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» Trad Gang.com » Main Forums » Hunting Knives and Crafters » Fordged in Fire TV show.....a question.

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Author Topic: Fordged in Fire TV show.....a question.
ron w
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I kind of like the show on History channel but I have ask folks who know a lot more than me. Is the time frame they give these craftsman realistic or is just a for TV type format to entertain guys like me......???

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In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's there are few...So the most difficult thing is always to keep your beginner's mind...This is also the real secret of the arts: always be a beginner. Shunryu Suzuki

Posts: 15477 | From: tribes hill , new york | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tippit
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Ron,
If you ever attend an ABS hammer-in, many times they have a Battle of the Bladesmiths competition. They have two hours to make a complete knife...many finish before the two hour period is up.

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TGMM Family of the Bow
VP of Consumption MK,LLC

Posts: 8461 | From: Carlisle, MA & Aiken, SC | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ron w
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That is just amazing to me......being a toolmaker for 40 years and knowing what it takes to make something from scratch, to form something that fast......amazing.

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In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's there are few...So the most difficult thing is always to keep your beginner's mind...This is also the real secret of the arts: always be a beginner. Shunryu Suzuki

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Lin Rhea
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Ron, As Jeff said, it certainly is done from time to time at events. I have participated myself and enjoyed it. But, even though I have been asked to go on that show, I have refrained.

FIF has it's place and I support the guys who participate but I think the general public can get the wrong impression about the time it takes to make a knife. The last season, I have appreciated the fact that the officials point out things that lend to educating the public.

Actually I am hoping a show will eventually be created that will show knife making in a more realistic view with the quality of fit and finish emphasized instead of the timing. But I like watching it too.

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"We dont rent pigs." Augustus McCrae
ABS Master Bladesmith
TGMM Family of the Bow
Dwyer Dauntless longbow 50 @ 28
Ben Pearson recurve 50 @ 28
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McCullough Griffin longbow 43@28

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ron w
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Thanks guys, you just don't know unless you ask. I asked in the right place.......lol

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In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's there are few...So the most difficult thing is always to keep your beginner's mind...This is also the real secret of the arts: always be a beginner. Shunryu Suzuki

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tippit
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Just like Lin said...all the Bladesmith challenge guys can do it in two hours...but it is no way equal to what they produce to sell. It is a fun exercise though.

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TGMM Family of the Bow
VP of Consumption MK,LLC

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kbaknife
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From my understanding, oven tempering on quenched blades is done off-camera and is not included in "contest" time.
Heck, we don't even see them torch tempering their blades.

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When the last deer disappears into the morning mist,
When the last elk vanishes from the hills,
When the last buffalo falls on the plains,
I will hunt mice for I am a hunter and I must have my freedom.
Chief Joseph

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Sant-Ravenhill
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I had the same questions as ron w. Glad to have found his thread.
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stickmonkey
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Here is the rub. you can and the ABS does forge blades for fun in that length of time but its merely a knife shaped object compared to what those same smiths can do with the proper time and steel. It is not a high performance blade and never will be compared to properly normalizing,annealing or setting up a spheroidal grain structure. There is also a lot that goes on behind the scenes of FIF that you dont see.

I have been forging knives since 2000 and have co brands with Bark River Knife and tool as well as being a designer. I dont say any of that to brag, especially with Lin here, but just to preface what i am about to say so you know i am not just an internet jockey.

If a smith is dealing with known steel then he has the knowledge to heat treat it so lets go with 5160, the ABS favorite. Its a medium carbon steel, many call it high carbon but its not because it only has between .56 -.64 carbon with ,70 being neutral or an eutectoid steel, and when handled correctly makes a great knife. So once its completely forged the grain of the steel has been distorted and has increased in size. This is bad and normal for any forging process so the next step is to return the grain to a smaller and orderly shape. This is called normalizing. Heat the blade to 1600*F then let cool in still air. most use vermiculite. this will take many hours to cool. Once thats done you want to set the steel up for grinding and to be austenized , hardened, followed by tempering for 3-6 hours but here is how to get the spheroidal structure. For a predominately spheroidized structure, heat to 1380 F (750 C), cool rapidly to 1300 F (705 C), then cool to 1200 F (650 C) at a rate not exceeding 10 F (6 C) per hour; or heat to 1380 F (750 C), cool rapidly to 1250 F (675 C), and hold for 10 hr. that last sentence is from Kevin Cashen.

Just from this brief description you can see that what is made in two hours on on FIF is nothing compared to the time needed to produce high-end performance blades.

Shane Wink

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Time is the crucible of a man's integrity.

Posts: 154 | From: Louisiana | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
stickmonkey
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Kabaknife that is what I was told from a contestant as well. After talking to Lon Humphrey about the contract required to appear on the show its just not worth it.

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Time is the crucible of a man's integrity.

Posts: 154 | From: Louisiana | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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