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» Trad Gang.com » Main Forums » The Shooters FORM Forum » Joel Tuners online course for Target Panic who's taken it? (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Joel Tuners online course for Target Panic who's taken it?
South MS Bowhunter
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I called Joel over two years ago when he offered his phone # to help those with TP.

I put into practice what he said and lived 2 years TP free👍

But, now I have relapsed and need help again.

Has anybody taken his online course and we're you helped?

I know his teachings work (2 years of TP free), just want to know if the online would be the way to go.

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Everything I have and have become is due to the Lord and his great mercy.

Posts: 3833 | From: Mississippi | Registered: May 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
McDave
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I'm in the middle of taking his online course right now. I also spoke with him at some length over the phone several years ago. I don't currently have target panic, but have always been interested in the mental side of archery, and want to see how his thinking has evolved since our telephone conversations.

You might want to listen to Joel's podcast interview by The Push Archery. These podcasts are discussed over on PowWow, or you can find it on the internet. Some of the concepts he discussed in that interview interested me enough that I signed up for his online course.

What hasn't changed in the two years since we spoke to him are his basic concepts:

1. The decision when to release the arrow has to be taken away from the subconscious.

2. The way to do that is by using a non-anticipatory psychotrigger, such as a clicker, feather to nose, tab sear, or grip sear, combined with a mantra.

3. The only thought you are allowed to have while activating the psychotrigger is to focus on the movement required to trigger it. If you have any other thoughts while this is happening, you have to be aware of them and let down.

4. You have to know in advance exactly what your shot process will be, and be in control enough to let down at any point your shot deviates from your plan, which is pretty much the same thing Rod Jenkins, Rick Welch, and probably any other coach will tell you.

I don't think he offers any new ways to beat target panic, so if you are already doing these things and still have target panic, the course might not help you.

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TGMM Family of the Bow

I'm a man, and I can change, if I have to, I guess.

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nhbuck1
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where can i find this?

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aim small miss small

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McDave
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This is the link to the posts on the podcast

Joel's website is ironmindhunting.com, where you can find out about his course.

--------------------
TGMM Family of the Bow

I'm a man, and I can change, if I have to, I guess.

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Draven
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quote:
Originally posted by South MS Bowhunter:
I called Joel over two years ago when he offered his phone # to help those with TP.

I put into practice what he said and lived 2 years TP free👍

But, now I have relapsed and need help again.

What changed? Can you identify this?
Posts: 154 | From: Canada | Registered: Mar 2016  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ThePushArchery
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South MS,

Like McDave spoke of (thanks McDave!) we interviewed Joel in Episode 11 I think of the Push Podcast. You can find them on iTunes, Stitcher, Podbean or most other podcast host apps on your smart phone. Another avenue is to listen in at the link in my signature on our podcast host site that has all our episodes and you can listen in on your PC.

Also, check out our film project "The Push 1.4 - Becoming an Ironmind".

Its a 7 day video-journal of my progression through Joel's online course. It will give you a little picture of what to expect. Link below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c5JgzszLG0

--------------------
"The Push - A Traditional Archery Film"
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=1E1vKkSSoNs

@thepusharchery

Podcast - "The Push - A Traditional Archery Podcast" iTunes Podbean Stitcher

https://www.thepusharchery.com

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South MS Bowhunter
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Thanks to all the comments.

When I first spoke with Joel I tried the clicker as the psychotrigger, and it immediately helped me to get to full draw each time. But I never got the hang of pulling through it and releasing at the click.

Plus I want to shoot without the clicker.

I tried the feather to the nose, but again I have problems of feeling it making contact and releasing at that point.

So in essence I have hodged podged some of Joel's method together and got it to work for these two years.

Basically using a mantra after reaching full draw and talking through my release.

Now in stress situations I can't get to full draw or hold if I do.

Matt, I've listen to the Podcast and watched your video of becoming an IronMind, good stuff!

So if I can find a psychotrigger that works for me, is there hope?

What would be some other methods that may work?

Joel has been so good to freely give of his time in the past, I don't feel right in seeking his help without making the monetary commitment now that he making it for sale.

But I want to be sure It will help, as the $$$ are a small price to pay if deliverance is ensured [pray]

--------------------
Everything I have and have become is due to the Lord and his great mercy.

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South MS Bowhunter
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Draven,

That's part of the frustrating problem, it's like overnight it changed and I haven't been able to figured it out.

The last two years I went to the two annual shoots that me and a buddy attend each year and was able to compete against him and others in our group like I had never before.

Shot my best scores ever and was able to be in control of most of my shots.

Hunted this year and took 2 deer for the first time in the same season , another major accomplishment for me.

Went to the first shoot in February of this year shot the first round really good, then BAM fell completely apart the rest of the weekend. Some of the worst TP attacks I've ever had.

At home in the backyard, some days a backyard Champion, but put someone next to me....complete noodle.

I HATE TP!

--------------------
Everything I have and have become is due to the Lord and his great mercy.

Posts: 3833 | From: Mississippi | Registered: May 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
South MS Bowhunter
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Joel if your reading any of this i'm the "poster boy" your looking for to advertise the success of your course, lol [biglaugh]

Give me deliverance and i'll be the best spokesperson you will ever have, let me know if you want to take on the challenge.

