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» Trad Gang.com » Main Forums » Hunting Legislation & Policies » Missouri Dept of Conservation-Bad Decisions (Page 2)

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Author Topic: Missouri Dept of Conservation-Bad Decisions
snapper1d
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I have used one and sorry to say I am using one now.Old age and arthritis has been creeping up to where I can get around so well like I used to.Cant shoot a bow like I used too either.Now all I can shoot is one of the 32# bows I have and that wont get it for hunting.
Posts: 280 | From: El Dorado,Arkansas | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
halfseminole
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Here in AL they're getting to be pretty popular, but as I can hunt my own land I haven't had to worry as much. Yes, it's archery, but I'm betting if I showed up with a cho ko nu (Chinese repeating crossbow, self cocking and loading) they'd probably rethink their decision. It saves deer from marginal weight shots, but I'm not so sure it makes their aim any better.

I don't think anyone's downing the disabled for using them here. I'm still hunting with my horsebows after becoming wheelchair bound as a result of my genetic condition, but for a disabled hunter I see no shame. It's the lazy people that I take exception to. There's no room for laziness when hunting.

Posts: 968 | From: Jasper, Alabama | Registered: Apr 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jakeemt
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I like them myself. I would use a recurve type crossbow if the mood suited me. I also like trad bows though and find that they have several advantages over any cross bow if you can get good enough. I have no problem with them.
Posts: 810 | From: Missouri | Registered: Jan 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Brock
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it is all about money.... a crossbow allows someone to buy one in the morning...spend 30 minutes sightin in the scope...and be in the woods that evening to "bowhunt" when they have no real interest in bowhunting and only want what is EASY and the current fad as seen on television.

they are NOTHING like bows....they have a stock, a trigger, optical sights and can be cocked and carried like that almost indefinitely..even with bolt loaded and ready to go. When time comes you put crosshair or red dot on animal and squeeze trigger with absolutely NO MOVEMENT for the animal to detect. NO CHALLENGE at all other than getting close...and even then a 30-40yd shot is no problem even for a beginner. It is all about instant gratification, no effort, and more sales for AMA and state in licenses....and is not bowhunting.

I dont believe the hype about exposing kids to bowhunting as it is nothing related to bowhunting....teach them to shoot a fiberglass youth bow...then move up to glass backed recurve or longbow...archery is about being hand drawn, hand released, held in mostly vertical position with arrows.

When I see men that are blind, have lost fingers, have loss of muscle mass, arthritis shooting traditional bows....I lose any acceptance of everyone saying they do it for medical reasons.

For myself...if I ever get to where I cannot draw a bow myself that is of suitable hunting weight....then I will stop bowhunting and pick up my old .54cal front loading true muzzleloader with iron sights, granuled black powder and lead ball or conical bullets ignited with flint or #11 percussion caps....none of this scoped, pellet, sabot bullet, shotgun primer, rear primed rifles that just happen to shoot something with black powder components that are accurate out over 200 yds all day long.

I will instead mentor my grand children, nephews and nieces and neighborhood kids on what real bowhunting and archery is.....help them shoot...help them build osage and hickory selfbows...and teach them woodsmanship, animal characteristics, and that shooting a doe or small buck is every bit as challenging and commendable as the farm raised deer and multi-thousand dollar canned hunts where the "Pro " or their child shows up and shoots a 180+ deer for their FIRST DEER!

Primitive weapon seasons were started to give primitive hunters an option to hunt without competing with the modern weapons. Allowing modern muzzleloaders and crossbows into these primitive seasons is an abomination....and only there to make money. If these people really loved bowhunting and muzzleloader hunting they would be using the intended weapons. THey are trying to get more animals on the ground using the most technology legally allowed for instant gratification without any or minimal effort...same as most do with rifles and shotguns...they shoot them one time if lucky to sight in and dont touch them until they pull the trigger again on an animal.

It disgusts me....


