This is topic Hogs with shields and penetration! in forum PowWow at Trad Gang.com.


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Posted by Margly (Member # 18615) on :
 
Hi!
I was surfing the net and found an interesting clip.

It was made for showing the need for heavy equipment when shooting a boar thru the shield and into the engine room.

The guy shooting used a wheelie @70#
2114 shaft and a 100 grain 3 blade broadhead.
The shot was done at 12 yards against an already dead European boar, full side.

I guess the arrow weighed ca 420-425 grains. (2114 is I believe 10.2 gpi+ nock and vanes)

The shot went in ca 2,5" - 3" at maximum [scared]

I know we are not discussing wheelies etc,
my point is wow, you really need some heavy equipment to take down a mature hog if you are shooting it full side and hitting the shields!!

Maybe there is a difference between the European hog and others but again I believe for hogs: "heavy is good, heavy is reliable"

Margly
 
Posted by T Lail (Member # 3084) on :
 
what brand broadhead ???? 2114,s seem a little light too......
 
Posted by Ragnarok Forge (Member # 20134) on :
 
Margly the problem with that set is that he was shooting a 425 grain arrow. I bet it was a chisel tip arrow head as well. Not gonna get crap for penetration on a hard bone or heavy hide shield hit on a hog with that set up no matter how many pounds the bow is. I would bet a large sum of money that if the arrow weighed 650 grains it would have blown right thru that hog and kept going.
 
Posted by Margly (Member # 18615) on :
 
T Lail

I`m not sure, but did look like a NAP 3 blade, and when he pulled the arrow, one of the blades was damaged as well just hanging to the broadhead in the rear section.

Margly
 
Posted by Margly (Member # 18615) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ragnarok Forge:
Margly the problem with that set is that he was shooting a 425 grain arrow. I bet it was a chisel tip arrow head as well. Not gonna get crap for penetration on a hard bone or heavy hide shield hit on a hog with that set up no matter how many pounds the bow is. I would be a large sum of money that if the arrow weighed 650 grains it would have blown right thru that hog and kept going.

Exactly my point!

You need heavy equipment for hogs.
Just a mind opening clip to see.

Margly
 
Posted by joebuck (Member # 1530) on :
 
You get alot advice on this one.............but from my experience........it is extremely hard to shoot through a big shielded hog out of a tree stand..try shoot him on the ground 18 yards and in.......2 holes drip better than 1 [Smile]
 
Posted by RC (Member # 162) on :
 
Joebuck is right as usual but from the ground if your in the sheild your getting a bit too high anyway. I shoot hogs low in the pocket, works purty good.RC
 
Posted by highpoint forge (Member # 14527) on :
 
Right in the armpit, behind the elbow, or nothin', son!
 
Posted by Terry Green (Member # 3) on :
 
70# MOAB......585 Grain arrow.....WIDE 2 blade.....tree stand.....no exit.....burried off leg bone and pulled out with pliers.....no doubt in my mind a Wensel Woodsman would have gotten the same dead results from the equipment listed above....

SHIELD SHOT - CLICK HERE
 
Posted by stickbowmaniac (Member # 23362) on :
 
My buddy shot and lost 2 pigs around 175lbs within the last 4 weeks over the same thing.1 was with the big WW and the other was with the Muzzy Phantom 4 blade.He shooting 550 grain carbon arrow 48lb@27" longbow.Very little penetration on both pigs.Since them i told him to pull the bleeders off the muzzy and try this and he seeems to be getting way better penetration.Hogs are some very tuff criters.
 
Posted by just_a_hunter (Member # 9535) on :
 
The Boar in my avatar had a shield. I buiried a 31.5" arrow to the fletch with a 62# Sunbear. Arrow was heavy and flew straight and the woodsman was sharp. 27 yard shot.

Good luck,

Todd
 
Posted by bornagainbowhunter (Member # 21829) on :
 
Even with my heavy setup, 545gr with a Zwickey Delta, I always look for a quartering away shot. That shield is a beast. Low and tight for broadside shots!
 
Posted by Terry Green (Member # 3) on :
 
48#s is a bit light for HEAVY shielded hogs....

Also, I don't know where it came from....but it seems to get touted all the time....'quartering away to avoid the shield'. When I hear that, I know the person saying it has not shot a heavy shielded boar hog.

LOOK at the video.....the shield is NOT just around the front shoulder....it extends WAY beyond the crease. Also....when you quarter the shot, you are shooting through MORE shield by the angle you are creating on the shot.

HEAVY SHIELDED hogs require 2 things from what I have found.....55# minimum and heavier bows, and 550 plus grain arrows.

I have shot 3 LARGE hogs...one with a wide 2 blade that stopped in the off leg bone, and two that were passed through with Zwickey 4 blades, and they were shot with a 60# MOAB, 70# MOAB, and a 67# A&H....and two were with 580 grain arrows and one was with a 630 grain arrow.

YES!!!...Hogs are TUFF...especially when they reach a certain size. Light weight equipment will likely be disappointing if you don't make the perfect shot in the soft pocket....and that's not a large target.

