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» Trad Gang.com » Main Forums » Hunting Legislation & Policies » Crossbows Legal Now in NY (Page 2)

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Author Topic: Crossbows Legal Now in NY
Mojostick
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A few tidbits from the Michigan experience-

The vast majority of crossbow users were already bowhunters. From the research survey ordered, 74% of crossbow users had used a compound or traditional bow in the previous 3 seasons. Only 19% were firearms only hunters only, before using a crossbow and 6% of crossbow users were new to the sport (mostly youths and women in my anecdotal experience).

During the year before crossbows were legal, bowhunters using compounds and traditional bows showed a 42% success rate of taking at least one deer. In the 3 years of legal crossbows, crossbow users had lower success rates, 36%, 36% and 39% (2009-2011).

A couple other highlights from the study...

The number of people using crossbows jumped from roughly 46,000 in the first year after legalization to roughly 74,000 in year three.

In 2009, crossbow hunters killed 24,882 deer, or 5.6 percent of the 444,231 gun and bow total.

In 2010, crossbow hunters killed 38,310 deer, or 9.2 percent of the 417,850 total.

In 2011, crossbow hunters killed 54,902 deer, or 13 percent of the 422,014 total

The average age of all Michigan deer hunters is 42 and the average age of the Michigan crossbow user is 50.

After age 48, the majority of those hunting in archery season are using a crossbow. By the time they hit age 60, the ratio is roughly 2:1 in favor of crossbows.

From ages roughly 12-30 years old, the numbers are flip flopped, with those using compounds and traditional bows far outweighing crossbow users.

For adults, the ages with the highest usage of crossbows was ages 52-54. For compounds and traditional bows, the highest usage per age group was ages 39-41.

In 2006 (before crossbows legal), all Michigan deer hunters combined killed 691,000 deer and all archers combined killed 309,000 deer.

In 2011 (3 years after crossbows legal), all Michigan deer hunters killed 648,000 deer and all archery hunters killed 321,000 deer.

Other studies have shown that the typical deer hunter, considering all the fair weather and casual deer hunters, wants roughly only one deer for the freezer, per year. Freezer space is a consideration, on top of most deer hunters only eat venison on occasion. So knowing that, it appears that if anything, that crossbows have shifted 4% or 5% of the harvest from firearms season to archery season.

This is just my assumption from working at Cabela's, but with all the gray beards buying crossbows, I noticed few of the older guys wanted to climb a tree with the crossbow and add on sales of tent blinds was huge. My assumption is, many of these guys, while still having a pleasant day afield with their crossbow, have found that killing a deer from the ground, with wind and movement concerns isn't as easy as killing one from a treestand.

In my opinion, that's why the numbers are going to be a wash, in Michigan. Also, in Michigan deer baiting is huge and the older folks bait in higher numbers. If I was to guess, 90-95% of those guys 60 and older, using a crossbow out of a tent have some type of bait dumped. But what those guys will also find is, bait at 25 yards when you're at eye level isn't the same as bait out when you're 18' up in a tree. My guess is, lots of guys are busted my spooky Michigan doe's on a pile of beets and carrots, making the kill numbers about equal.

Posts: 2280 | From: Michigan | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Cold Weather
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your comments:

quote:
The issue I have with allowing Cross guns into Archery season is, It's a slippery slope.

Next, we will have arrow shooting air rifles. They already exist. Its the next step.

Our hard fought seasons were made long for a reason. Killing deer with Archery equipment is a challenge.

I think we need to draw a line in the sand.

I dont mean to be offensive, but when you call them "crossguns" you come across as extremely ignorant.

the word is crossbow.

they are definitely a type of archery equipment. It's very easy to demonstrate that.

towards the "slippery slope" that is poor logic as well. Xbows have been in archery season is WY, OH, and provinces like BC and Ont for decades. And this has not lead to non-archery equipment to be allowed in archery seasons.

why alledge something that has not occurred? And that you cannot show with facts?

it's no small wonder the anti xbow crowd keeps losing and losing.