Now if someone wants to use a crossbow in the general firearms season...so be it...more power to them and as long as they make every effort to be practiced with the weapon and take ethical shots....good on them if it keeps them in the woods.

Just keep it out of the bowhunting seasons....even if person is claiming disability...doesnt matter...shoot it in general firearms season....nothing says everyone has to be able to do anything they want to do...sometimes you just dont have the skill or the physical stamina. In those cases you focus on other sports or options...you dont force the multitude to lower the standards so you can try it out using a weapon that has nothing in common with those that you claim to aspire.

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Keep em sharp,

Ron Herman
Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Backcountry Hunters & Anglers
PBS Assoc since 1988
NRA Life
USAF Retired (1984-2004)

Posts: 1763 | From: Charleston, South Carolina | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
halfseminole
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I guess I should have clarified my point. Primitive crossbows I still consider part of archery, what with no sights and much effort needed in cocking and resetting the machine. The new ones are pretty much bowguns.

I know that I'm in your category of people who do anyway with disease-two strokes, untreatable damage leaving me wheelchair bound and a genetic condition trashing my body and I still shoot a 45-50 pound horn bow for hunting. I've seen people who are injured worse than me and I wonder what to do for them. There's nothing like being unable to do what you could before. It's its own special hell. Do we give them compounds with 95% letoff? Do we allow only them to use crossbows? what do we do?

I agree with getting them out of our bow season. Just a little research convinced me of that. But how do we help our disabled hunters best-especially all the vets that come back torn apart that still would hunt and defend our rights in the woods?

Posts: 968 | From: Jasper, Alabama | Registered: Apr 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jakeemt
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I just don't see any real difference between a 85% let off compound with optical sights, a trigger release, and a 32 in ata length. If we allow that in the archery season then we should allow crossbows. A lot of people talk about how it's so easy to shoot a crossbow but really it's no easier than a compound. As an example I wanted my dad to bow hunt with me. He has never bow hunted before and said he didn't have the time to dedicate to trad. So we went out and got him a compound. After getting sighted in he had a 20 yard group of 4 inches. That's in about 10 minutes and had never shot a bow before, I doubt you could do much better with a crossbow and the two weapon's trajectories are nearly identical. It took me a year of practicing 5 days a week to be able to do that sometimes. Often my groups at 20 were closer to 8 inches. I don't care though. I like to hunt with trad gear because I enjoy it I just dig it and accept that I have pretty big disadvantages. If it gets my old man out hunting with me then I say ok. If it gets other people out to hunt then that's ok with me too.
Posts: 810 | From: Missouri | Registered: Jan 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Bill Leeming
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Well said Darren !!!
Posts: 76 | From: Mountain View,MO | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dnovo
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We should leave the disabled out of this because everyone knows they have been able to getb crossbow permits for many years.
It seems like quite of few of the folks who are more accepting of the croosbow are younger people. If I'm wrong on this then I'm wrong.
However I don't think many of those have any idea of or even bother to look back at the history of bowhunting and what it took to even make it legal.
Maybe then they would start to understand why we try to protect the sanctity of a true bowhunting season. Unfortunately now it seems to be a "how quick can I kill something and get back home" type of hunt. Do we want hunters who aren't interested enough to work a little bit to learn to bowhunt, but still want in our season with a weapon that mostly resembles the rifle they normally use?

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PBS regular
UBM life member
Compton

Posts: 1561 | From: Imperial, MO | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Bonebuster
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Crossbows were legalized a few years ago in Michigan and they have LITERALLY taken over.

The DNR requires a free stamp to be obtained, I guess so they can THINK they know how many people are hunting with one...I can tell you, most people DO NOT get the stamp.

I spent a lot of time hunting ALL OVER the state on public land, and I ran into DOZENS of other "bowhunters" and only ONE was carrying a compound...O N E !!!!! The rest were crossbows.

I find it interesting, that in the outdoor magazines and publications that when someone kills a deer with a BOW, it is usually in the picture...now with crossbows, they show the picture, the date which tells you it was killed in bow season, but there is NO BOW in the picture...this is because it was killed with a CROSSGUN and not a bow.