No matter the broadhead choice, you also gotta make sure it is SHARP!!!
 
Posted by Cory Mattson (Member # 192) on :
 
haven't shot that many hogs with an actual real developed shield. But when I kept notes way back I took 8 cleanly - 100% recovery - all double lung broadside - all stalking (like joey said).
arrows were 600 to 850 grains - all heads sharp to the tip - 15 to 20 yard shots - none popped outthe far side - 8 to 10 inches penetration - bow weights all 65# (+/-) dead in seconds BUT I was on edge each time. I think the shots out at 15 / 20 helped penetration since these were completely straightened out - most hogs we shoot at 15, 10 even 5 yards - but I have never had a shot closer than 15 on one of these monster boars.
<>< <-------------------<<<<<<<<
 
Posted by BUFF (Member # 6577) on :
 
I shoot fairly heavy equipment ... 74# bow with 700 grain arrow. I have killed a train car load of hogs. I can count on 1 hand how many I have shot that the arrow didn't say in.
I shot this one from a ground blind at about 6 feet and the arrow stayed in

http://www.buffsblackwidow.com/oldvideos/h&s001.wmv
 
Posted by RC (Member # 162) on :
 
Very good stuff Buff. I actually saw a drove of hogs that big a month or so ago at fort stewart. My shot was not quite as good as yours though. Actually was a lots worse...RC
 
Posted by COOCH (Member # 12501) on :
 
Man I wish we had hags in CT I've got a few days off and nothin to hunt.I just finished a bunch of EFOC shafts I'd love to field test.
 
Posted by bornagainbowhunter (Member # 21829) on :
 
That is a bunch of hogs Buff and a great shot.
 
Posted by Margly (Member # 18615) on :
 
After looking at both Terry and Buffs video, I am absolutely sure that you need that extra for the mature hog.

I`m definitely going to build my arrows for my hunt at Hogheaven in the 700+ area.

Thanks for sharing [thumbsup]

Margly
 
Posted by s_mcflurry (Member # 17250) on :
 
From what I've read the shield is scar tissue that's developed through fights with other hogs. This suggests that not all shields are created equal and that it just depends on the fights they've gotten into over the years. If you look at a hog, can you tell 1) how thick the shield is by how rough the exterior looks and 2) can you tell if they have both shields?
 
Posted by RC (Member # 162) on :
 
A Shield is not scar tissue. It is cartlidge or however you spell it. A penned hog never in a fight will grow a heck of a sheild.Just like deer antlers some are thicker than others but I`ve never seen a mature boar with less than a 1 " sheild. Most 1.5" at the thickest spot.I have seen one that was 2".RC
 
Posted by joebuck (Member # 1530) on :
 
Hopefully I can give my honest opinion based on my experience not to get run off.......given all things equal (sharpness of head,weight of arrow/head,arrow flying ). The ultimate shield penetrator is a 2 blade 1 1/4" wide single bevel head shot within 12yards. If you shoot through every hog you shoot, you have a tremendous start of finding it versus a hog just shot on one entrance wound. Hardest blood trail to follow is a bow shot big boar out of a tree stand with only a high entrance wound to disperse blood trail.
 
Posted by Terry Green (Member # 3) on :
 
Correct on your entire post RC. [thumbsup]

YES, you can SEE the shield on some hogs....the hog in the video had a shield that could be seen the 1st time I saw him at 75 yards....it was very pronounce and looked like saddle bags.

Again, look at the video and you can plainly see it.
 
Posted by Terry Green (Member # 3) on :
 
Joey....get this. One of the BEST two blade blood trails I ever saw was that hog in the video....shot with a WIDE ACE Super Espress shot from a tree with NO exit hole!!! However it was NOT a high hit as you described.....but a mid-level entrance...

The arrow pegged the off upper leg bone. I could not believe the blood trail left till I figured it out. The shield was held open by the shaft and when the boar brought all of his legs together on his death dash, the blood was forced out the wide gash in the hard shield.


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Posted by Terry Green (Member # 3) on :
 
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Posted by Brock (Member # 7061) on :
 
I used to like showing an example Paul Brunner did years ago about broadhead penetration on thick hides. He had what looked like a Rocky Mountain Supreme bullet tip....a Muzzy chisel tip and then I think they were Zwickey 2blades.

He had a bathroom scale, an arrow, and elk hide....pulling straight down on both sides of hide with arrow standing on scale and perpindicular to hide as if a side profile shot being made. The bullet point would not go through with normal arm strength....the chisel point went through but took quite a bit of pressure before it tore into hide and let blades cut.....the 2 blade head went through like butter.

for what it was worth....

Ever since then I use two blade heads....and if it is three blade it is also a cut on contact such as Snuffer. I would like to see it now a days with some of the mechanical heads. With enough force you can get anything to penetrate but at what cost to efficiency?
 
Posted by BenBow (Member # 3544) on :
 
Dang Terry I can smell that guy from here.
 
Posted by stickbowmaniac (Member # 23362) on :
 
Great post.Nice pig Terry.I agree 55lb min on big hogs and good arrow placement.There super tuff.
 
