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» Trad Gang.com » Main Forums » The Shooters FORM Forum » How NOT to Release An Arrow....... (Page 1)

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Author Topic: How NOT to Release An Arrow.......
JNewton
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Hey, All!!!

Thought I'd try to post some links to a couple of videos I "shot" this morning while practicing. I would really appreciate some feedback from y'all, and more importantly, some "how-to-fix-this" advice.

I'm pretty certain my release sucks like a bucket of ticks, and is pretty inconsistent. I feel like I'm plucking the string like a bass guitar, sometimes. Is this the type of thing a person just "practices on through"? How do you learn to simply relax the fingers as you pull through with your back? I'd rather learn to to do this right, rather than fight the "un-learning bad habits" demon, if possible. Is focusing on a "second anchor point" a cure for this?

Sometimes (not always on video), I can shoot fairly decent huntable groups at 15-20 yds.. Other times, I wonder "What on earth am I doing wrong here?"..... I really don't shoot groups very often. I try to shoot just one arrow, and "think" about what went wrong or right, when something "right" accidentally ever happens, hee hee.... [Roll Eyes]

I guess, if nothing else, maybe these will serve as "What NOT to do videos. Nice to be useful for something, I guess..... [knothead]

https://youtu.be/rOR0HvTx3LA

https://youtu.be/d0QsJEdOEqs

https://youtu.be/yj6fo_TK5aw

Thanks, Folks!
(I apologize for not knowing how to "embed" videos, or for not having good recording skills.... [Roll Eyes] )

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Jimmie
A transplanted Okie living in Sandy, OR

Jim Brackenbury Drifter T/D Recurve 59#

OMP Ozark Hunter Longbow 50#

A cheap fiberglass recurve from a garage sale, that actually shoots pretty good (30#?)

Posts: 37 | From: Sandy, Oregon | Registered: Oct 2017  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
moebow
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To my eye, you are are not establishing any kind of anchor. You are just generally moving through the area of anchor/facial references. Just as a GENERAL idea, for each 1/8th inch of deviation of the string hand position you will get ABOUT 8 inches of difference in where the arrow hits at 20 yards so less at 15 but idea is the same. Hence (in my book)sometimes you will get arrows that are good and sometimes not so good.

If we were working together, I'd REALLY make you slow down the release and try to get you to set the bones of your hand onto/into the bones of your face.

What you are doing with the "pass near" anchor is basically changing the rear sight for each shot.

Your shot really looks pretty good overall but I would suggest that you set the hand onto your face for a moment, and I mean HARD onto the face, THEN release.

Arne

--------------------
11 H Hill bows
3 David Miller bows
4 James Berry bows
USA Archery, Level 4 NTS Coach

Are you willing to give up what you are; to become what you could be?

Posts: 2399 | From: Grand Rapids, Minnesota | Registered: Feb 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JNewton
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Arne,

Thank You, VERY MUCH!!! I was hopin' you would weigh in on this!

I did "speed up" my shot cycle, by just a bit, in an effort to make these vids shorter, and less boring than they need to be. I do usually shoot a tad bit slower, and normally only shoot one arrow at a time. I agree; I suppose I do rush that anchor point a bit.......

So, I should go to good, solid "index finger in corner of mouth, thumb bone under jaw" anchor, pause for second or so, then continue on back with my drawing arm? Am I understanding you correctly? I'll make an effort to do this, and make another vid if necessary. To me, when I've tried to do this in the past, I thought I tended to let my draw creep forward, and had an even bigger spread of arrows on my target than I get now. I kinda try for a smooth, fluid motion to NOT creep forward. I kinda have a tendency top relax my back tension when I stop, I think. I definitely do have my clicker goin' on & off some days as I do try to feel my anchor like I described above..... Please understand that this isn't meant to sound "argumentative" or anything like that; it's kinda been my attempt at "self-diagnostics" of my shooting.

Will slowing down the cycle to feel the anchor better fix the "sometimes I play bass guitar" releases I tend to get? One of the hardest things for me to figure out is how to simply relax my hand to let the string go, while pulling with my back. Dunno if my rheumatoid arthritis in my fingers makes that hard, or if I'm just lookin' for an excuse..... I know I can't quite curl my fingers like some folks can....

Thanks again!

--------------------
Jimmie
A transplanted Okie living in Sandy, OR

Jim Brackenbury Drifter T/D Recurve 59#

OMP Ozark Hunter Longbow 50#

A cheap fiberglass recurve from a garage sale, that actually shoots pretty good (30#?)

