JOIN TRAD GANG




INFO: Trad Archery for Bowhunters



CLICK HERE TO LEAP TO THE
2017 ST. JUDE AUCTION FORUMS


Trad Gang.com Post New Topic  Post A Reply
MY PROFILE | directory login | register | search | FAQ | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Trad Gang.com » Main Forums » Hunting Legislation & Policies » Crossguns in PA (Page 2)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!   This topic comprises 5 pages: 1  2  3  4  5   
Author Topic: Crossguns in PA
Ron Vought
Contributor 2015
Member # 393

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ron Vought   Email Ron Vought   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The majority of crossgun hunters that I talk too hunt with the crossgun because they have "limited time" and are too busy to practice with a hand drawn bow. Makes me laugh because the first thing that goes through my head is that they are just plain lazy. They basically admit the crossgun is a shortcut for them so I also label them 'opportunists'. I just scratch my head after talking to crossgun hunters and their mindset on archery. They are just looking for something easy that extends their hunting opportunity. Just a way different crowd of people we could probably do without in the woods.

Ron

Posts: 1167 | From: South East, PA | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Krex1010
Trad Bowhunter
Member # 42398

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Krex1010   Email Krex1010   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I don't know about labeling them all lazy Ron, my cousin has 4 kids, works his behind off for about 60 hours a week, helps out in youth sports, always puts his family first. He also cannot shoot a bow at his house so he has to come to my house or another place to shoot. He also loves to hunt, he may only have time to get out 4 or 5 days a year. Should he have to wait to hunt until his kids are older and he has more time to devote to archery? I mean who am I to tell him he's wrong? I never consider myself a more noble hunter because I'm choosing to go the trad route. Take a broader view, I'm sure we all do things in life that someone could point at and say "that's the easy way." I don't know, maybe I'm off base, it wouldn't be the first time, and please understand I'm not judging anyone for their feelings, this is just debate which I think is healthy.

--------------------
45@28 bear montana
47@27 mad dog prairie predator
"You can't cheat the mountain pilgrim"

Posts: 278 | From: Pa | Registered: Oct 2014  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rob DiStefano
Admin - Webmaster
Member # 99

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Rob DiStefano   Author's Homepage   Email Rob DiStefano   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
i hear ya, keith, and there's valid merit to what you say. hopefully yer cousin knows his limits and can make a reasonably good call when to drop the string, be it trad bow or wheel bow or crossgun.

but that is not the real issue at hand.

it's about the difference between a hand drawn bow and a latched and locked ready-to-fire finger-on-the-trigger crossgun.

it's about the politico's decision that crossguns are archery, when clearly they are not.

i don't want gun hunters sharing the same hunting time slot and venue as a bowhunter, no matter what style of hand drawn bow is used.

--------------------
IAM ~ Black Powder Gang ~ TANJ ~ TGMM ~ NRA Patriot Life ~ NRA RSO

Posts: 10031 | From: NJ | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ron Vought
Contributor 2015
Member # 393

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ron Vought   Email Ron Vought   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Keith most of the people who I know and talk to about a crossgun want instantaneous success and opportunity...period. They don't want to put anytime into practicing with a hand drawn bow. Too me its just lazy but maybe I see things differently. Your right not all are lazy but I have to ask why one would want to use a crossgun to begin with. I went out with my dad at 12 years old with a Bear recurve and couldn't wait to get back into the woods once we left for the day of ground hunting and stalking. It wasn't about insteaneous success and opportunity. Maybe a earlier generation mindset but we were taught woodsman skills and when you did get a deer you felt like it was earned.

Ron

Posts: 1167 | From: South East, PA | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Krex1010
Trad Bowhunter
Member # 42398

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Krex1010   Email Krex1010   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ron, I don't know about you, but I don't expect everyone else to want to do things the same way as me. Most of the guys I know who use crossbows are passionate hunters, they scout, they improve habitat, most have diverse hunting interests. I mean I would feel like a snob to say that the way I choose to do something is the only honorable and proper way to do something. I hear plenty of people who question why I would want to use a traditional bow, some people feel we owe it to the animal we hunt to be the most accurate, humane killer we can be, and let's be honest, there are only so many Howard Hills, the vast majority of us will never shoot our trad bows as well as a compound or crossbow, but we make our own choice. I personally will never hunt an animal I don't enjoy eating (wolf, coyote, bear) and I will never go on a guided hunt, because I want to be responsible for finding my own animal in my home woods, but i would never judge another hunter who chooses to hunt wolves or go on a guided elk hunt. Hunt and let hunt my friend, we only live once seize your own day and let others do the same.

