JOIN TRAD GANG




INFO: Trad Archery for Bowhunters




Click Here for the
Professional Bowhunters Society AUCTION 2017



Trad Gang.com Post New Topic  Post A Reply
MY PROFILE | directory login | register | search | FAQ | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Trad Gang.com » Main Forums » Hunting Legislation & Policies » Crossbows Legal Now in NY (Page 3)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!   This topic comprises 5 pages: 1  2  3  4  5   
Author Topic: Crossbows Legal Now in NY
Mojostick
Trad Bowhunter
Member # 12256

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Mojostick   Email Mojostick   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It's obvious some get really emotional about the subject, so I'll leave this topic with some light hearted thoughts. Then I'm going to go outside and shoot some vintage Bear bows. [Smile]

Just for fun, replace "crossbow makers" with "Fred Bear" and then replace "crossbow" with "compound", then replace "2014" with "1974".

Then add in the line "Become a two season hunter" (Bear's marketing push to fool gullible gun hunters into buying a bow) with "idiots".

For more fun, replace "some hucksters" with "Darton, PSE, and Bowtech". Oh, and Fred Bear.

Did you know that the founder of Parker Crossbows was not only a close friend of Fred Bear, but he worked with and for Fred Bear from 1975-84 and hunted with Fred Bear at Grousehaven every year? Now why would Fred Bear be so easily dupped?

Other random thoughts-

If bow hunting is supposed to be certain level of "challenging", should ghillie suits be legal? How about treestands? Camo? Deer bait? Scopes on rifles? GPS units? ATV's?

Should there be a hunting test before being able to buy a license?

If Fred Bear was alive, when he eventually pushed to make crossbows legal because he was the ultimate marketer and businessman, would there even have been a fight "since Fred was for them"?

Should crossbows be regulated by ATF? Should a background check be required to buy a crossbow?

Speaking of being all about money...

BEAR ARCHERY CO. WILL MOVE
Grayling to lose firm next September

GRAYLING - The verdict came in at 7 a.m. Monday. Bear Archery Company, Crawford County's largest private employer, is moving its plant to Gainesville, Fla. The relocation decision, announced after 12 months of study, ended months of waiting and speculation and reaffirmed the worst fears of Crawford County economy watchers.

The loss of the archery company will be a serious blow to a community which has, for 30 years, been known as the archery capitol of the world. The plant presently provides approximately 342 jobs, expends a $4.5 million annual payroll and attracts more than 150,000 visitors a year via its museum.

Here's how the Detroit News handled it in their Nov. 20, 1977 edition:

The reason for leaving Grayling, according to Kelly, remains economic. "We're looking at the bottom line," he said. "We're paying an average $7 an hour, counting fringe benefits. Our nearest competitor pays $4. It's as simple as that. There's Ben Pearson in Arkansas, Jennings Archery in California, Precision Shooting Equipment in Illinois and Arizona. Every year the gap between what they pay their employees and what we have to pay ours gets wider. Overall wage rates in Michigan put us in a very noncompetitive position in our field. We have to hire labor in a market where the auto industry sets the pattern. We can't pay auto industry rates and sell bows and arrows."

When asked if the UAW strike was a factor in the decision to move, Kelly went on, "We would have moved had there been no strike. Except for the first three weeks, the strike had no effect on our operations. It's been no secret that we were planning to move. Townspeople have come to us and asked, 'What can we do to help you stay here?' Really, there was nothing they could do. It was a case of looking at the bottom line and finding that we could do better in a different location. It's best for the company, I'm responsible for the well-being of the company. Whatever is necessary, I will do."

AN UGLY BREAK-UP
In that issue of The Detroit News they also quoted Joan Rasmussen, the president of the Bear Archery Employee's Association at the time and one of the most visible strikers out front of the plant: "I don't talk to scabs. I'll never talk to them again."

She had been walking the picket line for 82 weeks by that time and continued for another year until we left town.

Rasmussen, a Bear employee for 26 years, went on, "I grew up in this town and I have a lot of friends here. I found out who they were that first day when out of 200 people, 40 crossed our picket line. My friends are all out here. Nobody in this town will hire us. They tell us we're unreliable because we're involved in a labor dispute. Sixty of our people were arrested for name-calling. Fifty-nine of the cases were dismissed as soon as they got to court. This town is getting exactly what it deserves from Bear."

