posted
Just a minute on the soapbox here.....having just attended the Cloverdale shoot last weekend and with Compton in just a few days I've been pondering a bit!
Vendor numbers are down at Cloverdale. Seemd to me, and I could be wrong, vendor numbers were down at Compton a bit last year. The economy plays a big factor, just costs too much for some of the vendors to load up and haul their wares across the country (county, state???). Several vendors have chosen Compton to be their primary destination due to the fact that more people come thru the gates that most any other shoot.
Economics rule the day. Several big vendors have chosen to just set up a table and take catalog orders as the expense of hauling merchandise isn't offset in sales. MOST vendors do the majority of their business online and more than a few of them offer special shipping/savings to various website customers (tradgang, bowsite ect.). This is a good thing I think.
In the early days of Cloverdale, many of us didn't even have access to a computer, let alone one on our phones. If you wanted to purchase trad goods, you waited until a big shoot came up to make your purchases....feathers, field point, shafts, broadheads, bows, what have you. It was the only place to get what we wanted. Heck with the tradgang vendors list, you can drink a cup of coffee while you compare prices, make your order and it will be at your door (and in most cases) a few days!
Shoots are for shooting our bows, getting together with old friends, making new friends. Maybe making a friendly wager on that next target. Eating as much wild game meat cooked in every way imaginable, till you can't eat any more! Hitting the practice range with flashlights at midnight for an impromptu coon shoot and going back to camp to eat some more! Making plans to get together at the next shoot or planning that dream hunt. Swapping out bows with your buddies and hitting the practice range and just having fun! Comparing notes on last season or an out of state hunt, comparing hunting and camping gear....just catching up with and being with like-minded folks!
At the same time, it does disturb me a bit when vendors chose to no longer support a shoot. A lot of vendors got their start at shoots like Cloverdale. Some of them are comfortable enough now that the Cloverdales and Farmlands (others too I am sure) just aren't worth their time anymore. I guess that is just a sign of the times as well. Kind of baffles me that we have the Kalamazoo Expo in the dead of winter and it draws more folks that most big shoots. Don't get me wrong, I go to K-zoo most every year and enjoy it, but if I have to choose between shooting and shopping, I'll take shooting every time!!
I've been at this awhile now and have accumulated most of what I need, so I really don't spend much time in the vendor areas anyway. Just ranting a bit because it seems from what I have been reading that the main reason for going to a shoot is to accumulate more stuff. I go to shoot and visit with friends and make new ones and......heck, I already listed my reasons! O.K. I am off the soapbox now! Mike
-------------------- Black Widow PLII 62", 53#@28" Black Widow PLIII 62", 54#@28" Black Widow PLV 62", 53#@28" Compton Traditional Bowhunters PBS Associate Member NRA Life Member Posts: 2935 | From: West Terre Haute, Indiana | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
It could be that there are just more Trad only shoots today than in the past. More options for vendors and they can't afford to spend every weekend on the road during the summer. Heck, in PA alone there are/were 6 Trad shoots in the month of June...Charleroi, PLA Marsh Hill, Greencastle, Meadville,Standing Stone, and Ski Sawmill. (Yeah, we got it good here.) Also, like you said some are established enough now that they no longer need to cart their stuff to a shoot to do good business.
-------------------- John Sweka - Howard, PA Posts: 2077 | From: Howard Pennsylvania | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
John, yes sir......more options plays a part too! You definitely have it good.....6 shoots! Here in about 5 yrs.(retirement) I may have to come and check some of them out!!
-------------------- Black Widow PLII 62", 53#@28" Black Widow PLIII 62", 54#@28" Black Widow PLV 62", 53#@28" Compton Traditional Bowhunters PBS Associate Member NRA Life Member Posts: 2935 | From: West Terre Haute, Indiana | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
KaZoo is nice because there isn't much else going so it is a popular draw. I think the economy is hurting more of the smaller shoots right now and that is why many vendor numbers are down. Looking at Compton's list this year it seems down a little again. Time will tell.