Posted by Margly (Member # 18615) on :
 
The tissues you can see in the shield, is it scars from fighting or similar?

I`ve actually never seen something like that before.

Thanks for sharing.

Margly
 
Posted by Chester Thompson (Member # 12899) on :
 
Buff, how did you ever recover that hog? Hahahaha
 
Posted by Steel (Member # 16711) on :
 
I killed two very large mature wild boars this fall/spring using 2 blade broadheads/Carbon arrows and a 50lb BW PCH-X and a BW PSA-X 47lb bows at 27" draw. The arrow stayed in both hogs but came through the far side lung shots.One was down in 15 yards the other went about 30 yards.I would be more concerned about shot placement and correct broadhead/arrow combo vs poundage.

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Posted by Fishnhunt (Member # 20819) on :
 
Awesome video Buff!!!
 
Posted by Margly (Member # 18615) on :
 
After seeing the videos and pics I decided to make some new training arrows for my hunt at Hogheaven in Sept/Oct.

They weigh in at + - 495 grains + broadhead(Easton FMJ 340)

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With my heaviest broadhead they will have a total weight of ca 795 grains and with the lightest head(WW) they will have a total of ca 740 grains.

Shot from a 65# longbow or recurve I`ll guess I`m heavy enough.

The decision I guess is entirely which broadhead to use:

 -

from left the Centaur big game head, the grizzly el grande, the Centaur battle axe or the woodsman.

They all fly excellent so if anybody have some opinions I would appreciate that as well.

Margly
 
Posted by T Lail (Member # 3084) on :
 
that's as cool a video on a hog shot as I have ever seen.....have killed some pigs, nothing over 140 and used a bow weight of 56# at 27 inches....zwicky 4 blade heads on two and magnus on a couple....did shoot a large hog in Ga. that was at least 225...hit too high and only got about 3 inches of penetration.....he broke arrow off on a sapling and went right back to eating acorns......
 
Posted by JimB (Member # 17284) on :
 
Margly,I think you are in business.
 
Posted by RC (Member # 162) on :
 
All those heads would work but on a 200 plus pig you`ll wish you had the woodsman or grizzley on.RC
 
Posted by Terry Green (Member # 3) on :
 
Steel....yep, shot placement is ALWAYS paramount....as is arrow flight and broadhead sharpness. And yes, you do need to match your broadhead in according to your poundage....broadheads are tools, and ya need to pick the best one for the job at hand depending on your bow weight and targeted game.

BTW, where did you kill those hogs? Was it a ranch somewhere?
 
Posted by Terry Green (Member # 3) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BUFF:
I shoot fairly heavy equipment ... 74# bow with 700 grain arrow. I have killed a train car load of hogs. I can count on 1 hand how many I have shot that the arrow didn't say in.



Yep....and most downward shots on hog, like close range and tree stands DON"T result in a hit that passes through due to hogs being so low to the ground that a downward shot causes the arrow to exit and hit the ground. Not saying this is the case with BUFF's....but my experience has been ....'on the ground so is the arrow since it blows through, from above they flee with the arrow'...again, from the arrow exiting an stopping due to hitting mother earth.

Just something to think about....
 
Posted by chopx2 (Member # 22137) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Terry Green:
And yes, you do need to match your broadhead in according to your poundage....broadheads are tools, and ya need to pick the best one for the job at hand depending on your bow weight and targeted game.

Terry can you elaborate on matching the BH to poundage for hogs?

Shooting 52# R/D LB 650gr carbon arrow total weight. Planning to use either Elgrandes or VPAs. What do you think of that set-up?
 
Posted by Terry Green (Member # 3) on :
 
CHOPS....I think with that poundage if you wanted to not worry AT ALL about ANY hog that came by,....I'd choose the El Grandes....less you have a 30+ inch draw, then I'd shoot the VPAs.

Just got off the phone with a guy that called me about this very thing shooting your poundage, and he was looking at Abowyers....the Wapiti...and I told him to run with it. Great choice for any hog that happened by.

No matter what you choose.....get the sharp!!!!

BTW, that's a good arrow weight at your poundage for hogs. Momentum is key...best of luck to ya. Ya going back to Rays?
 
Posted by chopx2 (Member # 22137) on :
 
27.5" draw shooting 150fps...el grandes was going to be my 1st choice...now just need my aim to be true!

Not only sharp...dang sharp! [thumbsup]
 
Posted by Terry Green (Member # 3) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by chopx2:


Not only sharp...dang sharp! [thumbsup]

That a boy!!!!!!!!!
 
Posted by Terry Green (Member # 3) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by RC:
All those heads would work but on a 200 plus pig you`ll wish you had the woodsman or grizzley on.RC

Again....RC is dead on IMO.

BTW......this is a great info thread....lots of experience from hog killers being posted. Gotta love it!
 
Posted by Apex Predator (Member # 6002) on :
 
Yep, listen to RC and Terry. I just mostly shoot them little grillin hogs myself.
 