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Fox High Sierra
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Palmer Custom Carbon
Jim Brackenbury Drifter
21 Century Earth Longbow

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bjansen
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Cold Weather, you continually miss the point that others are trying to make and fall back to your same old story that really few people on this site actually believe.
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Rob DiStefano
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quote:
Originally posted by Cold Weather:
your comments:

quote:
The issue I have with allowing Cross guns into Archery season is, It's a slippery slope.

Next, we will have arrow shooting air rifles. They already exist. Its the next step.

Our hard fought seasons were made long for a reason. Killing deer with Archery equipment is a challenge.

I think we need to draw a line in the sand.

I dont mean to be offensive, but when you call them "crossguns" you come across as extremely ignorant.

the word is crossbow.

they are definitely a type of archery equipment. It's very easy to demonstrate that.

towards the "slippery slope" that is poor logic as well. Xbows have been in archery season is WY, OH, and provinces like BC and Ont for decades. And this has not lead to non-archery equipment to be allowed in archery seasons.

why alledge something that has not occurred? And that you cannot show with facts?

it's no small wonder the anti xbow crowd keeps losing and losing.

PLEASE ... here's the deal ...

call 'em by whatever name you like, but any stick and string that can be drawn, cocked 'n' locked IS NOT archery, let alone traditional archery.

trad gang is NOT about crossbows. period. we will NOT discuss them. that has always been our policy since day one.

but we will refer to crossbows whenever their use or legislation threatens traditional archery hunting.

thank you for your understanding.

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IAM ~ Black Powder Gang ~ TANJ ~ TGMM ~ NRA Patriot Life ~ NRA RSO

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SKITCH
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Quote:
"call 'em by whatever name you like, but any stick and string that can be drawn, cocked 'n' locked IS NOT archery, let alone traditional archery. "

Thanks Rob!!! [thumbsup] [dead horse] [thumbsup]

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"A nation with little regard for it's past will do nothing in the future to be remembered"
Lincoln

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Cold Weather
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lol

of course it's archery. It's a type of a bow that shoots an arrow.

and was invented long before guns where even thought of.

one could argue compounds aren't archery. It's common to shoot the bow with a release-and now people are using laser rangefinders to determine distances.

calling a crossbow a "crossgun" just makes someone look ....silly to argue it's not archery equipment.

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Fox High Sierra
Wes Wallace Mentor
Palmer Custom Carbon
Jim Brackenbury Drifter
21 Century Earth Longbow

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Rob DiStefano
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quote:
Originally posted by Cold Weather:
lol

of course it's archery. It's a type of a bow that shoots an arrow.

and was invented long before guns where even thought of.

one could argue compounds aren't archery. It's common to shoot the bow with a release-and now people are using laser rangefinders to determine distances.

calling a crossbow a "crossgun" just makes someone look ....silly to argue it's not archery equipment.

i'm not gonna argue with you, but i am expecting you to please abide by our rules.

trad gang management does not consider the "crossbow" ("crossgun" et al) within the definition of "archery", and certainly not "traditional archery".

the reason for this is quite clear - it is a preloaded weapon that can be carried cocked 'n' locked within its own cognizance for great periods of time, like any firearm, whereas any stickbow requires the strength and abilities of a human to "cock 'n' lock" - and carry.

those are very great and vast differences. if you disagree, that is surely your entitlement, sir.

so, please - there will be no talk of the "crossbow" unless it is within the context of said weapon infringing in any manner on traditional bowhunting, and those discussions belong in this specific forum.

thank you for your understanding and please continue to enjoy trad gang.

--------------------
IAM ~ Black Powder Gang ~ TANJ ~ TGMM ~ NRA Patriot Life ~ NRA RSO

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Steve in Canton
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I want to know how the inclusion of crossbows have ever infringed on anyone's bowhunting. I choose to shoot a recurve, it is all I have ever used as a bow, I gave up on gun or muzzleloading years ago. I hunt with people who use a crossbow, they have also gave up all other forms of deer hunting.

