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» Trad Gang.com » Main Forums » Dangerous Game » Ground hunting black bear, shotgun backup?? (Page 3)

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Author Topic: Ground hunting black bear, shotgun backup??
Iron Man2
Trad Bowhunter
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quote:
Originally posted by Iron Man2:
I have seen this type of question all over the internet, at hunting camps, and at the range. All I can add is that it comes down to a choice. Whether to pack additional heat as a side arm for a traditional (-list). My answer is simple, how pure do you want your experience to be? I equate this to the those that say wooden arrows vs carbon? For me, the main reason I am embarking into Trad Archery is for the experience. And if I chose to hunt for dangerous game with traditional gear, then, sobeit. I will hunt with a traditional recurve and no firearm. It has made me a better hunter and the experience that more fulfilling. And just in case anyone was thinking, yes I have hunted in dangerous country in both archery and firearms seasons, independently. And have stalked many bears and killed two on the ground after a very fulfilling experience. Not that killing one treed or from a stand is any less for some. [archer2]



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W/training wheels: Mathews 70# @ 28.5"
Advanced: Black Widow GB 53# @ 30
Master in Training: Archery Traditions Bambou Hunter 68" 57#
No matter how you slice it...it tastes that much better when it was earned the hard way.

Posts: 164 | From: Maine | Registered: Jul 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Longbowz
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I suppose you could call a bear rushing an elevated stand a bluff charge. Black bears do it all the time to each other. Which is what I've always thought the bear thinks a hunter in a treestand is - another bear that’s afraid of them.

I wouldn't get too worried about it. Heck they could climb up and sniff my foot and I still wouldn't think I needed a backup firearm. If it's an excuse to buy a gun then do it. Better yet if your worried about such things like this then get a can of bear spray and stop worrying.

Bears are just plain fun to watch as they interact with each other. They deserve respect but don't deserve getting needlessly shot unless they are truly in your face and you know without doubt they mean business which is extremely rare.

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I find the older I get, the less I used to know!

Posts: 396 | From: Washington (wetside) | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
wapitirod
Trad Bowhunter
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I'd definitely go with the back up and since the bear will be getting closer if it charges I see no need for slugs just 00 or 000 buck. I've been charged by blackies and followed some up in some not so good situations. I've also been ambushed by one cat and had another try it. I am first and foremost a hunter and I like all weapons, I've chosen to go back to traditional archery for the challenge although my profession is building hunting handguns which of course are not an option in Canada. I decided a long time ago that no amount of purism was worth taking a chance on my life and even before OR legalized carrying a side arm while bowhunting I was carrying. I carry either a 3.5" 44spcl loaded with hardcast bullets or I carry a 45LC. I build guns that make those look like toys up to monsters producing 5000ftlbs of muzzle energy. I chose to carry the smaller handguns because of controlability. You can have the biggest cannon in the world but if you can't handle it or can't get back on target fast enough for a follow up it's useless. I say have the back up gun and just make sure whoever is using it can handle it. A quick little story about buckshot though to keep you from taking things for granted. About 25 years ago I shot a blacktail doe with buckshot at about 30yds just to do something different. The deer dropped at the shot and I dragged her back to the truck to field dress her as it was only a couple hundred yards. I had heard some noise that I wrote off to gas being expelled but as soon as I started to spread the legs to open her up she came to life. I had to fall on top of her to keep from getting kicked to pieces. Fortunately my uncle was there but he couldn't do much because of all the thrashing but he finally severed her neck with a hatchet. That was a 125lb deer so if you have to put a bear down don't assume the buckshot will be fatal just because it goes down, pay the insurance.

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89' Brackenbury Drifter 72# @28
Wes Wallace Stealth 66# @28
Wes Wallace Stealth 72# @27


I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.- John Wayne

Posts: 333 | From: Tillamook Oregon | Registered: Jul 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ak3blade
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"I decided a long time ago that no amount of purism was worth taking a chance on my life and even before OR legalized carrying a side arm while bowhunting I was carrying."
Well said wapitrod. This year I will be carrying a 2" Ruger Alaskan in a .454 with 360gr. bullets. I hope I never have to use it in self defense, but it is a comforting thought to know its with me for the "just in case" moments.

Posts: 44 | From: Russian Mission, Alaska | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
wapitirod
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ak3, that's a perfect weapon for a back up. I build hunting handguns for a living and the 454 is one of my favorite rounds even though in revolvers I go up to the 500 (510) Linebaugh and Max and my single shots so far I've gone as big as the 458 Lott. I've seen alot of people underestimate the killing power of a handgun just like they do with recurves and longbows but I've built handguns that would make alot of rifles cry. That 458 single shot makes over 5000ftlbs of muzzle energy and will stop anything and everything up to and including T-Rex.

