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» Trad Gang.com » Main Forums » The Shooters FORM Forum » 3 under and self nocks????

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Author Topic: 3 under and self nocks????
Exiled_Archer
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What's the consensus out there on shooting 3 under with self nocks? Can I secure the nocks against the nock point with pressure and without I'll effects?

I do neither at this point. I shoot split finger and I shoot with plastic nocks, HOWEVER, I have been considering a switch to 3 under for the sake of my ridiculous gaps.

My concern is over loose nocks. Plus I have been in a long process of making some cane arrows from scratch and don't want to blind or Mame myself.

Or am I just thinking silly thoughts?

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McDave
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I shoot 3 under, and need to use snap-on nocks. If the nocks don't snap on securely, I risk a dry fire, which has happened when the nocks fit too loosely.

I suppose you could get by with a self nock if it was a tight enough fit on the string. Maybe you could figure something out where you force the nock up against the string nock, but you would have to know somehow that it hadn't slipped off the string at full draw.

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YosemiteSam
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For the sake of your bow, I wouldn't do it. Even if you have a less than 1% chance of a dry fire, you'll hit that number pretty fast if you spend any time shooting. Use snap-on or opt for some other sort of string grip. You can go split finger with a middle finger to the mouth anchor, increase your arrow weight and length and shorten those gaps down a lot. You can also try a supported pinch grab (pinch with your thumb & index finger while pulling with your middle & ring fingers and a very high anchor up to your eye. There's also the thumb grab, which can be secure with some practice. Too many safe options to risk it all on one type of grip.

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"A good hunter...that's somebody the animals COME to."
"Every animal knows way more than you do." -- by a Koyukon hunter, as quoted by R. Nelson.

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Exiled_Archer
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Yah so that's what I was thinking. I've been playing with a higher anchor and I get some better gaps that way.

I was putting my thumb nuckle in my jaw, but have since brought my thumb up and let me thumb pad fall in my ear. Seems to work.

I'm worried about switching to 3 under for all the aformentioned reasons

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reddogge
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High anchor (middle finger near corner of mouth and first finger under cheek bone)and long arrows will shrink those gaps to very manageable dimensions. Also try visualizing the gap at the riser instead of the target.

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Brently
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I shoot 3 under with self knocks all the time, in fact that is mostly what I use. I just slide the arrow up against the string knock and use my index finger to apply pressure against it to hold it in place Never had a dry fire in many thousands of shots. That is how I do it.
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McDave
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Brently, some years ago, someone did a study and determined that when shooting 3 under, the arrow nock can slide down the string when the arrow is fired, causing high misses. There were some slo-mo videos that showed this happening. The recommended precaution against this was to use a second string nock under the arrow which would prevent the arrow nock from sliding down the string.

Have you ever experienced anything like this, and if you haven’t, do you have any ideas as to how you have been able to avoid it? Do your self nocks grip the string, and if so, how tightly?

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I'm a man, and I can change, if I have to, I guess.

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mgf
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I remember the video but I don't remember seeing anything I'd call a "study".
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McDave
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There was a lot of discussion of nocks slipping down the string in the 2013-2015 time period, and then it seems to have died off.

Here is a link to one of those discussions. One of the posts in this discussion contains a link to the video. I could not find a link to a “study,” but some of the posters in other discussions indicated that they had performed their own tests, which corroborated the video. Others, like Rick Welch, have shot 3 under for years very accurately without using a second nock. While no one seems to have found out why it is a problem for some and not others, it seems logical to me that it would be more likely to happen with loose nocks. I know that Rick’s nock fit is snug. I’ve always used a second nock, because it seems like it might eliminate one source of possible error, and I like gripping the string under the second nock rather than directly touching the arrow.

What’s been your experience with this, mgf?

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TGMM Family of the Bow

I'm a man, and I can change, if I have to, I guess.

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Brently
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Thanks McDave for your comments. No my nocks dont fit tight because I also use mercury nocks. Now you have me wondering about this, as far as I know I dont shoot high. I will have to try the double nock and see if things change. Thanks again for the info. I have been shooting this way for many years so I dont know why it works fine for me.
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Brently
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Just another note if it makes a difference. All my bows are Howard Hill long bows 68" . I dont know if that maybe changes the angle of the string to nock.
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McDave
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The most important thing is to not dry fire. So if you have loose arrow nocks and it helps to press them against the upper string nock to keep them on the string, do that. If you start noticing unexplained high misses, then consider putting on a lower string nock to stop the arrow nock from sliding down the string, but you might have to tighten up the arrow nock fit if you can’t press them against the upper string nock after you add a lower string nock.

--------------------
TGMM Family of the Bow

I'm a man, and I can change, if I have to, I guess.

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Exiled_Archer
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Is the downward nock movement only applicable to 3-under shooters, or has this been found in split finger as well?

Just wondering, because I know john Schultz, howard hill, and many here nock their arrows above the nock locator instead of under. I know their reasoning isn't because of downward arrow movement, but could this be happening if nocking under the locator?

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McDave
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I have never heard of downward nock movement from shooting with split fingers. I think it results from the deformation of the string under the nock when shooting 3 under. Many split finger shooters nock under the nock with no problems.

John and Howard were split finger shooters. Howard nocked above the nock because he found it easier to nock an arrow without looking at it when he nocked over the nock. I think John nocked over the nock because Howard did it that way [Smile]

If you want to see slippage, try nocking over the nock and shooting 3 under. I sometimes want to put my arrow over the nock just to experiment with the effect on arrow flight, and I almost always have to use split fingers to keep the arrow on the nock until I shoot.

--------------------
TGMM Family of the Bow

I'm a man, and I can change, if I have to, I guess.

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Exiled_Archer
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I tried this the other day. I used my bow square to figure out where the bottom of my arrow nocks were at and then twisted my nock locator down the string. I have been shooting with my arrow over the nock locator and 2 things I am noticing.

First, I do see the benefit to blind nocking the arrows and the ease of nocking and rolling around the string while having the arrow nocked. It seems very natural.

Second, Im having to put downward pressure with my index finger to keep the arrow from sliding up. This probably wouldn't be an issue if I were used to it, but from nocking under for so long, I sometimes find myself putting zero pressure and having the arrow nock slide up if I let the bow down....

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