Posted by RC (Member # 162) on :
 
I hear ya Marty. I ain`t killed a 150 pound pig in a few years. I`m after grillers but I want to be toting proper killing equipment if a biggun comes by.I got two Bruisers on the wall and I can still remember the packout...my back hurts.
I love big broadheads as much as anybody but as I have dropped down in bow pounds those Zwickey No Mercy heads keep looking good.RC
 
Posted by ozy clint (Member # 15776) on :
 
in australia, after buffulo and camels, a boar with shields is the next hardest thing to penetrate IMHO.
 
Posted by Margly (Member # 18615) on :
 
Hi Ozy!
What is your arrow setup?( I guess you are shooting the 69#)

Do you use the same setup for all three species?


Margly
 
Posted by joebuck (Member # 1530) on :
 
Lot of good advice here,we all have our on spin. If i had to rank top conditions of importance to shooting through big hog shields, it would be in this order.

1. Get close ( closer=more arrow energy) IMO 15yards and in

2. Razor Scary sharp BH ( doesn't matter 2 or 3 but make it the sharpest implement you own)

3. Arrow mass ( most accurate heavy arrow you can shoot)

4. shoot horizontal ( if possible, it's easier to shoot through shield with more ummp shooting 90 degrees into shield than at an angle. That shield can turn an angling BH unfavorable ways sometimes. best way to bust a brick wall is run into it straight on.

5. Give it time......it easier to track a dead hog than a live one.IMO
 
Posted by Terry Green (Member # 3) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by joebuck:
Lot of good advice here,we all have our on spin. If i had to rank top conditions of importance to shooting through big hog shields, it would be in this order.

1. Get close ( closer=more arrow energy) IMO 15yards and in

2. Razor Scary sharp BH ( doesn't matter 2 or 3 but make it the sharpest implement you own)

3. Arrow mass ( most accurate heavy arrow you can shoot)

4. shoot horizontal ( if possible, it's easier to shoot through shield with more ummp shooting 90 degrees into shield than at an angle. That shield can turn an angling BH unfavorable ways sometimes. best way to bust a brick wall is run into it straight on.

5. Give it time......it easier to track a dead hog than a live one.IMO

Worth another read....
 
Posted by Don Stokes (Member # 16802) on :
 
"easier to track a dead hog than a live one."

That's classic!
 
Posted by COOCH (Member # 12501) on :
 
Man you guys are killin me we still don't have any hogs in CT,I thought the pig bomb went off and here I am still waiting,very impatiantly at that!
 
Posted by Biggie Hoffman (Member # 29) on :
 
Originally posted by joebuck:

1. Get close ( closer=more arrow energy) IMO 15yards and in
[/QUOTE][/qb][/QUOTE]

Now wait a minute Joebuck. I don't know if I buy that one. Are you telling me an arrow loses measurable energy between 5 yards and 20 yards?
How did you determine that? And none of your smartalecy "simple physics" retorts.
 
Posted by joebuck (Member # 1530) on :
 
Why do I have do your math? Closer is more accurate too. Your question scares me, did you put that peep site and pins back on your recurve?
 
Posted by chopx2 (Member # 22137) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by COOCH:
Man you guys are killin me we still don't have any hogs in CT,I thought the pig bomb went off and here I am still waiting,very impatiantly at that!

As I recollect when I lived in CT there were lots of Hogs at the local watering holes... [smileystooges]
 
Posted by Biggie Hoffman (Member # 29) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by joebuck:
Why do I have do your math? Closer is more accurate too. Your question scares me, did you put that peep site and pins back on your recurve?

I think you're confusing physics with gravity...
 
Posted by Marty (Member # 1181) on :
 
Why don't you 2 take it outside. Where:
1. Closer is better.
2. Mass ( Biggie) is way better
3. Speed -Joey will be faster but both timed with a calender.
4. Biggie has the angle due to height-kinda like a treestand.
5. Both are nice old boars.
6. I'll take cleaned up photo's of the loser. And post!
 
Posted by Ragnarok Forge (Member # 20134) on :
 
Marty,

That is funny!

I would pay for video of that.
 
Posted by Guru (Member # 616) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Marty:
Why don't you 2 take it outside. Where:
1. Closer is better.
2. Mass ( Biggie) is way better
3. Speed -Joey will be faster but both timed with a calender.
4. Biggie has the angle due to height-kinda like a treestand.
5. Both are nice old boars.
6. I'll take cleaned up photo's of the loser. And post!

[biglaugh]
 
Posted by batman (Member # 7925) on :
 
Only one way to settle this. Cage fighting . Me and Marty will be the referees. Just got to find a big enough cage.

Oh, back to the topic. Only shot one hog with a shield. 204lbs out of a tree. one hole. blood shooting 4 feet out the side when he left. made it 25 yards. shooting 47lb 500gn 2blade single bevel that joey coached me on how to get sharp. The edge of the head is what I think helped make this a short tracking job. I need to bulk up and start shoot a real mans weight. I just like hitting the exact hair I'm aiming at. Don
 
Posted by joebuck (Member # 1530) on :
 
Batman, they are jealous since i wear the smallest bra of the 3 of us
 
Posted by Ray Hammond (Member # 607) on :
 
Joey

it's easier to track a dead hog than a live one...