Posts: 37 | From: Sandy, Oregon | Registered: Oct 2017  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
moebow
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Yes, you understand correctly. When you get to anchor (I like facial references better) Continue with your thoughts about back and forget release. Release is not a step in most shot sequences, it just happens as you move to conclusion.

That's not really easy to do for most of us but IF you can concentrate on the back you will find the release to be there. I say often that many parts of the shot are something that HAPPENS, NOT something you do.

Arne

PS. Never shoot for the camera; SHOOT YOUR SHOT!

--------------------
11 H Hill bows
3 David Miller bows
4 James Berry bows
USA Archery, Level 4 NTS Coach

Are you willing to give up what you are; to become what you could be?

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JNewton
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Thank You, Arne!!! [thumbsup]

You Rock!!! [Not Worthy]

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Jimmie
A transplanted Okie living in Sandy, OR

Jim Brackenbury Drifter T/D Recurve 59#

OMP Ozark Hunter Longbow 50#

A cheap fiberglass recurve from a garage sale, that actually shoots pretty good (30#?)

Posts: 37 | From: Sandy, Oregon | Registered: Oct 2017  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
McDave
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When someone is not used to holding at anchor, one does have a tendency to creep. This is not a reason to avoid holding at anchor, it just means you have to learn to maintain back tension through release. You seemed to be maintaining back tension in the shots you videoed, other than the one you plucked. If you like snap shooting, you can still do it, just hold long enough to get to a solid anchor. Even holding for that split second longer means that you will have to learn to maintain your back tension a split second more, which takes practice.

If you would like a good model, get the TradGang video and watch Terry Green. He is a master of snap shooting, and comes to a solid anchor every single shot.

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TGMM Family of the Bow

I'm a man, and I can change, if I have to, I guess.

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JNewton
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Thanks, McDave!!!

Off the top of your (or anyone else's) head, do you know what thread here shows him shooting 2-3 shots?

I found a thread once with a video of him shooting, and his shot cycle kinda reminds me a bit of G. Fred Asbell's shot cycle, as far as total time from draw to arrow zingin', anchor/release, & etc..

And honestly, for my hunting purposes, this quick, instinctive style of the shot cycle is what I've consciously tried to mimic with my shooting. I got to shoot once with the guy that built my bow (Jim Brackenbury) as well as Wes Wallace. Coming from a compound bow/peep sight/crosshair sight setup at that time, and wanting to simplify things for my hunting, I was very impressed with these guys' abilities to get a shot off so quickly & fluidly. For the quick shots typically needed for hunting Blacktails off the ground, it seemed an ideal system. Especially after sending arrows skidding up to the deer's front feet, or over their backs, due to choosing the wrong sight pin..... [banghead] [Big Grin]

However, I do realize my need for getting better grounded in the fundamentals before I get too far along, or get frustrated, or have to un-learn bad habits & techniques. I'm pretty confident the advice here is gonna help, along with sending a buncha arrows towards a target.....

My inconsistent, "Good Day Shooting/Bad Day Shooting" deal is something I won't walk into the woods with. This seems like the perfect time of year to work on that....

--------------------
Jimmie
A transplanted Okie living in Sandy, OR

Jim Brackenbury Drifter T/D Recurve 59#

OMP Ozark Hunter Longbow 50#

A cheap fiberglass recurve from a garage sale, that actually shoots pretty good (30#?)

Posts: 37 | From: Sandy, Oregon | Registered: Oct 2017  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JNewton
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And you kinda hit on something in your post above here, McDave....

quote:
When someone is not used to holding at anchor, one does have a tendency to creep. This is not a reason to avoid holding at anchor, it just means you have to learn to maintain back tension through release. You seemed to be maintaining back tension in the shots you videoed, other than the one you plucked. If you like snap shooting, you can still do it, just hold long enough to get to a solid anchor.
So those types of "events" are likely/possibly the effect of me "gettin' lazy", and relaxing/letting off my back tension? There's several more of those shots where that happened on other vids I made today that I didn't post..... Tryin' to figure out how to correct these kinds of deals.....

Plus, I've always wanted to say how much I like the Red Green quote in your sig. That's one of my all-time favorite shows.....