I'll have the 8x10 glossy printed up ASAP when your ready [goldtooth]

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Everything I have and have become is due to the Lord and his great mercy.

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McDave
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I would like to assure you, John, that you can beat your target panic. I think there are many paths to success, but Joel's is certainly one of them. If you listened to the podcast, the moderator who took Joel's course talked about his ups and downs after finishing the course, until he got to the point that he made the commitment to himself that he would never again shoot an arrow that was "good enough." It had to be exactly according to his pre-planned shot sequence, or he would let it down. From your comments above, I don't think you have made that commitment yet. Good enough is not good enough when it comes to defeating target panic. Defeating target panic is sort of like recovering from being an alcoholic: there are no grades like A B C & D, and you can feel pretty good if you get a B; there is only pass and fail, because if you leave any room at all for target panic to wriggle back in, it will.

So if you decide to take the online course, I recommend you look at what Joel says not so much as suggestions, to mold your own cure loosely around, but as commands written on a clay tablet and handed down from above, to be done exactly to the letter or not at all.

So yes, now that I've read your responses, I think you could benefit from Joel's course, but only if you commit to it entirely.

--------------------
TGMM Family of the Bow

I'm a man, and I can change, if I have to, I guess.

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Draven
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quote:
Originally posted by South MS Bowhunter:
Draven,

That's part of the frustrating problem, it's like overnight it changed and I haven't been able to figured it out.

The last two years I went to the two annual shoots that me and a buddy attend each year and was able to compete against him and others in our group like I had never before. Shot my best scores ever and was able to be in control of most of my shots.

Hunted this year and took 2 deer for the first time in the same season , another major accomplishment for me.

Went to the first shoot in February of this year shot the first round really good, then BAM fell completely apart the rest of the weekend. Some of the worst TP attacks I've ever had.

At home in the backyard, some days a backyard Champion, but put someone next to me....complete noodle.

I HATE TP!

Looks like you know the reason: emotivity took over. Maybe because you shoot really good the first round, you put pressure on you in the wrong way. With a tendency to do things your way without being actually your way of doing things correctly, you might benefit from the course just IF you do what the teacher says. No IFs no BUTs.

PS Are you using any aiming system consciously? If you don't use one, I don't see how it will help you unless you start learning one.

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oldrubline
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I used Joel's ebook and his MBB segment to transform my shooting (would release early unable to achieve and hold at full draw). I was then able to enjoy shooting using the back of point as the psycho trigger. But, I'm in the U.P. And hunt without bait in the big woods. Deer numbers are low. I shot my 8 point on the ground as he worked a scrape. My controlled shot lasted up to about half the shot sequence. After that, it went back to my automatic style. I only recall the spot on the deer and the arrow passing through it. I was elated to have a beautiful buck down but very upset with losing control on the shot. Since that time I still use the control of the psychotigger of back of point to always reach full draw. But, I focus on building tension in my back until the point touches. Surprises me, and I release. I am using this to build good form and shot sequences , but want to eventually give it to the subconscious and just aim consciously when shooting game. There is just too much else going on in that split moment of 'go time'' to go through the mantra. I am doing more of a Rod Jenkins or Barry Wenzel style of conscience aiming with the 'man in the back' running the shot. So, it has been very very helpful but I've adapted it to my preferred style of focus on the spot 110% and let the shot be run by the subconscious

Dan

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green valley gobbler
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I have not taken Joel's course but I do employ his methods that he teaches. I recently bought his book and am reading it for the third time absorbing all I can. I suffered with target panic the entire year last year. Thought I could beat it but never could. After hunting season I installed a clicker on a new low weight target bow (70" bear tamerlane 35@28)that I got for indoor shooting, which would prove to be the best single investment I've ever made in archery as far as equipment goes. The low poundage and clicker helped me tremendously but took thousands of arrows to get used to (clicker). I had trouble "hitting" the clicker but used Joel's mantra of keep pulling said correctly and that really helped. I've recently gotten away from the clicker and am now using my psychotrigger of the string touching my eye brow, I am able to do this easily as I shoot at least 68 inch bows, I can build a small portion that touches my eyebrow up with additional serving if I need too. For shorter bow guys, a kisser works just fine too as seen in Masters of the barebow 4. This has helped me tremendously but what has really helped was the low poundage that I started with, I can't stress that enough. I am slowly moving up to my hunting weights with success. What Joel says in his book is EXACTLY the way target panic hit me and after reading and re-reading it, I now feel like I understand how to beat it, which feels great. Like Joel says, you have to work for it, no system will work for you. Would love to take the course and am considering it. I've never spoken with Joel but am thinking about calling him just to thank him for enabling me to enjoy archery once again!
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South MS Bowhunter
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McDave,

You are correct, I believe my relapse has been to only placing a patch so to speak to my draw cycle.

And now the patch has worn though and l don't have a real system to rely on to know how to fix it.

The shortcut has short circuit my mind again🙀

--------------------
Everything I have and have become is due to the Lord and his great mercy.

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The Night Stalker
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John, what trigger are you using?
I use the riser sear with a teflon washer.
It's the thought of the muscles pressing slowly that leads up to the release.
Now, I don't know if is the reaction of my finger slipping off he washer or the sound that the teflon makes triggers the release but when it happens, it is very accurate.

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Speed does not Kill, Silence Kills
Professional Bowhunters Society

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