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» Trad Gang.com » Main Forums » The Shooters FORM Forum » Learning instinctive aiming (Page 2)

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Author Topic: Learning instinctive aiming
McDave
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With the arrows full length, a 125 grain head would probably be fine for now.

What is your height? I'm wondering if your draw length is going to lengthen over time.

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Posts: 4204 | From: Sacramento, CA | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
YosemiteSam
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I'll be the odd one here, as I often am. Working on form is a given. But I wouldn't recommend somebody new try to learn instinctive at all. I'd let that come over time. If you're coming from the compound world, which I did as well, you're used to maintaining a consistent sight picture, as you would for firearms. Compounds and firearms have a consistent mantra: sight picture, sight alignment, trigger control, repeat. Trying to take that system and work some sort of "feel" with an entirely different setup sounds like an exercise in frustration. I'd try gap shooting first. Gapping lets you work on your sight picture (arrow under the eye, consistent cant, etc.), sight alignment (rear of the arrow aligned with the tip and the proper gap) and trigger control (dynamic release). After slinging a few thousand arrows downrange, you'll develop an instinctive feel. But why rush it? An expert marksman could probably shoot from the hip pretty well but only after putting in the time on the range & in the field with the fundamentals. Knowing you have a consistent sight picture, sight alignment and release lets you isolate problems with your form and equipment. If you're just "winging it" with every shot, hoping to eventually get it right, it's going to be a long journey. I've never met a single firearms instructor who advocates that somebody pick up a pistol for the first time & start point-shooting. I don't see why traditional archery is any different. Both are mechanical processes. Instinctive is some pretty cool voodoo that will come in time.
But gapping is a quicker to learn & a very reliable system. If you do your gapping method correctly, you WILL hit the target -- it's simple physics. The same can't be said of instinctive. But if you shoot long enough, you'll eventually get an instinctive feel for the shot and will likely become an instinctive or split vision archer. Give the gap method a try.

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"A good hunter...that's somebody the animals COME to."
"Every animal knows way more than you do." -- by a Koyukon hunter, as quoted by R. Nelson.

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jonwilson
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quote:
Originally posted by McDave:
What is your height? I'm wondering if your draw length is going to lengthen over time.

I am 5' 7. What would cause my draw length to change? I'm assuming you are meaning as I gain strength?

Thanks Yosemite. I appreciate the input. That is definitely something to consider.

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Posts: 138 | From: Carthage, Mississippi | Registered: Aug 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
McDave
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My experience is that people gain a little draw length during their first year of trad shooting as they become more confident drawing the bow, and also if they attend a class, such as Rod Jenkins's class, where they learn full expansion. It isn't so much gaining strength, but using your given strength on a bow you can control to get the most out of the bow. Gaining strength is more useful for learning to draw a heavier bow to your natural draw length.

At 5'7", 26.5" draw length may be close to your natural draw length, depending on the length of your arms. Given your level of experience in traditional archery, I wouldn't be surprised if you ended up,with a 27" draw length after a while. Not enough difference to really affect your arrow spine.

For target arrows, you might prefer .600 spine arrows, as your total arrow weight would be less than with .500 spine arrows, since you would have to use fairly heavy points to get the .500 spine arrows to tune. For hunting or general use, .500 spine arrows should be fine.

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TGMM Family of the Bow

I'm a man, and I can change, if I have to, I guess.

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jonwilson
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quote:
Originally posted by McDave:
At 5'7", 26.5" draw length may be close to your natural draw length, depending on the length of your arms. Given your level of experience in traditional archery, I wouldn't be surprised if you ended up,with a 27" draw length after a while. Not enough difference to really affect your arrow spine.

For target arrows, you might prefer .600 spine arrows, as your total arrow weight would be less than with .500 spine arrows, since you would have to use fairly heavy points to get the .500 spine arrows to tune. For hunting or general use, .500 spine arrows should be fine.

Thanks. So, do you still stand by the 125 grain head weight suggestion?

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Posts: 138 | From: Carthage, Mississippi | Registered: Aug 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
McDave
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Yes, with the arrows full length, 125 should work. Fortunately, points are pretty cheap, so you will probably want to try heavier points as well. Full length arrows are pretty long for a 27" draw length, so if you eventually cut them down to 28", they might fly better with 150 - 200 grain points, which also happen to be better hunting weights for broadheads. Be careful when you cut them down, though, and do it a little at a time. You might find that a 29" length and a 150 - 200 grain point works perfectly, but a 28" length is too stiff for any point of any reasonable weight.

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TGMM Family of the Bow

I'm a man, and I can change, if I have to, I guess.

Posts: 4204 | From: Sacramento, CA | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
slowbowjoe
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Can't help much with carbon spine; others here are far more experienced. I know some folks shoot .500 at your specs; with like 175, 200 grains up front. Also what I shot ( by way of recommendation) out of my 45ish bows when I tried carbons. i would definitely look at .600's and lighter points if I tried carbon again.

Now for wood, a Montana pulling around 42# at your draw length... 45/50's, 27.5 or a little more, with 125 grn points, I bet would be mighty close. 50/55's, 29 or so, with 145's... probably also in the sweet spot.

Been shooting 40-45 lbs, 27-28" draw, 100-125 points for a while.... just my .02 cents.

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tracker12
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7 years ago I picked up a recurve and started down the same path. I shoot to hunt so in the end my goal was to be able to hunt with my traditional gear. And not just hunt with trad gear but to hunt with trad gear and make all if not most of the shots I took on game. My journey has been great with many ups and downs but I am pretty comfortable with where I am today.

What I now realize is that I could have gotten to where I am today a lot sooner if I would have just applied that same techniques I used in my 40 years of shooting a compound. Now that implies you have good form with your compound. If so its all same except you are holding more weight and releasing with your fingers.

For me in the end I had to use a sighting method to be able to make sure I was doing everything else right. I set up a fixed crawl used a point on aiming method and made sure I could hit a 3" bull at 20 yards consistently. I know others that put a sight on there bow. When I could hit well with the crawl I moved my fingers up to the knock three under and stopped looking at the point. When I did everything right I hit the bull. When I don't my shot stinks. But its not because i didn't aim right instinctively but rather and bad release not coming to full draw or some other form issue.

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T ZZZZ

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Terry Green
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You can certainly try instinctive 1st...no where is it written in stone you MUST start another way cause its better....

I can't gap my way out of a paper bag....its not in my makeup. Glad I didn't go the route of trying to gap 1st. So, give instinctive a shot....if it don't work, try something else.

I still owe you a call.

Will chat again next week....

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"An anchor point is not a destination, it's an evolution to execution" - Me

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