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» Trad Gang.com » Main Forums » Hunting Legislation & Policies » Crossguns in PA (Page 3)

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Author Topic: Crossguns in PA
Rob DiStefano
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just to be clear, and with full disclosure in mind, back in the late 50's to mid 60's my dad and i built and shot crossbows using car springs for the prods, along with our longbows (that dad built, not me). i have nothing against crossbows whatsoever. THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ARCHERY.

but they ARE "guns" because unlike an archery bow, they are preloaded. whether the firing mechanism on a crossbow is a trigger or clasp, it is a "gun". it stays loaded during the entire hunt until it is fired or unloaded. THIS IS WHY CROSSBOWS ARE NOT EVEN REMOTELY IN THE SAME LEAGUE AS A HAND HELD ARCHERY BOW. they NEVER compete with archery bows in tournaments, and they belong with the firearm hunters and not the bowhunters.

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IAM ~ Black Powder Gang ~ TANJ ~ TGMM ~ NRA Patriot Life ~ NRA RSO

Posts: 10031 | From: NJ | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Krex1010
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Rob I don't disagree with your statement that shooting a crossbow isn't archery. And I respect your opinion that you don't think they belong in the archery seasons. But to me crossbows being legal for archery seasons are just a case of different weapons of similar effectiveness being legal in a particular season. In PA archery equipment was always legal for use in the flintlock season provided you had a flintlock stamp. I guess you're just a little more strict on what you want allowed in the archery season, and I can respect that.

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45@28 bear montana
47@27 mad dog prairie predator
"You can't cheat the mountain pilgrim"

Posts: 278 | From: Pa | Registered: Oct 2014  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rob DiStefano
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i will repeat yet again, and then i'm done with this ...
  • archery bows (longbows to cam bows) are not pre-loaded weapons, whilst crossbows are pre-loaded weapons.
  • though they both have "limb engines", they are as different as night and day either at the target range or on the hunt.
  • they are mutually exclusive and crossguns belong in the firearm hunt season, not the archery hunt season.


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IAM ~ Black Powder Gang ~ TANJ ~ TGMM ~ NRA Patriot Life ~ NRA RSO

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Krex1010
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I guess I'm speaking Greek? I'm not arguing any of the points you just repeated again. You're free to repeat yourself, this is still America. You obviously are either missing my point, or you are not capable of accepting that someone else could possibly have a different take on a topic. Good day.

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45@28 bear montana
47@27 mad dog prairie predator
"You can't cheat the mountain pilgrim"

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Rob DiStefano
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quote:
Originally posted by Krex1010:
I guess I'm speaking Greek? I'm not arguing any of the points you just repeated again. You're free to repeat yourself, this is still America. You obviously are either missing my point, or you are not capable of accepting that someone else could possibly have a different take on a topic. Good day.

if you advocate the use of crossguns during ARCHERY hunt seasons, at the same hunt venues, then i consider yer position as wrong and anti-archery. that's about it.

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IAM ~ Black Powder Gang ~ TANJ ~ TGMM ~ NRA Patriot Life ~ NRA RSO

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Krex1010
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thank you for your judgement Rob. I'll keep my thoughts about you to myself because somehow I get the feeling you're not the type of bloke who troubles himself with the thoughts of those who are obviously beneath you.

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45@28 bear montana
47@27 mad dog prairie predator
"You can't cheat the mountain pilgrim"

Posts: 278 | From: Pa | Registered: Oct 2014  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rob DiStefano
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Member # 99

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quote:
Originally posted by Krex1010:
thank you for your judgement Rob. I'll keep my thoughts about you to myself because somehow I get the feeling you're not the type of bloke who troubles himself with the thoughts of those who are obviously beneath you.

don't take my comments personally, they're not about you per se, they have only to do with crossbows, crossguns, archery and hunting.

that you see it perfectly ok to allow crossguns to hunt side-by-side with archers/bowhunters, is yer own business.

BUT, i do NOT want anyone reading through trad gang posts to think WE (trad gang) endorse crossgun hunting during archery season. we don't.

CROSSBOWS/CROSSGUNS belong in the firearm hunting season. just as firearms and crossbows do not compete with real archery tackle.

further, this is the only trad gang sub-forum where legal hunting weapons can be alluded to, but not specifically posted about IF they are not stick bows. i like lots of different weapons for both hunting and target, crossbows definitely included.

at this juncture, i think we're pretty much over about 'em with regards to hunting, we're not gonna have a change of mindset, so let's leave it all be, drop it, and move on.