Now THAT sounds like the voice of experience!!! :-)

I also like "wherever you go there you are" !!!!!

Ha ha!!!!!
 
Posted by Biggie Hoffman (Member # 29) on :
 
Timed with a calendar????

Now THAT's funny!!!

Joey I'm down to a 34c
 
Posted by RC (Member # 162) on :
 
Both of ya`ll smell piggy though..RC
 
Posted by joebuck (Member # 1530) on :
 
My buddy ole Sam Roberts at the Paradise has one i have heard him say numerous times..." once ya kill a hawg, all you have is a dead hawg." or "that hawg didn't care what he got shot with".........heres another one i'll say sometimes..."hogs can't see real well till they see you!".....
 
Posted by jcar315 (Member # 19642) on :
 
Great read and lots of good info included. Really helpful to someone like me headed to Ray's in April!!

Thanks to all for sharing their expertise.
 
Posted by Ray Hammond (Member # 607) on :
 
A hog's shield is "developed" by the hog.

Over time, as the hog goes through life, he is continually wallowing in mud. As a part of that process, the hog then walks up to a tree and begins pushing that mud into his hide.

They don't wallow in sand- they wallow in clay- the hog knows what he's doing- building up a layer of mud against his skin that will protect him from bug attack.

As a byproduct, as the hog develops tushes, he begins cutting on the trees he is pushing on- usually in the South that means pine trees of some type.

He cuts gashes in the bark of the tree- marking it. When that happens, the sap begins to flow out of the tree and the hog naturally begins to get that material which as you know is pretty tough stuff when it hardens- mixed in with the clay.

Over time, the rubbing builds the cartilage under the skin, and makes it thicker and thicker. The sap and clay combine on the outside.

Under teh skin it looks for all the world like a big chunk of bacon - minus the streak of lean that you see as brown in the bacon. And its more in character like a piece of pine wood slab covered in white closed cell foam, than like any body tissue you've felt.

It's as much as 2 to 2 1/2 inches or more in thickness and it is a SHIELD against the fighting he does with other hogs. He won't bleed when he gets cut there- it just scars up is all.
 
Posted by Guru (Member # 616) on :
 
Ray, Maybe I'm misunderstanding you....Are you saying that the mud and the sap are responsible for the pure white cartilage looking substance under the skin that is the "shield"?

I don't understand how mud and sap could have anything to do with it.
 
Posted by Ray Hammond (Member # 607) on :
 
No...not at all. The rubbing on the tree starts at a young age, Curt. All hogs start rubbing for the purpose of insect protection.

The process of doing that initially to get the bugs off becomes a routine. The hog develops his 'set', becomes more aggressive than sows do in the rubbing and that working off of excess testosterone is what builds the shield INSIDE the hog's skin, as he simultaneously grows into a 'bo hog.

The stuff on the outside is what it is, all on its own.... but sows don't typically rub on teh sap covered trees...only the boars.

Sorry if that wasn't clear.
 
Posted by highpoint forge (Member # 14527) on :
 
Well, about two weeks ago, 700+ gr GT Trad 7595 with a Grizzly bh blew right through the shield, scapula, and penetrated into the cervical spine. Dropped where he stood and never made a peep. 60# PLX. Sitting in a 10' tripod @ 20'. Arrow flight really wasn't even that great using this setup, but BH was SHARP!

Who would shoot a mature hog with a 400 something gr arrow? Are you kidding?
 
Posted by Barry Wensel (Member # 1404) on :
 
You also need to take into consideration the "nature of the beast". Big, mature boars are always aggressively fighting. In comparison consider big bull nilgai (for those not familiar, are originally from India and now common on the King & Kenady ranches in south Texas). They are about the size of a raghorn bull elk but have small (eight to ten inch) pointed horns. They too fight aggressively during their rut. When I got my first big bull nilgai the guy at the tannery told me he had to shave the hide down five times in order to work it. He said the hide/leather itself was so thick on the front quarters it was similar to a shield. You think about that, it's natures way of protecting the vital organs when bulls swing their heads in battle very similar to boar hogs. Nature is amazing. I should also mention the normal placement of their vital organs (nilgai) are farther forward similar to African game as compared to North American game. Pretty interesting stuff that we as bowhunters need to be aware of for effective arrow placement. BW
 
Posted by The Vanilla Gorilla (Member # 10208) on :
 
A callus is an area of thickened skin formed by repetitive friction. Like a hog that rubs against a tree or powerline pole. Or my thumb after bowling 3 nights a week for 3 months.

I've never seen any foreign stuff caked on top of the callused area tho. Just birdshot and .22 rounds imbedded in it! Most the boars I've killed with armor were just bald on their sides from the rubbing. Some were worn down as smooth as glass, but felt like a tire that was weather worn, or a catchers mitt, as I believe Terry once stated.