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Jimmie
A transplanted Okie living in Sandy, OR

Jim Brackenbury Drifter T/D Recurve 59#

OMP Ozark Hunter Longbow 50#

A cheap fiberglass recurve from a garage sale, that actually shoots pretty good (30#?)

Posts: 37 | From: Sandy, Oregon | Registered: Oct 2017  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
McDave
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Hereís a few of Terry shooting.

Wow! You got to shoot with Jim Brackenbury? A Brackenbury was my first bow, but I never got to meet him. What an experience that must have been. Tell us about it.

--------------------
TGMM Family of the Bow

I'm a man, and I can change, if I have to, I guess.

Posts: 4324 | From: Sacramento, CA | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JNewton
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Wow, you're askin' a guy who can't recall what I had for breakfast to remember details of something from almost 30 yrs. ago, hee hee.... [Confused]

No, like I said above, I had come to Traditional Archery from a floundering compound bow kinda background. I could shoot tight groups at known yardages with that equipment. But I wanted to simplify things with my hunting, and it just seems to me that a longbow or recurve bow with wood or aluminium arrows just fits the profile better of what bow season was originally set aside for: "Primitive Weapons".

So I learn that a guy who builds really good stickbows lives just a couple of miles from where I live. A used Brackenbury bow came up for sale at a local archery shop, and I bought it. I felt like I should have a spare bowstring layin' around, so I went to Jim's shop to buy one. While I was there, he & Wes decided to take break from bow building, and shoot a little bit. Jim had a nice little trail shoot setup on his property, with, oh what, around a 10 foam animal targets? I was loaned a bow to shoot, since mine was at my house, which was nice of him to do. One cool thing I recall was Jim diagnosing & pointing out things I was doing wrong, and what needed to be done to fix those things. I was really nervous about shooting in front of these obviously great shots, so my shooting sucked like a bucket full of ticks.

But those guys were makin' fantastic shots, and doing it so fluidly and precise. It was so cool to see how this kinda shooting "is supposed to be done", ya know? To a guy that struggled to get a quick shot off with my compound, I was pretty "big-eyed" about it. [Eek!] They would draw, anchor, and send an arrow so quickly, I couldn't believe it. And unlike myself, their arrows hit where they were aiming! [archer2]

Guess this a bit off topic for this forum, and I apologize. Maybe it'll help folks understand how I've kinda arrived at where I am now; I dunno. I began rifle hunting with some members of my family, as they were gettin' "old" (the age I am now..... [Big Grin] ) not long after Jim died. I wanted to hunt with my uncles and cousins, and none of them bowhunted. Now, they have either passed away, or ain't healthy enough to hunt. I always felt like I learned more about hunting in one week of archery hunting than I did for years while rifle hunting. So I came back to bowhunting, but feel the need to get my shooting up to snuff first. And here I am.....

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Jimmie
A transplanted Okie living in Sandy, OR

Jim Brackenbury Drifter T/D Recurve 59#

OMP Ozark Hunter Longbow 50#

A cheap fiberglass recurve from a garage sale, that actually shoots pretty good (30#?)

Posts: 37 | From: Sandy, Oregon | Registered: Oct 2017  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
McDave
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I enjoyed reading about your experience with Jim and Wes. As with Jim, nothing is forever, and it is important to take whatever opportunities we have to meet people whose work or lives have been important to us while we still can.

There used to be a great traditional archery shop in Hood River, Oregon, Raptor Archery, owned by Ted Fry. The last I heard, it was closed but Ted was working on opening a new shop there. Raptor was as much of an archery museum as a shop, and Ted was a wealth of information on traditional archery. Iím sure he would love to hear about your experiences. You should check from time to time to see if he has opened his new shop, and drop in to see him when he does.

There is also a very active traditional archery group in Hood River, as I suppose there is throughout Oregon, so you should be able to find company if you look for it.

--------------------
TGMM Family of the Bow

I'm a man, and I can change, if I have to, I guess.

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JNewton
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Hmmm. Well, maybe I can drag the wife over there to Hood River where Raptor Archery is, to dodge a little rain we're gettin' here. That's a really beautiful part of the Columbia River Gorge over there. [thumbsup] I thought since there's an ad for them at the tops of some of these pages, they would still be an active vendor??? The website for Raptor Archery still "works"..... [Confused]

Here's the short, grainy video clip of Terry G. shooting a few arrows that I wrote about in one of my earlier posts.

https://youtu.be/i6ve4JyIHmo

To me, it *looks* like he anchors his middle finger to the corner of his mouth, and the base of his thumb along his cheek bone??? His hand continues along in one smooth, fluid motion.

