Watch for even more bowhunting friendly legislation coming soon.
-------------------- Member: WI Bowhunters Association Member: WI Traditional Archers Member: American Broadhead Collectors Club Member: Sherwood Forest Bowmen Posts: 887 | From: SE WI | Registered: Jan 2007
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I,m sorry but I have a problem with politicians tying the hands of the DNR. I didn't care for EAB, but that was mostly over the way it was handled. Year after year gives us skewed info. If the DNR learned from that it really will not matter much as it will be taken away from them.
Be careful what you wish for when you have politicians granting those wishes.
-------------------- PBS Regular, Ask me about The Professional Bowhunters Society; we stand for ethics. President, Wisconsin Traditional Archers Life member, Wisconsin Bowhunters Compton Traditional Bowhunters Sherwood Forest Bowmen Posts: 776 | From: Menomonee Falls, WI | Registered: Dec 2007
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-------------------- Member: WI Bowhunters Association Member: WI Traditional Archers Member: American Broadhead Collectors Club Member: Sherwood Forest Bowmen Posts: 887 | From: SE WI | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Greg Szalewski: I,m sorry but I have a problem with politicians tying the hands of the DNR. I didn't care for EAB, but that was mostly over the way it was handled. Year after year gives us skewed info. If the DNR learned from that it really will not matter much as it will be taken away from them.
Be careful what you wish for when you have politicians granting those wishes.
I completely agree Greg. As much as we sometimes don't like things that the DNR does, to me by far the scariest thought is having our deer seasons controlled by politicians.
A good portion of what has gone wrong with our system is a direct result of political meddling in the process. Making decisions on the basis of trying to get re-elected or gain campaign contributions is not the way to manage our wildlife.
Passing a law that regulates the season structure with no regard to populations is nothing more than wishful thinking. I wish we could keep things the way they always were too, but wishing for it won't give anyone control of populations.
Posts: 8867 | From: Lake Mills, WI | Registered: Mar 2003
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This is a prime example of the DNR, legislators and hunting orgs working in concert. Its a thing of beauty when that happens. Everybody wins.
-------------------- Member: WI Bowhunters Association Member: WI Traditional Archers Member: American Broadhead Collectors Club Member: Sherwood Forest Bowmen Posts: 887 | From: SE WI | Registered: Jan 2007
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Are you actually saying that the DNR wildlife biologists are happy to have something like this pushed through? (I'm not talking about the politically appointed head of the DNR) All I have ever seen from the DNR is that they need a variety of tools to work with.
Sure seems like this would severely restrict the options available to them in managing the deer herd.
While I don't like some of the tools they have used, the deer herd in Wisconsin today is not the same as it was 25 years ago, and the deer hunters today do not participate the same way they did then. The landscape has changed, and tying the managers hands behind their backs does not seem wise to me.
One of the biggest problems in managing deer numbers today is that so much land access is tightly controlled. Between people like myself, who own land strictly for hunting, and the spread of leasing in many counties, the landowners control the deer herd to a large extent.
Landowners and the people who control access to the land have complete control over what gets shot on that land. Giving them unlimited antlerless tags doesn't make a bit of difference in the harvest. Land where hunters are not restricted might be wiped out of deer, while three miles down the road where they don't shoot does the property may be overrun. They only shoot what they want and will use. This bill will not change that.
I'll say it again - in my opinion, the more we involve politics in the process, the less likely we will be happy with the results we receive in the long run. Politics and wildlife management do not mix well.
Posts: 8867 | From: Lake Mills, WI | Registered: Mar 2003
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Whip, a little history for you because its important to the discussion. EAB was created in the legislature by one legislator so its fitting that is where it die. EAB was not the end result of science nor produced after a deer management study. A legislator created EAB one night because of the risk of the DNR imposing an antlerless only deer season. EAB is (was) a politically created prescription.
It is (was) perhaps the most hated prescription ever created and no doubt every person here (even you) lamenting its death, cursed EAB and wanted it gone. It got hunters so motivated they marched on Madison and hearings were held. It so screwed up SAK that the DNR violated statute by stopping the use the SAK which caused population models to be the exact opposite of true populations (which was predicted by the SAK audit team in 2006 if the DNR used EAB) It was the cause of the situation we are in now and did more damage to DNR/Hunter relations than any other action. Wildlife biologist will readily admit that EAB and accurate population estimates cant be in the same room together. Accurate population estimates are more valued than EAB and since accurate population estimates cant be done away with EAB had to go. Legislators saw EAB was a drug the DNR was addicted to and abusing so they killed their own creation.
Now, from a bowhunter's perspective Oct. gun hunts were the 2nd most hated prescription. I'm sure you and other here will admit to disliking the increased gun use and having to wear blaze orange and not being able to harvest a buck. Your not alone and the proof is the sagging participation and reduced harvest the Oct. herd control hunt was getting. People were boycotting the hunt and it to was a source of friction between not only gun and bowhunters but also deer hunters and the DNR.
What people fail to understand is that proper goal setting and accurate population estimates are the key issue here. Everything else is band aids or drugs thought to cure that only made it worse. There will be additional deer hunting legislation coming that will address the situation. A deer trustee will be named soon and there will be 3 new members of the NRB in a month. Things are improving and hunters are enjoying more say in the process regardless of how much hand wringing is taking place here.