--------------------
45@28 bear montana
47@27 mad dog prairie predator
"You can't cheat the mountain pilgrim"

Posts: 278 | From: Pa | Registered: Oct 2014  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ron Vought
Contributor 2015
Member # 393

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ron Vought   Email Ron Vought   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I really don't care about the crossgun as a weapon itself but I do care about the negative impact it could possibly have on our archery seasons. I think most just assume the bow season will stay in tact however for example if the biologists feel that too many bucks are being taken prior to the rut then there could be an impact to our season. The crossguns in PA are driving harvest limits upwards. The crossgun is the main contributor. As more people rush out and buy crossguns my fear is our season is in jeopardy of being shortened and there is definitely no opportunity at an extension. Everyone has to think about the deer management initiatives and the impact a weapon can have on our seasons.

Ron

Posts: 1167 | From: South East, PA | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Krex1010
Trad Bowhunter
Member # 42398

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Krex1010   Email Krex1010   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I hear you there Ron. I don't want the season shortened. I'm in south east pa as well, crossbows have been legal here for about 10 years ( that's a guess on my part) but the archery season has been opening earlier the last few years, basically we can hunt from late September through the end of January with only a couple days off. Is there serious talk of shortening the season? Or is it just a fear? As an aside Ron, please don't take offense to my playing devils advocate to you, Im enjoying this discussion with you.

--------------------
45@28 bear montana
47@27 mad dog prairie predator
"You can't cheat the mountain pilgrim"

Posts: 278 | From: Pa | Registered: Oct 2014  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ChuckC
Contributor 2013
Member # 1813

Icon 1 posted      Profile for ChuckC   Email ChuckC   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
All it takes is a couple bad winters or a bout of blue tongue and everything changes.

Wisconsin had more tags than I would ever want to fill, including unlimited doe tags for my area, till this year.

During 2014 nearly half the state had no doe tags. Now add a whole bunch more hunters that have a way better chance of killing something to the mix and what is the likely outcome ?

Archery season was made to encompass a long period of time because the odds of success were a lot smaller than during gun season. If we keep making it easier and the odds keep go up, it will affect the seasons, one way or another.

Not fear, not guess, but future factoid.

We have been blessed, or cursed with large burgeoning deer herds during the last twenty or so years. It wasn't always like that and it won't always be like that.

ChuckC

Posts: 7241 | From: Deforest, Wisconsin | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Krex1010
Trad Bowhunter
Member # 42398

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Krex1010   Email Krex1010   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Chuck I don't know of anything that's future factoid besides death, taxes and that I'll do something in the next few days that will annoy my wife lol. I get it, this is a traditional archery forum and crossbows go against everything that most people here believe in. I just don't buy them as a boogieman that is ruining archery hunting. In Pennsylvania license sales haven't gone up significantly since they were legalized, and I don't think archery tag sales have increased significantly either, it's basically the same hunters only some have crossbows, maybe a few guys that used to just hunt rifle now buy archery tags. I hang with a lot of hunters, all different types. I'm not old but Im not a young pup either. Here's what I've seen, some guys fill tags every year, some don't. The weapon doesn't make the hunter, I know guys that killed several deer every year with a compound and switched to crossbows, they kill the same deer. I know guys who didn't fill tags with compounds and still don't since they switched to crossbows. I know rifle hunters that get deer every year and rifle hunters that go years between kills. Give a lazy compound hunter a crossbow and he won't all of a sudden be stacking deer up, because he won't do the work it takes to scout and get on deer. Crossbows may be rearranging the deer harvest a little as some guys that didn't used to archery hunt now do, but if they are a good hunter that just means that they kill a buck in October instead of a month later when rifle season opens.

--------------------
45@28 bear montana
47@27 mad dog prairie predator
"You can't cheat the mountain pilgrim"

Posts: 278 | From: Pa | Registered: Oct 2014  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rob DiStefano
Admin - Webmaster
Member # 99

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Rob DiStefano   Author's Homepage   Email Rob DiStefano   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
keith, perhaps you miss the point of some, including me.

i have nothing against the crossbow per se ... except when it morphs into a crossgun, is put into the categories of "archery" and "bowhunting", and is allowed to be used during archery hunting season, at archery hunting venues.

crossguns take the sport of killing game into the realm of the firearm.

cocked 'n' locked is the defining prime concern. these are weapons that any fool who has a trigger finger can use. a mere child can load and hunt with a 150# crossgun, just as easily as he/she can with a winchester .30-30 as both are preloaded and both easily fired.

there are clearly two camps of bowhunters, with trad bows the most primitive, followed by the wheel and cam crowd. crossguns both trump those easily and have a clear advantage.

so ... the only beef i have with crossbows is when they become crossguns and enter the bowhunting season and venues.