Posts: 3495 | From: Michigan | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
bjansen
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Missouri is allowing the public to comment on the idea in the following link:

http://mdc.mo.gov/about-us/public-notices/deer-management-open-houses/deer-management-comments

This link is being sent around to the x bow users to try to rally support, and I think it would be a good idea to take 5 minutes to let them know where we stand on this as well. I submitted my statement today.

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ronp
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Good luck Missouri. New York now allows them for parts of archery season. BUT, in NY you will need a muzzleloading tag to hunt with one in archery season, and not an archery tag. I guess our leaders here think they are closer to a muzzle loading rifle than a bow...

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Ron Purdy

TGMM Family of the Bow
NYTB
MTB

Posts: 5447 | From: Parish, New York | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
CoachBGriff
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I have no problem with people hunting with X-guns. I just have a major problem with them being legal during archery season.

Why not just allow rifles during muzzle loader season? Rifles, like muzzle-loaders, shoot a bullet shaped projectile - just a little further, faster, and more accurate; X-guns must be bows too because they shoot an arrow-shaped projectile - just further, faster, and more accurate.

It has nothing to do with getting kids involved - it also, as they are claiming, has nothing to do with herd management.

It has EVERYTHING to do with selling more tags and more crossbows, and it makes me sick that our conservation systems are working so hard to develop the European model of hunting here in America.

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For we did not follow cleverly contrived myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ; instead, we were eyewitnesses of His majesty.
2 Peter 1:16

Posts: 1129 | From: Missouri | Registered: Jul 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
CoachBGriff
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quote:
Originally posted by bjansen:
Missouri is allowing the public to comment on the idea in the following link:

http://mdc.mo.gov/about-us/public-notices/deer-management-open-houses/deer-management-comments

This link is being sent around to the x bow users to try to rally support, and I think it would be a good idea to take 5 minutes to let them know where we stand on this as well. I submitted my statement today.

Thanks for the link! I've left my comments, and I even tried to sound civil about it (although I'm infuriated because it's 100% about how many permits and crossbows they can sell).

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For we did not follow cleverly contrived myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ; instead, we were eyewitnesses of His majesty.
2 Peter 1:16

Posts: 1129 | From: Missouri | Registered: Jul 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Critch
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I'm not happy with the crossbow decision by our Conservation Department. I'm not close minded to the idea of allowing crossbows to bring people in, but , human nature being what it is, I'm afraid that many will just use it as an easy way out.

I also don't care for being allowed to use centerfire pistols during blackpowder season; I don't blackpowder hunt myself, but this just doesn't seem right either.

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I don't know if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or imbeciles who mean it. -Mark Twain

Posts: 9 | From: Missouri | Registered: Jul 2014  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
A. Kinslow
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Just got this today 2/3/15 via email. Public meetings regarding crossbow regulations and season limit changes are now scheduled. Also online comments available. More details below:

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MDC seeks public input on proposed deer hunting regulation changes

Possible changes involve firearms season lengths, use of crossbows, archery bag limits, regulations on conservation areas, and non-resident permit fees.


JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. – The Missouri Department of Conservation (MDC) is seeking public input on proposed changes to the state’s deer hunting regulations for the 2016-2017 hunting season.

For the fall firearms deer season, MDC proposes:

Maintaining the current timing of the November portion but reducing the length from 11 days to nine days,
Expanding the late youth firearms weekend from two days to three days and having it begin the Friday after Thanksgiving instead of early January,
Reducing the length of the antlerless firearms portion from 12 days to three days and beginning it on the first Friday in December, and
Eliminating the urban zones portion.

For the fall archery deer and turkey season, MDC proposes:

Allowing crossbows as a legal method, and
Reducing the limit of antlered deer during the archery season from two to one.

MDC also proposes simplifying conservation area regulations and also wants public comment on permit fees for nonresidents regarding a possible increase, decrease, or no change in price.