Then again, I've also killed large, unbarred, tusky boars who were as soft as a sow along their sides. Very interesting stuff.
 
Posted by RC (Member # 162) on :
 
I think a doe I shot at a few weeks ago had a shield. Kinda like on Star Trek though. The arrow was headed right for her heart and ....had to have been deflected.RC
 
Posted by Marty (Member # 1181) on :
 
RC- I'm familiar with those doe shields-
They are my nemisis! Matter of fact- many animals appear to have those when I'm flinging an arrow their way.
 
Posted by Mint (Member # 5900) on :
 
Great thread. The last thing you want is to make a good shot on a big hog and not get the penetration to kill him. Over the years I have changed my set up as warranted. I now think using EFOC carbon arrows have worked the best for me. The arrows have a 50 gr brass insert with a 200gr 2 blade muzzy phanton up front. I shoot 4 hogs this year and all but one were complete pass throughs. One was a 130lb boar with a shield and i went through the off shoulder and the arrow was sticking through the other side. I'm shooting a 55lb palmer recurve and total arrow weight varies between 550 grs and 575grs depending on the arrow I am using.
 
Posted by jcar315 (Member # 19642) on :
 
UB, Great analogy about the nilgai skin vs. a hogs shield. While I have zero experience with hog shields I am fortunate enough to have been involved with skinning a King Ranch nilgai. VERY thick skin. That helps it all make sense for me.

Just another question: as I hunt with wooden arrows here for deer is wood even an option for hogs? Right now I am shooting right at 10 gpi.

Thanks again guys.
 
Posted by centaur (Member # 14053) on :
 
I'm a novice hog hunter; went after some last spring in Texas. I hit a good sized boar too high out of a treestand with my 56# bow, shooting Magnus two blades and Woodyweight for a total arrow weight of right at 620 grains. The arrow broke off just behind the broadhead, leaving that in the hog, and off he went, never to be seen again. Don't hit them high on the shoulder was my lesson from that hunt.
 
Posted by Nala (Member # 6510) on :
 
Those videos are incredible. I can't imagine an arrow penetrating that hog with all that mud and gunk caked in the fur like it is. Put that together with the 2 inch thick hide and those BIG PIGS would be very tough to bring down with an arrow.

Nalajr
 
Posted by Ray Hammond (Member # 607) on :
 
Sorry,

I've been really busy at work and trying to hunt this weekend.

I'll take one last stab trying to 'splain what I meant...

This hog had a shield.
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It was uniform in thickness, every bit as hard as any boars. It was a hermaphrodite- having male and female sex organs, and had never dropped a litter. It was killed by Terry Green. My sources tell me that in every thousand hogs there are a given number of these 'barren' females and we've killed quite a few of them over the years on our place.

They get characteristics of boars in that their heads get pretty extended, they get a little smaller in the back, and they of course all have had shields but just like this one- they're uniform and only exhibited once you start skinning them down.

When you do that you have to make circle cuts around the outside of the hog to get that shield to 'roll' down so you can get the front shoulders off.

They NEVER have any fighting scars on them- I'm guessing since they don't come in season the boars don't make passes at them?

There was no 'exterior' to the shield.

See, it's my contention that there are two components to a hog's shield- the interior AND the exterior.

Trying to separate the two or say the exterior component isn't important belies how important that part of it is to the protection of the hog.


Look at this pig

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and this one Terry showed earlier


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I killed the first one with my truck in front of the Savannah River Bow Zone two weeks or so ago..it committed suicide with a Dodge Ram 1500 front bumper.What a waste.

Both the shields on these hogs looked the same- its just that the one I hit with my truck had a LOT more hair on it.

They had almost a bodybuilder appearance to the shield, created because from teenagerhood the boar has continually worked trees over- not the big, stiff, non-moving trees that pigs rub their mud against, but 10-12 foot tall pines in our area- that offer resistance against the rubbing of the boars.

They mark the tree with tushes to get the sap running, then lay in clay, get up against the tree, mix the sap with the clay and rub it into their sides, but at the same time they are developing a 'callous' on their exterior and the outermost surface of the shield that gives it even greater depth and texture.

You do have to shoot through both.

We performed an experiment on the one I hit with my truck-I placed a 675 grain carbon with a 160 grizzly filled with a steel adapter and using two fingers to steady the broadhead I pushed it right through to the ground on the opposite side of the hog.

I have no doubt that a 46-48 lb bow at your draw, with acceptable arrow weight and a very sharp broadhead will generate enough energy to get through a shield- if you don't hit bones.

Just remember, all that clay and sap are working against you big time- they soak up a ton of blood before it starts hitting the ground
 
Posted by highpoint forge (Member # 14527) on :
 
Tushes.....I thought y'all were calling tusks, tushes. I gotta sleep more.
 
Posted by Ray Hammond (Member # 607) on :
 
Tusks and tushes are pretty much the same where sus scrufa is concerned!

Now a tushy is something completely different!!!!!
 