Viva La Revolution.
-------------------- Member: WI Bowhunters Association Member: WI Traditional Archers Member: American Broadhead Collectors Club Member: Sherwood Forest Bowmen Posts: 887 | From: SE WI | Registered: Jan 2007
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Also, it would seem like the CC has no choice but to support this bill. Why you might ask???
2009 spring hearing results to question 64: Eliminate Earn-A-Buck (EAB) and October Antlerless Deer Hunts
yes: 5513 no: 1321 Passed with an 81% margin and was supported in all 72 counties.
That seems like a mandate to me and since this has already gone thorugh the CC process with overwhelming public support, legislators are doing the will of the people via the CC. this was the people telling the legislature what to do and they are listening to the people.
-------------------- Member: WI Bowhunters Association Member: WI Traditional Archers Member: American Broadhead Collectors Club Member: Sherwood Forest Bowmen Posts: 887 | From: SE WI | Registered: Jan 2007
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So in effect we do agree - you say EAB came out of the political process and turned into a nightmare. I say politics and wildlife management do not mix. We're coming at it from different directions, but I will always contend that the more we involve politics in wildlife management the worse we will be.
You look at politics as the solution to the problem. I look at it as the cause of all the problems to begin with. And I have little faith that adding more politics to the process will make it all better.
We each know where the other stands, and it's best if we simply agree to disagree.
Posts: 8867 | From: Lake Mills, WI | Registered: Mar 2003
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Yes, we agree EAB and herd control hunts sould be banned. Read the post above yours. I agree with the public. You are free to disagree with them.
-------------------- Member: WI Bowhunters Association Member: WI Traditional Archers Member: American Broadhead Collectors Club Member: Sherwood Forest Bowmen Posts: 887 | From: SE WI | Registered: Jan 2007
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I need to update a prior post by saying this bill is a perfect combination of the DNR, Legislature, certain hunting orgs, the CC and sportsmen all working in perfect harmony and via The Process" to get things done for the people. How great is that? What's not to love about such teamwork?
-------------------- Member: WI Bowhunters Association Member: WI Traditional Archers Member: American Broadhead Collectors Club Member: Sherwood Forest Bowmen Posts: 887 | From: SE WI | Registered: Jan 2007
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You make it sound as if wildlife management is better in this state since the politicians took such an active role in it.
I think there is a lot not to love about that.
At one time Wisconsin wildlife management was the envy of most every state in the country. I don't think we are still held in that regard. And I blame the introduction of politics to the process as the beginning of the downward spiral we are in. You can celebrate their involvement if you want, but I'm not buying in.
Whether we agree on EAB or Oct. antlerless hunts has nothing to do with it. And I personally have no problem with EAB when it is truly needed. (When it is needed is another debate altogether) Politics helped to make this mess, and I don't think they are capable of pulling us out of it.
Posts: 8867 | From: Lake Mills, WI | Registered: Mar 2003
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I support the votes of the people via the CC process and the legislature that listened on this matter. That is why and how the system should work and why it exists. Otherwise, why have it? The CC supports this legislation. Are you saying do away with the CC? Or are you just picking and choosing when the votes of the people should be listened to after a CC hearing?
As to when EAB is needed, using it created a flawed system that made the DNR think they needed to use it even more (as predicted by the SAK audit team in 2006) The very use of it created caused such a breakdown in the system that the population models were opposite of the true population so they used EAB even more compounding the problems. How some cant see this astounds me. Thank goodness the people (via the CC process) spoke up and the elected officials listened. government doesn't get much more perfect than that with. Remember, deer management is as much social science as it is animal science. Since the deer wont kill themselves, private game managers (hunters) and public game manager (DNR) have to work as a team to manage the resource. That is what we are seeing happening here. I think it just comes as a shock to some since its so rare when it should be the norm.
-------------------- Member: WI Bowhunters Association Member: WI Traditional Archers Member: American Broadhead Collectors Club Member: Sherwood Forest Bowmen Posts: 887 | From: SE WI | Registered: Jan 2007
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I hear all the time that the results of the CC vote should instruct legislators on what to do (and not before sportsmen vote at the spring hearings). We heard it over and over with CC baiting vote results and how people blasted past legislatures for not doing what the people voted on the spring hearings in regards to baiting. Look to this years hearing results
Question 64:
WCC process before legislative action;
"Would you support legislation requiring the procedure of allowing the CC process of public input on all matters concerning conservation, hunting, fishing, trapping, habitat, wildlife, land and water issues to take place before a law on these matters can be acted on by the legislature"
3794 yes
561 no.
That seems like a clear mandate to me as to what business we elect them to do.
All 72 counties with 81% of the voters supported eliminating EAB and Oct. herd control hunts in 09 and now the legislature is doing just that and people are actually complaining about it? What the heck? It just doesn't make any sense to me.
-------------------- Member: WI Bowhunters Association Member: WI Traditional Archers Member: American Broadhead Collectors Club Member: Sherwood Forest Bowmen Posts: 887 | From: SE WI | Registered: Jan 2007
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Not looking for a protracted debate but I think we have selective rules being applied.
-------------------- Member: WI Bowhunters Association Member: WI Traditional Archers Member: American Broadhead Collectors Club Member: Sherwood Forest Bowmen Posts: 887 | From: SE WI | Registered: Jan 2007
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