-------------------- Advice from The Buck:"Only little girls shoot spikers!" Posts: 6321 | From: Hesperia, Mi | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
There are more events now all after the same amount of vendors. They can't go to all of them(economics) so have to pick and choose. I have also accumulated my share of stuff over the past 30+ years of shooting a longbow. I look around the vendors to see if I find a bargain, but mostly have what I need. I go to all the shoots I can for just that, to shoot, and then to camp, eat and BS with my buddies and meet new ones. Nothing ever stays the same. I do think Compton could have done a different time when they started as to not be on top of Cloverdale. Cloverdale is my all time favorite when it comes to shoots. I can't make every year, but try my best.
-------------------- PBS regular UBM life member Compton Posts: 1020 | From: Imperial, MO | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
It is a combination of all of the above. I've been a vendor in the past, and I can tell you, between booth rent, travel, eating out, lodging, etc. it is a very expensive proposition to attend a major shoot.
I know that many vendors consider it an ok weekend if they can make enough to cover expenses. That doesn't always happen. Often they are simply going as a way to stay in front of customers and hope to get orders later. Not to mention having to work all weekend while everyone else is having fun.
Add in the fact that there are more shoots and events than ever, and the vendors have no choice but to cut back somewhere. Many will rotate from year to year to try to keep a presence in more places.
I can't speak to other shoots, but I do know that Compton vendors are actually up a little bit this year over last.
Posts: 8776 | From: Lake Mills, WI | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I agree the web and the economy has changed a large part of the vendor aspect. But last time I ordered a custom bow it came down to two well known makers each quality makers with fine bows, I chose the bow maker that I had built up a relationship with over the years, seeing the maker and his family at shoots, getting to know him and see him and his product over time. Its more personal. I realize not everyone can be everywhere once a year but it is nice to see bowmakers and other vendors get out and about, heck I've tried to get around to events/shoots myself as I have been able to over the years. It is about the shooting, the people, the gear, and the place all in a combination for me. If I haven't seen your product (mostly bows I'm talking about here) up close and personal either from you or someone who had bought from you I'm not as likely to come looking for it myself.
Posts: 529 | From: mn | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Hosting the Howard Hill Southeastern Classic as well as the Pre-Spring Arrow Fling with Compton Traditional Bowmen here in Alabama, I firmly believe Vendors bring people & people bring Vendors.
I don't know what line there is where Vendors feel an event just doesn't have enough people to make it worth their being there. I do agree that some are ok just building relationships and getting orders for later. But, even after a while I believe they feel that being at event enough times, even they feel they should be selling more than they might doing.
I try to encourage those that come to not only just visit the Vendors at our events, but if they are looking to buy, support the Vendors here rather than wait and buy on line.
I do see Vendors rotating years to try and save during this economy.
Terry Harris
Posts: 874 | From: Birmingham, AL | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Well I agree with all of the above, but would like to add another glitch to the mix.
We all watch with as clubs start talking about there upcoming shoot. They will list where, when, how much and all the activities that will be involved. And most list a vendor list.
I for one, can not attend a lot of shoots and depend on others to share their experiences. Not only about the shoot, but the vendors, food, and anything else that went on.
I always look the Monday after a shoot for who might be sharing there days, nights, and time spent at the shoot.
It seems of late, that very very very few people are taking pictures to share any event. There was a shoot in my local area last weekend, that from reading the maybe 10 post about the shoot, no a picture one. None from anyone, not even on the clubs website or anywhere.
There have been many shoots of late with the same thing. Never have I seen a post from a club saying "these are the vendors that came". The vendors also look for appreciation and advertising from the clubs. If the host clubs put no value on the vendors that do attend, and show a little respect, then why would a vendor return?
I think if more people would share these events so others can see what and who attend, and allow people to actually see what was good about these shoots, then maybe the vendors and shooters would attend.
What I am saying is, if the clubs/host of the shoots have no more interest in what there club had and did offer, why should the shooters and vendors?
-------------------- Genesis 27:3 Now therefore take, I pray thee, thy weapons, thy quiver and thy bow, and go out to the field, and take me [some] venison
TGMM Family Of The Bow Posts: 2683 | From: virginia | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
"I've been at this awhile now and have accumulated most of what I need, so I really don't spend much time in the vendor areas anyway. Just ranting a bit because it seems from what I have been reading that the main reason for going to a shoot is to accumulate more stuff."