--------------------
IAM ~ Black Powder Gang ~ TANJ ~ TGMM ~ NRA Patriot Life ~ NRA RSO

Posts: 10031 | From: NJ | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Krex1010
Trad Bowhunter
Member # 42398

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Krex1010   Email Krex1010   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I understand what you're saying Rob. This is just a situation where something bothers you that doesn't bother me. I don't see the negative in some guys taking the crossbow shortcut. I'm sure there are things hunting related that bother me that you don't think twice about. We don't agree on this topic and that's fine, if we all agreed on everything there would be little to talk about.

--------------------
45@28 bear montana
47@27 mad dog prairie predator
"You can't cheat the mountain pilgrim"

Posts: 278 | From: Pa | Registered: Oct 2014  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rob DiStefano
Admin - Webmaster
Member # 99

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Rob DiStefano   Author's Homepage   Email Rob DiStefano   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
i dunno how more clear i can make my position ...

i don't care if someone uses a crossgun for hunting - THAT is NOT a problem.

THE PROBLEM is when the politicians decide to allow that crossgun during ARCHERY season, at ARCHERY venues. this is the EXACT same as allowing firearms to hunt the same time and place as REAL archery bowhunting.

--------------------
IAM ~ Black Powder Gang ~ TANJ ~ TGMM ~ NRA Patriot Life ~ NRA RSO

Posts: 10031 | From: NJ | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Krex1010
Trad Bowhunter
Member # 42398

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Krex1010   Email Krex1010   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Rob, I clearly understand your position. I just don't share your stance on it. I'm willing to share the woods with crossbow hunters, grouse hunters, squirrel hunters, I don't put my pursuits ahead of anyone else's. I can accept that you don't feel the same as me, if you cannot accept that I don't feel the same as you...well that's your issue. I'm not trying to change your mind, just explaining why I feel the way I do.

--------------------
45@28 bear montana
47@27 mad dog prairie predator
"You can't cheat the mountain pilgrim"

Posts: 278 | From: Pa | Registered: Oct 2014  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rob DiStefano
Admin - Webmaster
Member # 99

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Rob DiStefano   Author's Homepage   Email Rob DiStefano   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
why is there an archery season and a firearm season?

--------------------
IAM ~ Black Powder Gang ~ TANJ ~ TGMM ~ NRA Patriot Life ~ NRA RSO

Posts: 10031 | From: NJ | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Krex1010
Trad Bowhunter
Member # 42398

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Krex1010   Email Krex1010   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
in PA the firearm season was the original deer season, archery seasons were added later. And I'm sorry but hunting with a crossbow is similar to firearms in aiming, and firing only. Crossbows have about the same effective range as a compound, are limited by arrow drop like a compound. They don't shoot through brush, outside of 30 yards you have to really account for yardage, like a compound. The only real "in the woods" advantage a crossbow has over a compound is less movement to fire, which is really only a major advantage to ground hunters who aren't in a blind. Are crossbows easier to be accurate with? Yes yes yes yes and yes, but to me how hard a weapon is to master shouldn't be the deciding factor as to whether it should be legal in a particular season. I just simply do not agree that hunting with a crossbow is the same as with a firearm. Just because a crossbow can do fancy things at long range on the shooting bench doesn't necessarily translate to huge advantages in the deer woods. I don't hunt with my trad bow yet, I'm not ready. I still hunt with my compound. I've shot crossbows, guys I hunt with use them. I'm familiar with what they can and can't do. When I'm in a treestand or blind with my bow, I honestly do not believe a crossbow would give me much of an advantage on killing a deer.

--------------------
45@28 bear montana
47@27 mad dog prairie predator
"You can't cheat the mountain pilgrim"

Posts: 278 | From: Pa | Registered: Oct 2014  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 5 pages: 1  2  3  4  5   

Quick Reply ~ PLEASE THINK BEFORE YOU POST! - Is your post trad bowhunting related? Check the FAQ or EMAIL if you're unsure!
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Shoot On Over To:


Contact Us | Trad Gang.com © | Privacy Statement

Copyright 2003 thru 2017 ~ Trad Gang.com ©

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.1