I hunt and live in Ohio, we have one of the longest deer seasons in the country, we also have some of the best trophy deer hunting in the country and the crossbow has been legal for 40 plus years. If the crossbow was such a detriment to our bow seasons the state probably would not have added weeks to the season as they have done in recent years.

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Mojostick
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Do crossbows threaten those of us who choose to use traditional bows? If so, how?

If anything, greater numbers of hunters involved in archery seasons preserves archery seasons and will likely expand archery seasons in the future, as hunter demographics age and fewer American's hunt due to the urbanization of the world.

From what I gather, at least for deer hunting nationally, archery participation is strong and firearms participation is waning, almost crashing. Archery hunters are becoming more gung ho and the typical guy that used to only hunt firearms opener is taking up golf, as he retires in the sun belt.

In the future, we'll likely see liberalized archery tags, and archery seasons lengthening, and a drop in the "old school" casual firearms only hunter.

One could make that case that, if anyone is hurting the growth of traditional archery, it's the online militant anti-crossbow folks that seem rather detached from what the real issues are in the real hunting world and with our demographics. The folks claiming that the majority of deer hunters are opposed to crossbows and that somehow some tin foil hat lobbyists in secret backrooms are involved of the increase in interest in crossbows is rather silly and ignorant of the reality.

I know several compound hunters that are open to trying traditional bows, until they read some of the conspiracy theories online and they really don't want to be associated with the tin foil hat crowd.

Our hurdle isn't the crossbow, it's more often obesity, Medicare and the Social Security card, among others. That's some of the drags on traditional archery, for some.

The more likely reality is, traditional archery grows because fellow compound shooters, the vast majority of bow hunters, grow bored with high tech bows and look for something else from their "bow" experience and turn to traditional bows.

Everyone reading has to ask themselves the question-Is traditional archery more or less popular now than it was 5 years ago? How about 10 years ago? What about 15 years ago? The truth is, traditional archery is a growing sport, more popular now than since the 1960's and crossbows have done nothing to hurt that growth or growing popularity. Instead, given the numbers and the data, the only case to be made is the counter-intuitive case that crossbows have actually helped traditional archery grow as a sport. A mind-blowing concept, but there's little to suggest otherwise, other than boogeyman cries of Wolf!

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Al Dente
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I guess I am a militant anti-crossbow person. And I am damn proud of it. I have been in the trenches for over a decade to protect and preserve the integrity and sanctity of the archery seasons and archery only areas of NYS. I have witnessed the lies and deceit from lobbyists, and dubious outdoor writers paid for by the crossbow manufacturers. I have seen a shameless parade of "poster children" brought out to tug at heart strings, gathering pity for those pawns in the crossbow game. I have been called selfish, elitist, anti-hunter, animal rights activist, and a plethora of expletives. I do not subscribe to the "big tent" theory. I believe that archery seasons and their implements are meant to be challenging and difficult to master. That is why archery seasons take place prior to superior implements. I believe that the crossbow manufacturers decided long ago to intrude upon a season that was already in place, one that they could entice game agencies to carve up until they got full inclusion, rather than lobbying for their own season. They have a product to sell, and they want the firearms hunter to purchase their product. That is their demographic. As stated above, I am a militant anti-crossbow person, and damn proud of it.

--------------------
President
Life Member
New York Bowhunters, Inc.
>>>>------------------------>

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Cold Weather
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Al

now you are aware of the developments in the most popular form of archery bowhunting-that of a compound bow.

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Fox High Sierra
Wes Wallace Mentor
Palmer Custom Carbon
Jim Brackenbury Drifter
21 Century Earth Longbow

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dnovo
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Al,
Those are my feelings exactly. Thank you for expressing them.
Bowhunting is supposed to be more difficult than other methods and that is exactly what the allure is. It was never meant for everyone to be able to succeed at it and we shouldn't have to enable someone to do it if they can't physically
cut it. All I see now is more people trying to make it easier and that takes away from the idea.