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IAM ~ Black Powder Gang ~ TANJ ~ TGMM ~ NRA Patriot Life ~ NRA RSO

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FOX SQUIRREL NUTS
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Not a complete advocate but i started with a crossbow and now build my own recurves. cant say its had a terribly detrimental effect on me. Especially since i still get to hunt with my dad.
Posts: 241 | From: Hickory Tree, Ohio | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ron Vought
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I just don't understand why anyone would use a crossgun or even supports its use in the archery season. Where do we draw the line on archery equipment? Is it when the crossgun fires a bolt using a 209 primer at over 1,000 fps? I have yet to see anyone that supports the use of the crossgun answer this question. Yes the crossgun harvest in PA is under the microscope now....stay tuned.

Ron

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FOX SQUIRREL NUTS
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Vought:
I just don't understand why anyone would use a crossgun or even supports its use in the archery season. Where do we draw the line on archery equipment? Is it when the crossgun fires a bolt using a 209 primer at over 1,000 fps? I have yet to see anyone that supports the use of the crossgun answer this question. Yes the crossgun harvest in PA is under the microscope now....stay tuned.

Ron

I think the transition to game management by local DNR's has been the biggest factor. Hunting used to a be a tradition, now its a functional element at a means to an end result. The DNR's want me deer dead period. That seemed to start here is the early 90's and hasn't ended. They don't care what you think just kill their deer. Sad state of reality. I now fear State biologist with a hidden agenda more than any weapon. They have done more to reduce archery status than anyone thing is recent memory.
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Ron Vought
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I agree. Just kill the deer has lead to less hunters here in PA. Maybe a good thing about less hunters in the woods...Not sure.

Ron

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FOX SQUIRREL NUTS
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Vought:
I agree. Just kill the deer has lead to less hunters here in PA. Maybe a good thing about less hunters in the woods...Not sure.

Ron

Ron, i think its a good and bad thing. Now that hunters are needed to kill more deer we are now a necessity as opposed to a luxury (which is what bow season in ohio was based on originally). BY luxury i mean that we were deemed to have a very minimal impact on the deer herds so they gave us the OK. Now we kill a lot of deer. A concern i do have with crossbows is there is a very negative attribute that happens every year in gun season ad its the lack of respect for other peoples property and tresspassing. My opinion on it is i do feel strongly that the crossbow has allowed that negative migration into our "bowhunters" and they use the crossbow as a tool to do that because its easy and they don't have to wear that annoying orange that gets them busted. That may seem like a very broad generalization but that is what i see from my stand. There are people of all weapons that do this but again from my stand, they are the crossbow crowd. I do realize that not every crossbow hunter is bad and that is not the point but i find it to be a gateway tool like marijuana is for other harder narcotics.
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monkeyball
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A possible Penna. state record has been killed this year in "Archery" season. The buck is going to score in the high 180's and possibly break 190. 302# live weight and the" tips" of the antlers are almost 2"thick. The rack measured a 19" spread. Extremely heavy.

Shot in Allegheny Co. on Oct. 10, private ground. The hunter used a crossbow to kill it. Range......62+yards. A new State record more than likely.

I have nothing against this weapon either. It just does not belong in "Archery" season. It is not a "bow". And seeing how we have given it other names I like to refer to it as a Crossgow. A cross between a gun and a bow. Stock,trigger,scope,sling = gun....limbs ,bolt, string,broadhead = bow. Crossgow

Deer do not stand much of a chance these days as far as seasons go. Like stated above ,some areas start in the end of Sept. and are still running. Couple that with Coyote and Black Bear predation plus the upcoming CWD coming into Pa. and you are looking at numbers falling.

Crossgows have there place but it is not in the Archery Season.

Penna. should put the Crossgows in with the early muzzleloading (inline) season,ending with the junior/senior hunt. Let them all hunt that one week, just them, and then it's a done deal.

Archery season goes back to Archery season as we all knew it.

Something is going to happen, time will tell.

Good Hunting,
Craig

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Ron Vought
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Agreed Craig. Just wondering what will be sacrificed if something has to give.

Ron

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ceme24
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I am content as long as the discussion and decisions around season lengths/bag limits etc...center around 2 things:

A) Game management
B) Maintaing/increasing people enjoying the hunt

What is the proper balance across those two and what will drive the optimal result will change over time.

I have no qualm hunting a bow in gun season. I have killed deer that way...multiple times....

I also don't worry about trophies and records; therefore, my opinion could be very different from others.

Hunters of all types need to work together to keep us all out there...hug a crossbow hunter today! LOL....

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TGMM Family of the Bow

"God has given us two hands, one to receive with and the other to give with.” - Billy Graham

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