Posts: 2280 | From: Michigan | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rob DiStefano
Admin - Webmaster
Member # 99

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Rob DiStefano   Author's Homepage   Email Rob DiStefano   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
personally, the manufacturers economics are not my prime concern. it's the media, manufacturers and politicos who are avidly melding crossbows with archery bows that's of much greater concern. this misleading rationale - that since they both use pointy sticks with broadheads - they are one in the same is disturbingly wrong. it's like what we had to deal with before the archery-only seasons - hunting the woods with gun hunters. a crossbow IS a "gun" (of sorts). umm, no thanx, if i hafta walk the woods with others using preloaded weapons - guns and/or crossbows - count me out. guru's experience with a 30-30 bullet is a prime example of what can happen.

--------------------
IAM ~ Black Powder Gang ~ TANJ ~ TGMM ~ NRA Patriot Life ~ NRA RSO

Posts: 10044 | From: NJ | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TonyW
Contributor 2015
Member # 13086

Icon 1 posted      Profile for TonyW   Email TonyW   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
<sorry, no x-bow pics allowed>

This is not an archer.
But this shooter could probably win an Olympic gold medal in archery if they bent the rules.

[ April 10, 2014, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: Rob DiStefano ]

Posts: 1231 | From: Maryland | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
joe skipp
Trad Bowhunter
Member # 1095

Icon 1 posted      Profile for joe skipp   Email joe skipp   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The point is this is not a hand held, hand drawn weapon and this doesn't belong in our Archery season. I don't want to hear Compounds are 30" long and it's just an vertical crossbow. No it isn't.

You want to hunt with a crossbow here in NY...fine.
Not during our Archery season. Give them a few weeks in December or have them share the woods with the smoke pole crowd. Again...this is NOT a hand held, hand draw weapon. I'm adamant, stubborn on this subject and I really don't give a S**** what people who support this thinks.

--------------------
"Neal...is this heaven?" "No Piute but we are dam close". Top of the Mtn in Medicine Bow Nat Forest.

Posts: 6965 | From: Renegade Archery, Highland, NY | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Cold Weather
Trad Bowhunter
Member # 24735

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Cold Weather   Email Cold Weather   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
that pic looks a little like my xbow.o My Exalibur has recurve limbs.

shoot one!

no doubt its a bow

--------------------
Fox High Sierra
Wes Wallace Mentor
Palmer Custom Carbon
Jim Brackenbury Drifter
21 Century Earth Longbow

Posts: 155 | From: Winnipeg Manitoba | Registered: Aug 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ChuckC
Contributor 2013
Member # 1813

Icon 1 posted      Profile for ChuckC   Email ChuckC   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Fred Bear also espoused using "the POD", which nearly nobody else did. Just because he was for it doesn't mean anybody else was. Fred shot a recurve, he found no use for compounds, and, as you pointed out, that bottom line is everything.
ChuckC

Posts: 7296 | From: Deforest, Wisconsin | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rob DiStefano
Admin - Webmaster
Member # 99

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Rob DiStefano   Author's Homepage   Email Rob DiStefano   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
folks, there will be no more discussion or debate about whether crossbows are, or are not, considered "archery".

trad gang admin does NOT consider crossbows within the definition of "archery". we will not entertain arguments to the contrary, so please do not bother sending us emails or pm's.

we ONLY allow non-trad archery weapons threads with regards to how such weapons might affect our trad archery bowhunting seasons, mostly in terms of legislation and politics.

thank you for your understanding.

--------------------
IAM ~ Black Powder Gang ~ TANJ ~ TGMM ~ NRA Patriot Life ~ NRA RSO

Posts: 10044 | From: NJ | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Steve in Canton
Trad Bowhunter
Member # 2626

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Steve in Canton   Email Steve in Canton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I still want to know how a crossbow hunter affects my choice of hunting with my recurve, we choose to hunt with our traditional bows, they choose to hunt with a crossbow.

We can still go to the woods and hung with our bows and we are the minority in archery. Let's keep making a big stink and have them turn the tables on us and try to get our bows banned from archery season.

Posts: 313 | From: Canton Ohio | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ronp
CONTRIBUTOR 2018
Member # 7846

Icon 1 posted      Profile for ronp   Email ronp   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Steve, of course it doesn't impact your choice to use a recurve. But it looks like anybody that wants to hunt with a cross bow in NY will be required to purchase a MUZZLELOADER tag, not an archery tag. Is that an underhanded way to get muzzleloaders into archery season, which is what we are worried about?