Posted by rastaman (Member # 13385) on :
 
One of the distinguishing characteristics of both males and females are their large modified canine teeth called "tusks" by many. The true term for the lower modified canines is "tushes" while the upper modified canines are called "whetters." The action of the lower tushes rubbing against the upper whetters is called "whetting." It’s this process that keeps the tushes razor sharp. These modified canines are primarily used as weapons against other wild hogs and predators. To help defend themselves against attacks from other boars, males will develop a "shield" on their shoulders that helps to protect them from their opponent's tushes. These shields can be a couple of inches thick and have been known to stop a hunter's bullet or arrow
The Wild Hog in Mississippi
by Daniel Coggin
 
Posted by Terry Green (Member # 3) on :
 
Somehow I missed the finish of this informative thread....good info for the up coming off season hog hunts.

I think this is some real good info posted by many experienced large boar killers.

All and all, big boar hogs are really built like tanks as some folks say....they have a low center of gravity, lots of power, can roll and mow over stuff with easy, and do have an 'armor' plating as they say, but its not real armor, but does burn energy getting through.

However, they will die quickly with the right equipment and shot placement. The soft pocket is easy to get through with any whitetail set up, but that pocket is a small target and can be missed. So, keep in mind, that a 45# bow with a 450 arrow will blow through a 200# whitetail with ease, but not so if you miss the soft pocket on a 200# boar.

It does take a bit more energy to get through a 200# boar than it does a 200# whitetail given the hide tuffness and thickness, the shield, and the shield supporting the ribs a bit more if impacted, and if mud is caked up in the hair.

Just all to consider when you expect to encounter a large shielded boar.

Also, when shooting them from a treestand, remember, they are more 'barrel shaped' than deer, and if you aim half way down, your are really aiming 1/3rd of the way down their body at times, depending on the height of the stand and the distance they are from the tree you are in....so, there's more body lower than you can see than like a deer. So keep that in mind also.

Best hunting to all...... [campfire]
 
Posted by wv lungbuster (Member # 18161) on :
 
I must have missed this one. Lots of good info, thanks for bringing this one up Terry.
 
Posted by Bjorn (Member # 6694) on :
 
This has been a great thread and lots of hog hunting experience shown here.
 
Posted by Tony Van Dort (Member # 137) on :
 
Terry,
Glad you bumped this into view...dang good for me. LOTS of good info in just a short read...
 
Posted by Terry Green (Member # 3) on :
 
Here's from another thread....

quote:
Originally posted by Terry Green:
I've seen this posted for years on web sites...

"I like to shoot them quartering away to avoid the shield".

I've tried to explain that this is not the case on a shielded boar....So at Solana I got pics of Michael's boar to add to the shot placements thread sticked at the top, so they can do the talking.

This is a pic of a shielded boar and the location of just how far back the shield goes and that you are not going to avoid the shield by shooting quartering away unless you shoot behind the rib cage, and that is a dicey shot.

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Also, if you do shoot quartering away, your are actually increasing the thickness of the shield you have to pass through because you are making the shield thicker by the quartering away angle.

I am not condemning a quartering away shot with this post, I've shot plenty that way. I'm just making folks aware that you are not going to avoid the shield.....unless of course you shoot that little soft pocked in the clip posted on the shot placement thread...and that soft spot can be shot broadside as well.


 
Posted by Terry Green (Member # 3) on :
 
I have more examples that I will try and post later if I have time.

This was Michael Langahand's boar from Solana, and a PRIME example of ALL that you might encounter.

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The yellow outline is the shielded area...YES, it went that far back on that hog. The red circle is 'the soft pocket'...and as you can see it is not that large. So, you are bound to hit shield if you are off your mark just a tad, or the hog takes a step like they often do while the arrow is in mid flight....AND!, Note the mud cakes in several areas that you might also hit.
 
Posted by Bjorn (Member # 6694) on :
 
'Quartering away shot on Hogs' is one of those archery myths that won't die. Maybe it is because folks bowhunted deer before getting into hogs.
 
Posted by Terry Green (Member # 3) on :
 
Bjorn....nothing wrong with shooting them quartering away, want to make that clear that's not what I'm saying. Just that passing on a broadside shot while waiting for a quartering shot isn't going to stop you from getting 'behind the shield' on a big boar....AND, if you think about it, you just made the 'pocket' smaller by the quartering angle.
 
Posted by Terry Green (Member # 3) on :
 
This is the biggest boar I've killed and it was shot through the shield, heart, and did get an exit....from a tree stand and with a Zwickey 4 blade.....67# ACS prototype. Slight quartering away.....maybe we should call that 'Eighthing away'. [Smile]


Click Here for Story


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Entrance......(sorry so blurry, camera was too close)

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Exit......
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Click Here for Story....
 
Posted by wapiti792 (Member # 8137) on :
 
Going on my first hog hunt in 4 days...shooting a 55# longbow at 30 inches with a 640 gr arrow and a scarry sharp Aboyer head. This thread was just what I needed [Smile] But that pocket looks awful small and that shield looks awful tough. Can't wait [scared]
 
Posted by Terry Green (Member # 3) on :
 
Mike...that's like 60@28....and a good hog weight arrow....you will do fine. I'll be waiting on the story. [campfire]
 
Posted by wapiti792 (Member # 8137) on :
 
Thanks Terry! I am so pumped about getting this cabin fever cured...maybe some cured bacon or ham will help [campfire]

Re-read your story about that giant hog just now. What a whopper!!!
 