The proposed regulation changes are a result of public input and MDC deer management research and practices. During the summer of 2014, MDC gathered more than 4,000 public comments on deer management and possible regulation changes through open houses, online comments, letters and emails. MDC also surveyed many deer hunters regarding potential regulation changes. MDC staff will present final regulations recommendations to the Conservation Commission in late 2015.

MDC WELCOMES PUBLIC COMMENT

To explain the proposed changes and gather public feedback, MDC will hold the following public meetings around the state from 5 to 8 p.m.:

Feb. 24 – MDC Burr Oak Woods Nature Center, 1401 N.W. Park Road in Blue Springs;
Feb. 26 – MDC Powder Valley Nature Center, 11715 Cragwold Road in Kirkwood;
March 3 – MDC Springfield Nature Center, 4601 S. Nature Center Way in Springfield;
March 5 -- West Plains Civic Center, 110 St. Louis St. in West Plains;
March 10 – MDC Cape Girardeau Nature Center, 2289 County Park Drive in Cape Girardeau;
March 12 – MDC Northeast Regional Office, 3500 S. Baltimore in Kirksville;
March 16 – MDC Central Regional Office, 3500 E. Gans Road in Columbia; and
March 31 – MDC Northwest Regional Office, 701 James McCarthy Drive in St. Joseph.

MDC also welcomes public comments online. To learn more about the proposed regulations, MDC’s deer management plan, past public comments, and to provide comment, visit the Department’s website at mdc.mo.gov/node/28079.

Mail comments to: Missouri Department of Conservation, Attn: Policy Coordination, P.O. Box 180, Jefferson City, MO 65102.

RATIONALE FOR REGULATION CHANGES

MDC expanded the November portion of firearms deer season to 11 days in 1995 in response to a rapidly growing deer population in many parts of the state. Deer numbers in most parts of Missouri are now at or below desired levels. According to MDC biologists, reducing the length of the November portion by two days will help increase those numbers.

The Department’s reasoning for changing the timing of the late youth portion from early January to the weekend after Thanksgiving is that it should increase youth-hunter participation and success as a result of better deer activity and weather conditions. Adding the Friday after Thanksgiving will provide an additional hunting day when schools are closed.

MDC anticipates that reducing the length of the antlerless season from 12 days to three days will help increase deer numbers to more desirable levels. The antlerless portion of the firearms deer season was implemented in 1996 to increase the harvest of female deer, or does, in response to a rapidly growing deer population in many parts of the state. The deer population in most of Missouri is currently at or below desired levels.

According to MDC, eliminating the urban zones portion of the firearms season is being considered because firearms hunting in urban zones is significantly limited by city ordinances and safety concerns. As a result, this portion does not significantly lower deer numbers in areas where urban deer conflicts occur.

The department anticipates that allowing crossbows as a legal method during the archery deer and turkey season will help younger hunters enter the sport and also prolong participation for older hunters. MDC research shows that most deer hunters are in favor of allowing crossbows during the archery season and bow hunters are about equally divided on the topic.

Reducing the buck harvest during archery season from two to one per hunter will make hunters more selective and help more bucks reach older age-classes. Regulations allowing bow hunters to harvest two bucks were implemented in 1988 when there were fewer than 100,000 individuals with a permit to hunt deer during the archery season compared to more than 180,000 in 2013. Also, the harvest of bucks by bow hunters has nearly doubled from 11 percent of the total harvest in 2000 to 19 percent in 2013.

The Department anticipates that simplifying deer hunting regulations on conservation areas to archery only, archery and muzzleloader only, or archery and firearms will both increase hunter satisfaction and allow area managers to adjust regulations based on current deer numbers.

MDC permit fees for nonresident hunters are competitive with those of surrounding states and have remained the same since 2009.

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“In the end we will conserve only what we love. We will love only what we understand. We will understand only what we are taught." -- Baba Dioum

Posts: 606 | From: Rogersville, Missouri | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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