I guess this is what I've been trying to emulate for my hunting purposes. It's how I seem to recall Jim Brackenbury & Wes Wallace shooting their bows, and how G. Fred Asbell advocates in his video & books. Only I do a much uglier and less effective version of it, hee hee..... [Roll Eyes]

Anyway, had a bit of dry weather yesterday, so I shot a few groups. Didn't drag out the camera & tripod because of the threat of water from a very gray sky. Slowing things down on my shot cycle will take some gettin' acclimated to. One thing I really like is that more of my shots were centered much better left-to-right (windage). [Smile]

One odd thing I noticed was the way my focus kept "switching" during a shot cycle. I would begin my draw focused on the "spot on the target I wished to hit". As the bow came up and the arrow became more visible, my focus switched to the orientation of the arrow. And then as I was "feeling" for my anchor (index finger in corner of the mouth, base of thumb kinda along the bottom of my jawbone), my focus switched back to the target spot. I dunno if I was sub-consciously doin' this before or not with the faster shot cycle? [dunno]

Is this what's called "split vision" aiming?

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Jimmie
A transplanted Okie living in Sandy, OR

Jim Brackenbury Drifter T/D Recurve 59#

OMP Ozark Hunter Longbow 50#

A cheap fiberglass recurve from a garage sale, that actually shoots pretty good (30#?)

Posts: 37 | From: Sandy, Oregon | Registered: Oct 2017  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
McDave
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There are all sorts of aiming methods. At one extreme is Fred Asbell, who advocates never looking at, or even being aware of the existence of the arrow. At the other extreme is Jim Ploen, who advocates looking down the whole length of the arrow as a part of the aiming process. Both would agree that the focus should be on the spot you want to hit when youíre ready to release the arrow. Iím not sure where on that spectrum Terry Green lies.

Split vision means that the primary focus is on the spot you want to hit, with the arrow out of focus in the peripheral vision. Split vision discourages ever focusing on the arrow, except for maybe a glance to make sure it is still in place at full draw on the shelf against the strike plate. This is not usually a problem for instinctive shooters, because they donít use the arrow to aim, but it can be a problem for gap shooters. Sometimes when I miss high I think itís because I focused on the arrow rather than the target, if I canít come up with any other reason.

It is basic to good archery form to come to a solid anchor. How much time you spend there is up to you. But you have to at least hit it, and be aware that you hit it, or your arrows will be all over the place.

--------------------
TGMM Family of the Bow

I'm a man, and I can change, if I have to, I guess.

Posts: 4324 | From: Sacramento, CA | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JNewton
Contributor 2018
Member # 46760

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quote:
It is basic to good archery form to come to a solid anchor. How much time you spend there is up to you. But you have to at least hit it, and be aware that you hit it, or your arrows will be all over the place.
Great way to sum it up, McDave!!! [Not Worthy] I really like that!!

Sometimes, I think I'm like my kids when I was attempting to teach them something. A person just needs to say it in multiple ways until one version of the same explanation sinks into my thick skull...... [knothead]

I think that I am certainly living proof of the arrows scattering all over the place..... For now, anyway...... [Wink]

Thanks, McDave!

--------------------
Jimmie
A transplanted Okie living in Sandy, OR

Jim Brackenbury Drifter T/D Recurve 59#

OMP Ozark Hunter Longbow 50#

A cheap fiberglass recurve from a garage sale, that actually shoots pretty good (30#?)

Posts: 37 | From: Sandy, Oregon | Registered: Oct 2017  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JNewton
Contributor 2018
Member # 46760

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Hey, Gang!!!

Here's a video I made while it was sprinkling outside a little bit today. In short, I *think* I've slowed down a little bit, and sorta found a more repeatable anchor. I really need to work on my consistancy...... [help]

https://youtu.be/oaaCOcMeve4

Please let me know if this is any better than the form check vids above, or worse, about the same, or if I should apply for work at Foster Farms as a chicken plucker..... [Big Grin]
Thanks!

--------------------
Jimmie
A transplanted Okie living in Sandy, OR

Jim Brackenbury Drifter T/D Recurve 59#

OMP Ozark Hunter Longbow 50#

A cheap fiberglass recurve from a garage sale, that actually shoots pretty good (30#?)

Posts: 37 | From: Sandy, Oregon | Registered: Oct 2017  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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