Your statement pretty much sums it up...I have been a shooter and a vendor....and Whip is correct...vendors pay for the space....stock the items, travel expense, food expense, lodging expense, etc...they have an investment before any shooters even show up.fixed costs that are paid no matter what..and then to sometimes barely make enough to cover expenses....makes it tough....especially if there are a bunch of shooters with your philosophy that they have enough stuff..and rarely spend much time in the vendor area..why should they go to a shoot like that.?
There are so many shoots...that vendors have to pick those which would make more valuable use of their time, with the greater benefits....
It has to be a two way street...if ya want vendors, then someone has to make it worthwhile for vendors to attend....to spend the time and money to travel and set up and sit at a booth for three days and barely break even if even that...well...you do the math.....
Posts: 1406 | From: Lankster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:to spend the time and money to travel and set up and sit at a booth for three days and barely break even if even that...well...you do the math.....
That's pretty much it.
I agree with Terry--vendors bring shooters, and shooters bring vendors...but as someone else mentioned, times are a-changing.
Our club has never been a big draw for vendors--I think in part because we are relatively small compared to the really big ones, and location. I don't think folks down here spend nearly as much--or have it to spend--as folks in the North (FL being the exception). The last few year's economy hasn't helped.
So, what we try to do is focus on drawing a few quality vendors that can cover most any need--arrows, leather goods, etc.--at least one quality bowyer (thanks to Jim Gainey of Black Creek), and then work hard at making our courses, novelties, etc. the best they can be.
We have a big meal and entertainment on Saturday night, and even at our charity tournament we are giving back literally THOUSANDS of dollars in raffle prizes, door prizes, novelty prizes, etc. We'll have gobs of quality auction items that usually sell for well below retail--and we still manage to keep the club afloat and help out the Catch-a-Dream.
The key, as anyone who's involved with running a club knows, is having a core group that is willing to work their butts off for very little praise and lots of criticism. You have to be able to take the criticism and use it to your advantage--take the ideas to continually work at making your tournaments better.
posted
I remember my dad having a big archery shop when I was real little, back in the early 70s. He ended up closing it up because guys were starting to buy their gear from catalog outfits and then buying just little piddly items from his shop. They would also ask him to fix their catalog "junk" that they bought sight-unseen, and there wasn't any money in that. [This was the time when compounds were getting more popular, too.] I still remember a guy showing up at the front door of our house with such equipment, and dad basically ran him off because he always wanted Dad's expertise for free. The bottom line was that batting the breeze with customers in an archery shop doesn't pay the bills. A business has to be able to make a profit and be worthwhile, or else it doesn't work. I know that the principles of Obamanomics seem to say otherwise, but that ain't the way it works in the real world. Among other things, I'm an government auditor, an accountant and a bookkeeper, and I am amazed at how so many people don't consider (or understand?) the basic concept of how a business has to work.
If I have the option of choosing between a big hunting super-store or to go with a smaller vendor, I try to go to the smaller shop just to help him on his way.
-------------------- "The problem with quotes and other information obtained on the internet is that it is difficult to determine whether that information is genuine." - Abraham Lincoln
66" Black Widow PLX 48# @ 31" 64" Black Widow PMA3 49# & 69# @ 31" Posts: 1060 | From: Illinois | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
As I said earlier, I encourage those that attend my events to support the Vendors that have committed to be here.
I also know that online suppliers certainly have their place as well. Some of them cannot make all the shoots.
Thirdly, I was at an event several years ago and someone was talking about vendors. He said "man I love to window shop with all the Vendors". I asked what he meant by that and he said, oh I really don't buy anything but I just love to see all kinds of vendors, wish there were even more here.
How long do folks think these Vendors can go to shoot after shoot and not sell anything.
It's unfortunate, but we don't really know when our Vendors will do enough to come back or how many should there be for the crowd that shows up. I only hope all the Vendors that come to my events make enough to make it worth their trip.
Terry Harris
Posts: 874 | From: Birmingham, AL | Registered: Mar 2005
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