Posted by Terry Green (Member # 3) on :
 
Mike.....where are you going?
 
Posted by Biggie Hoffman (Member # 29) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Bjorn:
'Quartering away shot on Hogs' is one of those archery myths that won't die. Maybe it is because folks bowhunted deer before getting into hogs.

Most sensible post on this thread
 
Posted by wapiti792 (Member # 8137) on :
 
Terry, going to Arkansas near a town called Chidester. Not really an outfitter and kind of on a whim, but it's only a 7 hour drive.

We will be the first spot/stalk/stand bowhunters he has ever had as guests. Most have been hunted with dogs, and it'll either be a bust or not, but how bad can it be with 2 other trad guys...will share the hunt with everyone here whether it be good, bad, or ugly [campfire]

This site is awesome! Without some of these posts and pics my shot placement would have been marginal at best! Thanks fellas.
 
Posted by ArkyBob (Member # 11538) on :
 
Mike, I know all about Chidester. My dad was born and raised there, it's where I grew up hunting, and I own some land 6 miles out of town. We just started seeing hogs there in the last few years. We havn't really hunted them yet, but we need to. They are getting to be a real problem in Arkansas, very invasive. Only one request..... kill all of them. Good luck. BTW there's not much there at Chidester, only a couple of convienance stores. Camden is the closest town of any size if you need supplies, 15 or so miles.

BOB
 
Posted by wapiti792 (Member # 8137) on :
 
Thanks Bob! Appreciate it...I will do my best [Smile]
 
Posted by Terry Green (Member # 3) on :
 
This hog was really heavily shielded. The 1st time I saw him he was 75 yards away and I could plainly see the 'saddle bags'. These photos are not doctored...look close and you can see the outline of the shield. You can especially see the front shoulder shield, but you can make out the shield covering the entire rib cage.

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Posted by Pepper (Member # 5756) on :
 
"I guess the arrow weighed ca 420-425 grains."
That arrow wgt is marginaly greater than min arrow wgt for a #70 bow, penetration would have to be minimal.
Boost that up to 800-850 grains, and then look at the penetration, should see a significant difference.
 
Posted by OPRick (Member # 5480) on :
 
In hunting hogs it's all about shot placement. RC's advice to hit them low in the pocket is "spot on" (pardon the pun). Hit em high and you'll never see them again. On our hunts we have skinned out hogs and seen numerous healed over broadheads embedded in bone and grissle from high shots. Last one I shot (50lb w/470 gr arrow)placed just in back of the front leg and he dropped in his tracks. Shot was taken from the ground at 7 ft. EXCITING!!!
 
Posted by wapiti792 (Member # 8137) on :
 
Back up for any hog hunting newbie like me...this is great info!
 
Posted by Bud B. (Member # 24907) on :
 
Bump
 
Posted by charles m (Member # 2599) on :
 
Upsie Dasie
 
Posted by BrushWolf (Member # 24340) on :
 
All good stuff.Going to hunt hogs for the first time next spring.55#@29" 685gr mfx carbons.Just cant decide what broadhead
 
Posted by Birdbow (Member # 21586) on :
 
I agree with T.G. - bows and arrows are delivery systems for Broadheads. Select for the game and then add other factors. Killed quite a few boar when I lived in HI and tried several broadheads but had the most consistent penetration with narrow 2 blades
 
Posted by Yeoman Bowman (Member # 26056) on :
 
Terry - that is a great video. Really shows how small the sweet spot is. And the shield looks and sounds like a bullet-proof vest. Nice vid.
 
Posted by Troy Breeding (Member # 33855) on :
 
Hooooooo Weeeeeee!!!!!

Dang I hate I missed this thread. Glad someone brought it back up.

I've said for years if a man told me he had been seeing a good buck every few days, but had seen hog sign in the past I'd head straight for the hog sign then try for the deer.

Troy
 
Posted by Sanka (Member # 37279) on :
 
Buff: watched the video, but had to keep the volume off, so I'm sorry if you answer the question there and I am asking again. First, OMG! That was a flood of hogs that attacked that water hole. I am assuming you were hunting TX. Seems there is no shortage of hogs there, only recipes. [Smile] How far did he run, or did he drop where you shot him? how big and (speaking of recipes) do you eat the hogs? I am wondering primarily because I am going to hunt for them in FL in a few weeks. I wish I could make it to TX, but I'll have to wait for that. Anyway, awesome video. Thanks for sharing. P.S. - I am hunting with a 50# LB. Any suggestions on shot placement (other than get a heavier bow, which I actually am next year)? I will be in a blind/stand.
 
Posted by collofthewild (Member # 35713) on :
 
Tight and low in the "soft" pocket. Razor sharp broadhead.
 


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