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PBS regular
UBM life member
Compton

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Cyclic-Rivers
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I don't understand why the rifle season ever gets any attention when people want an "extra" season in place. Why is it only the archery season?


Crossbow manufacturers albeit, market the product to rifle hunters, elderly and youth.

The disabled, with a permit already had the option.

Al, I am there with you. I am not anti crossbow, just anti lazy.

Just because rifle hunters are waning, just means archery season should be extended. The rifle season here is liberal yet no attacks on their season have been made,.

Already we welcomed a youth gun season in the middle of our archery season. I am ok with this, but don't understand, with the new inclusion why our whole season has been pawned off? Yet rifle hunters still do not have to defend theirs against anything.

Thanks for hearing my vent.

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Relax,

You'll live longer!

Charlie Janssen

PBS Associate Member
Wisconsin Traditional Archers
Mohawk Hudson Traditional Archers
NY Bowhunters

>~TGMM~> <~Family~Of~The~Bow~<

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Rob DiStefano
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personally, i have no problem with most other common hunting weapons - rifles, pistols, shotguns, spears, atlatls, crossbows, knives, whatever. i use, or have used, them all at one point or another.

i do have a problem when authorities consider crossbows as part of archery (stickbows and compounds).

crossbows are NOT "archery", period. i consider them the same as any preloaded, ready-to-fire, projectile weapon that can - if need be - be aimed and released/fired with one finger. it is what it is, pure and simple. common sense dictates it's just not archery.

for folks who can't draw and hold an archery bow, and want to hunt with a broadheaded arrow/bolt, a crossbow might be the weapon for them, and that's not a good thing, it's a great thing.

since a crossbow uses preloaded and stressed limbs (or cams) to contain the projectile (bolt), that is the only difference between that weapon and a firearm that uses expanding gas to push a projectile (bullet).

imho, crossbows should not be part of the archery hunting season, and should either find their own hunting time frame or be part of the regulated firearm hunting season.

--------------------
IAM ~ Black Powder Gang ~ TANJ ~ TGMM ~ NRA Patriot Life ~ NRA RSO

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ChuckC
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I myself have to agree. I have nothing against crossguns, but I do have something against their inclusion carte blanch into our archery season.

In many places deer numbers are still high, but that is not a forever thing. Here in WI the numbers are dropping. In UP Michigan they are not what they were years ago. The countryside is changing, maturing, there is less habitat and less food for deer, and what we have / had are hurting the ecosystem by eating it. This is not conjecture, but fact.

Less deer, put under stress of more and more hunting, usually means decreased opportunity for those that do the hunting. That is already happening here in Wisconsin.

Direct impact ? I don't gun hunt here because for years the woods were orange. You couldn't park in the parking areas provided on public grounds (cause they were full) and the idiots that showed up were boundless. These are folks that do nothing to prepare all year and then beginning the week prior to season, they become proficient experts, especially at shooting deer running full bore thru a thick marshland or stand of trees.

I am out walking, scouting, and enjoying the areas I hunt (public grounds) all year and I REALLY don't want to see the woods full during the archery season too. Selfish. . you bet.

Ease of use. . come on, if someone cannot pull and hold a 35# compound bow with 80% let off then they really can't do a lot of the other things that hunting requires. There were already allowances in place (WI) for those that are elder or disabled in some way.

The next is not fact, just my own view. I believe, with all my heart, that this crossbow thing has nothing to do with large groups of people WANTING it, but it was simply a huge market for some hucksters to make a ton of new money. That's all.

We as a people are gullible and stupid. Sound excited and tell someone how you can't live without "X" and then they gotta have it.

Don't agree ? Look at our clothing / fashion market, as just one example. Give me a break, way more than half of the clothing folks buy is never worn out by the original buyer, it just goes out of style, and heaven forbid we be seen wearing something out of style.

The masses didn't demand crossbow inclusion until big business talked them into needing it, on top of all the other crap they sell us.

MONEY MONEY MONEY that's all

ChuckC

Posts: 7204 | From: Deforest, Wisconsin | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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