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89' Brackenbury Drifter 72# @28
Wes Wallace Stealth 66# @28
Wes Wallace Stealth 72# @27


I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.- John Wayne

Posts: 333 | From: Tillamook Oregon | Registered: Jul 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ak3blade
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wapitirod, do you have a web site?
Posts: 44 | From: Russian Mission, Alaska | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
wapitirod
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yep it's dixiefirearms.net

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89' Brackenbury Drifter 72# @28
Wes Wallace Stealth 66# @28
Wes Wallace Stealth 72# @27


I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.- John Wayne

Posts: 333 | From: Tillamook Oregon | Registered: Jul 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ibow
Contributor 2014
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This has been an interesting thread to read and re the original question, I guess it's a mute point now but I can add this as a postscript... I've bear hunted from the ground a few years back in Manitoba, 11 yards from the bait. Most nights I was surrounded by bears yet never felt threatened by any of them except one ... A younger bear that bluffed/charged the entire night. He was a cocky little bugger. Finally after he got within a step or two of me, showing his teeth and puffing away, I gave him one last chance to back off when I yelled at him. When he didn't, I gave him a snoot full of spray. Never saw him again. [Razz]

I hunted in Alberta this past spring and when I asked my outfitter about doing it from the ground, without hesitation he said, "No." Looking back it was probably a good thing. I never saw so many bears in all my life. It was absolutely amazing. Best bear hunt I've ever been on and I hope to go back again next spring.

Great thread to read with lots of info and advice. Enjoyed it.

Posts: 1211 | From: Hudsonville, MI | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
LBshooter2
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I would load a slug,00 buck and then instead of bird shot I would go with #4 buck shot. I would feel very confident with my M1S90 at the ready.

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Barta Bow 50lb @ 28
Bear Kodiak Hunter 50@28
Bear Grizzly 45lb @ 28
Bear Grizzly 50 lb
Joe Walsh Custom LB 52@27
Byron ferguson safari, 66 in 59@28
Predator 55@28
Black Widow SA2 51@28

Posts: 377 | From: IL | Registered: Mar 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Firstlight
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Lot's of good opinions. We have a lot of bear's here on Vancouver Island. Just ran into one walking the dog a few weeks ago.

Here is what I do: 12 gauge (18.5") loaded with one slug and the rest buckshot. Chamber is empty with safety off.

Why is the chamber empty and safety off? In a PANIC situation (Bear charging you without warning) it will be difficult to have the where with all to release the safety with a thumb versus just quickly pumping a round into the chamber.

The reason I only use one slug and the rest shot is because the several bear charging stories I have heard is that if it happens it often happens very fast. Thus, after the fist slug is shot it's more about pray and spray (while aiming) and hoping for the best.

It's thick bush up here and running into a bear at 10 yards happens!

RE: Back up shooter in a tree. I personally would not be comfortable with this. I would want a back up shooter pretty much right behind me. I'd hit the deck if charged knowing my backup is reliable and right behind me, close!

Posts: 267 | From: Vancouver Island, Canada | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ChuckC
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It may be a great idea to actually shoot and pattern the gun if you use buckshot so you know exactly how large of a pattern you have, if there are two of you. Is it 1' wide or 10' wide, at 30 yards and at a reasonably close range. As Calgary chef points out, if it ain't close when you shoot it, you may have to face the wardens.

Good luck whatever you use.
ChuckC

Posts: 7224 | From: Deforest, Wisconsin | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
jrchambers
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Rifle 7mm or better
Posts: 1158 | From: kenai alaska | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Krex1010
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If I was in an area where I truly feared bears I would choose a shotgun with slugs or OO over bear spray everytime, I'd even prefer a revolver over the pepper spray. What if the wind is blowing hard into your face? And sometimes it just pisses the bear off. Unless pepper spray was the only legal bear defense I'd carry a firearm.

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45@28 bear montana
47@27 mad dog prairie predator
"You can't cheat the mountain pilgrim"

Posts: 278 | From: Pa | Registered: Oct 2014  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
newhouse114
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I guess that I come from a different school. Most of my experience has been with brown bears rather than blacks. My prefered weapon was a short barreled .375 H&H. On the rare occasion I carried a shotgun, the first round was a magnum load of 7 1/2 birdshot. If the bear was close enough for me to feel the need to shoot it, the birdshot did great for a first shot, it was followed by a full magazine of slugs.
Posts: 548 | From: Oregon | Registered: Jun 2014  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
swamp donkey
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I've only had a black bear charge once and had no guns or pepper spray. Luckily he wasn't too insistant on eating me and 1 arrow into him made him turn and run off into the woods.


If I were carrying a shotgun I'd opt for the slug but that's just my opinion. Some shotgun areas and states don't allow buckshot for deer because of the lack of accuracy and imediate killing power. For that reason I don't trust em.


If you decide on pepper spray make sure you get good pepper spray. Not all of those are created equal and some are not as strong as others.

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Gary

Posts: 68 | From: Marengo,Ohio | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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