one of the many bandaids. But that is the thing, I didn't do anything to fix it at all. After all the hours of reading threads and books, years of going down/up/way down in draw weight, and honestly at times getting close to quitting it was just gone.

I am pretty sure my cure can be attributed to a complete accident. About 6 weeks ago my doctor decided after a long while of me putting it off, it was time for me to try a daily medicine for preventing migraine headaches. I was skeptical and concerned with side effects and never even considered it might have any benefit beyond reducing the frequency of my headaches but it apparently has somehow cured my target panic also. I am not telling this story to advocate anyone using medicine to beat target panic but am curious if anyone else has ever noticed this? I would alot rather be able to say I beat it on my own, not have migraines, and not take the medicine but is really nice to finally have control after all this time.

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Joshua 24:15
As for me and my house,we will serve the Lord.

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KSdan
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quote:
Originally posted by crazynate:
I used to have target panic very bad. I read archery insights by j kid well and that cured me. BUT it is very serious. To me tp can be premature release which is the most common and premature hold. I believe one more that is not talked about as much is when acquiring the bullseye triggers a release. Once I got my premature hold fixed I struggled with this for about 6 months before I fixed it. I believe I had tp because I have a lot of anxiety and I'm pretty darn hyper. Type a personality for sure. But tp can be cured trust me. I've said it 20 times on tradgang but if you have tp or just want to learn more about the mental side of shooting a recurve please pick up a copy of archery insights. From 3 rivers. Also spend 100 bucks and buy a cheaper recurve in a low poundage to use as a trainer. It will benefit you very much as a shooter. Just my opinion.

Ditto. . .
Kidwell's Sports Pysch research (I know other PhDs in the field as well) would ALL support that they ABSOLUTELY DO understand TP. Kidwell has 100% success curing Olympic archers/athletes. As I stated on TradG before, I have Olympian and Pros in other fields that use this stuff regularly and it resolves their issues. It really is an issue of HOW your brain works. It is NOT some pycho-babble but understanding and training your brain to work correctly.

Dan in KS

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If we're not supposed to eat animals ... how come they're made out of meat? ~anon

Bears can attack people- although fewer people have been killed by bears than in all WWI and WWII combined.

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ChuckC
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Mcdave. I agree with what you last said.

I think many folks are prone to that and not separating your shot sequence into steps, especially where aiming follows anchoring (not before), might be setting up those who are more prone to it. Almost ( not quite ) like some folks are physically more prone to addiction than others. Without participating in the addictive activity you likely wont get it.

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BWallace10327
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quote:
Originally posted by pavan:
Sometimes people like to call things like a faulty anchor TP and actually develop real TP by going with the guidelines that others have given as proof of the ailment. If your anchor is failing, does trying to force concentrate on holding a bow back for 4 seconds really cure it? John Schulz shot with a one second tempo, Hill's tempo was quite often faster than that. When Hill's anchor got off, he worked on his anchor, not his hold. One's draw should be aim based, one's release should be aim based. It is totally possible to be on target as anchor is established, that can be practices separately from everything else. When things fall apart because we are asking too much for the brain to be paying attention too, we all to often brand that confusion as TP. If you practice doing a bad thing often enough, it will stick, but ya doesn't has to call it TP Johnston.

I couldn't agree more. It seems that bad habit and target panic are sometimes one in the same, but anyone who has struggled with tp can attest that this is not the case. That type of definition is simple, available and easy to understand, but it leaves out the panic. I will wager that someone who shoots erratically with bad habits and doesn't get very worked up about it will never develop target panic.

If an archer gets frustrated and initiates a new habit of building anxiety before each and every shot, the DSM-V framework of panic disorder are being arranged and the problem becomes more complicated. So I guess my secret for preventing this problem is just to relax, even if your shooting badly, getting anxious will just make things worse.

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***$ Brent Wallace $***
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McDave
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"Just to relax." Ah, therein lies the rub.

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TGMM Family of the Bow

I'm a man, and I can change, if I have to, I guess.

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crazynate
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Interesting to hear about different types of this problem people have had.

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"If a man does his best, what else is there? "- General George S Patton Jr.

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pavan
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Crazynate, I know another Nate that used the old sky target to get control of his form. Years ago I found that a back quiver full of arrows, a blue sky and a large mowed alfalfa was a great combination for getting control of the release. What a kid does with a bow, an arrow, a big open field, launch the arrow into the air and watch the arrow fly. The spirit of adventure, the release of tension, it's fun. "just relax" refers to anxiety. In the 60s I hunted with a man that had a three pin bow sight on his bows. He shot through the sight and had a swing/spread draw. He was told at a Sioux Falls shoot by a shooter that could not begin to keep pace with him, "You are almost snap shooting." His reply was, "How long does it take you to move your bow an eighth inch?"

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Pavan

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Draven
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For me target panic is something you develop while shooting "instinctive", when overthinking too much about "why did I miss" after the shot instead just shooting and let the brain take care about yardage, shooting sequence etc. It's the result of losing the confidence in you due to the selfimposed pressure. You try different things, it doesn't work and in the end all is screwed because you convinced yourself in a perverted way that you can't hit the target. I can see it as a twisted form of nocebo - a detrimental effect on accuracy produced by psychological factors like negative expectations based on previous results. The quicksand effect or fears becoming reality are other names imo. I tend to think is happening more to perfectionists by nature not by practice.
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