--------------------
Ron Purdy

TGMM Family of the Bow
MTB

Posts: 5484 | From: Parish, New York | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rob DiStefano
Admin - Webmaster
Member # 99

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Rob DiStefano   Author's Homepage   Email Rob DiStefano   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
consider this ...

during hunting season, when you are stalking game in the bush, or up a tree hunting deer or bear, at the exact same time do you mind sharing the woods with a centerfire firearm hunter, or a muzzleloader hunter, or a crossbow hunter? all preloaded weapons with a finger on a trigger.

it's not about the weapon of choice, it's about immediately sharing your hunting venue with a non-archery weapon hunter - and at the very least, considering crossbows as archery - no, it's NOT. and no, no thank you.

this is clearly a money game, because logic and common sense aren't part of the grand scheme.

--------------------
IAM ~ Black Powder Gang ~ TANJ ~ TGMM ~ NRA Patriot Life ~ NRA RSO

Posts: 10044 | From: NJ | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ChuckC
Contributor 2013
Member # 1813

Icon 1 posted      Profile for ChuckC   Email ChuckC   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Rob, another consideration, not a safety factor, but one that could, I said COULD, affect my season.

Seasons are based upon need, with many or most Departments looking to effect a certain kill and also to present the maximum user hours to achieve that kill. In other words, If bows were 100 % effective (success rate). . if everybody that carried a bow killed a deer, or two, or three, then a certain kill would be expected. In addition, if the number of folks that carry a bow double, it stands to reason that the total kill (but not necessarily the success rate) will increase. Not to mention the crowds that would be using the same areas.

For much of the US that sort of achievement could not support a a multi month season. Face it, I am allowed to carry my bow in WI (for deer) from mid September till the end of the year. That would not be possible with high success rates.

By continually adding weapons or improvements to the existing weapons that boost the success rate, it stands to reason that it will affect my season down the road. Sure, there have been high numbers of deer for the past 10 - 15 years, but that wasn't the way it was in the past and it won't remain that way forever.

ChuckC

Posts: 7296 | From: Deforest, Wisconsin | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rob DiStefano
Admin - Webmaster
Member # 99

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Rob DiStefano   Author's Homepage   Email Rob DiStefano   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
good thoughts, chuck.

--------------------
IAM ~ Black Powder Gang ~ TANJ ~ TGMM ~ NRA Patriot Life ~ NRA RSO

Posts: 10044 | From: NJ | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ronp
CONTRIBUTOR 2018
Member # 7846

Icon 1 posted      Profile for ronp   Email ronp   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
consider this ...

during hunting season, when you are stalking game in the bush, or up a tree hunting deer or bear, at the exact same time do you mind sharing the woods with a centerfire firearm hunter, or a muzzleloader hunter, or a crossbow hunter? all preloaded weapons with a finger on a trigger.

it's not about the weapon of choice, it's about immediately sharing your hunting venue with a non-archery weapon hunter - and at the very least, considering crossbows as archery - no, it's NOT. and no, no thank you.

this is clearly a money game, because logic and common sense aren't part of the grand scheme.

Very well said, Rob.

--------------------
Ron Purdy

TGMM Family of the Bow
MTB

Posts: 5484 | From: Parish, New York | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TonyW
Contributor 2015
Member # 13086

Icon 1 posted      Profile for TonyW   Email TonyW   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My concern is sharing the woods with convicted felons who are not allowed to use firearms and do not even want to develop the skill set needed for a compound bow.

In Maryland, there is a radio host/convicted felon who uses a crossbow because he can't use gunpowder. This guy is a jovial but dirty ex-cop, and was convicted for misusing funds. This got me thinking about less harmless felons roaming the woods with cross bows.

Loved the short story by Richard Connell, but I don't want to become "The Most Dangerous Game" for some ex-con with an itchy trigger finger.

Posts: 1231 | From: Maryland | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Steve in Canton
Trad Bowhunter
Member # 2626

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Steve in Canton   Email Steve in Canton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Once again people are letting emotions get in front of facts. Ohio has one of the longest seasons in the country starting in September and lasting into Febuary, we also have some of the best trophy hunting in the US and all of this with crossbows being legal for 40 plus years.

We do not have people walking around the woods shooting at movement with crossbows so the hand on the trigger analogy holds no water.

That same criminal can use a recurve, but I guess that if they do use a recurve it would be alright because they are shooting traditional.

I want to see facts about how the use of crossbows is detrimental to archery seasons, so far I have seen nothing from anyone to prove where seasons or bag limits have been lowered because of crossbows.

Posts: 313 | From: Canton Ohio | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 5 pages: 1  2  3  4  5   

Quick Reply ~ PLEASE THINK BEFORE YOU POST! - Is your post trad bowhunting related? Check the FAQ or EMAIL if you're unsure!
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Shoot On Over To:


Contact Us | Trad Gang.com © | Privacy Statement

Copyright 2003 thru 2017 ~ Trad Gang.com ©

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.1