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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: TURKEYFOOTGIRL on August 23, 2016, 12:13:00 AM
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So after doing several long wet hunts in the mountains and in tents i need to know what you guys use for footwear. On a Mt goat hunt i used Kennetreks and had sloshing wet feet for ten days and the boots took days to dry after the hunt and probaly weighed ten pounds while hunting.
This years kodiak hunt i brought a pair of meindldenalis and a pair of lacrosse burlys with airgrip.
First day i hunted in the burlys but not near enough foot support. My foot was literally on the side of the boot while sidehilling. Blisters were coming real quick! The rest of the time i used the meindl and my feet were soaked all day and every morning i had to put on a slopping wet boot.
So whats the right boot? Must have good traction and support for long hikes, all day hikes in rugged terrain. Be waterproof. Breathe good. Dry out fast or not store water weight. Thanks in advance i know you guys will have a good answer.
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A friend of mine was in the Airborne Rangers and he thought Danners were the best boots for support and keeping dry .
I personally have no experience with them but most of his outfit wore them .
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I like Cabelas Kangaroo, or Bison leather in a non-insulated boot for most hunting, and Danner for tough country. I use Obenauf's Heavy Duty waterproofing about $11 on all hunting boots. I admit to prefer GorTex for wet weather. For cold weather 600 grams of insulation helps. I don't care for heavy boots, but fit and support is everthing, esp.for good ankle support.
I have been using SOLE inserts (red color) about $29. You preheat an oven and put them in for a couple minutes then in shoes or boots to form to your feet. They are definitely better than most factory insoles. You need to remove the factory insole before heating and forming them to your feet. They go in warm NOT hot so yo can stand in the boots until they cool and form to your feet. Really nice in any shoe, or boot. I have not needed them in my Cabelas or Danners but might do it since I like the way they form to my feet. They are very durable and won't compress like the factory insoles. They flex inside when your walking if the shoe flexes.
https://secure.yoursole.com/us/mens/footbeds/softec-response/
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Obenaufs-Heavy-Duty-Leather-Preservative-oz/749374.uts?productVariantId=1739847&WT.tsrc=PPC&WT.mc_id=GoogleProductAds&WT.z_mc_id1=80114981&rid=20&gcl id=CM7syKTp1s4CFVBgfgodzs4GKA&gclsrc=aw.ds (http://www.cabelas.com/product/Obenaufs-Heavy-Duty-Leather-Preservative-oz/749374.uts?productVariantId=1739847&WT.tsrc=PPC&WT.mc_id=GoogleProductAds&WT.z_mc_id1=80114981&rid=20&gclid=CM7syKTp1s4CFVBgfgodzs4GKA&gclsrc=aw.ds)
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I have always had good luck with unisulated Miendel (sp?) But I am not sure anything will stay dry for 3 or more days constantly soaked. I switched boots this year to Lowas.....we'll see. If at all possible I have a propane boot dryer at camp. Careful though it does take a toll on a boot, just use sparingly.
My hunt this year will be will be 3-4 days backpacking and back to camp to resupply and move. I'll do this for 2 weeks....I will have my boot dryer at the truck for sure.
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It might be worth your while to post this on the rokslide forums. Lots of gearcentric stuff over there.
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I think gore tex gaiters matched with gore tex boots are the key to dry feet. I wear Outdoor Research Crocodile gaiters and Asolo Bajura boots and they seem to work for me.
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You have some of the best boots out there!
In really wet conditions gaitors are mandatory, I am been told that Schnees' makes some good rubber bottom mountain boots. Another option is an uninsulated boot with some goretex socks that you change everyday
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Did you try waxing them? That can help a bit.
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I don't think there's a leather boot out there that won't soak up water after enough days of wet exposure. Treat them all you want and they will still eventually get damp after several days. The only totally waterproof leather boot is going to be a Gore-Tex model in my mind.
From experience: I was in AK last August and got caught in a monster 5+ day storm above treeline. I was wearing Zamberlan Vioz 1012 boots all day every day in totally wet conditions. They were well treated ahead of the hunt. After 3 days the leather was damp with absorbed moisture. No water or moisture ever got to my feet despite being in the wettest conditions I've ever encountered.
Rubber is waterproof but might not work in some environments.
Treat your leather well right before the hunt. Consider carrying enough cream or grease for one application during the hunt.
In wet conditions wear gaiters but take them off once things get dry. Gaiters will hold moisture next to your boots.
Work hard to keep your boots dry and if they get damp do what you can to dry them out.
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I admit to not treating the boots with a waterproofer much. My feet were wet within ten minutes of just walking through open tundra. Seems a synthetic boot may be good.
Kevin what kind of waterproofing you use. That sounds pretty good performance on your boots.
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Hard to beat Snow Seal .
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This is one of the big reasons I'm a fan of Limmer boots for rough terrain in wet conditions. They're built with a single seam on the inside of the arch to minimize water infiltration. The leather is top quality. Coupled with their Limmer Boot Grease, they'll keep you dry when other boots disappoint. If you maintain them properly, you'll be surprised at their performance in wet conditions: Limmer Stock Boots (http://www.limmercustomboot.com/cgi-bin/CustomBoot/limmer.pl?domain=info&name=stock)
Having owned a couple pair of boots with Gore-Tex liners, I'm not a big fan (love the stuff for outerwear, however). The boot liners do not last long enough in my experience to be worth buying.
For lowland swamps and the like, I use the LaCrosse Alphaburly Sport.
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I've never had a leather boot with a Goretex liner that didn't eventually leak. The only thing that works for me is to wear a thin silk liner sock and a waterproof Goretex sock over the top. There are several waterproof socks available but most of them are too thick and throw off my boot fit. I use the Rocky Goretex Oversocks from REI. They work incredibly well, keep my feet dry, breathe reasonably well and are durable. They also fit perfectly with my boots.
https://www.rei.com/product/688268/rocky-gore-tex-oversocks-socks
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Xtra tufs are kind of a standard for that type of hunting. A pretty good compromise between support and flexibility in a rubber boot. Not optimal for side-hilling but if you hike in them awhile and your feet and ankles are good you get used to it. You can get little blue booties called "bammas" to wear in them for more warmth. And swap them out when they get damp.
Something else are Peet propane boot dryers. They work well in the right conditions and weigh almost nothing (but the can of propane does). It needs to be relatively warm out for them to work in a reasonable amount of time as they have just a tiny flame and really don't produce much heat. I wouldn't carry them far but if you make camp above tree line right near your drop off they're an option.
Colder weather and real mountains I think it's back to some kind of leather boots. And likely at least occasionally wet feet.
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I use snow seal on my leather boots, and I also get boots with Goretex lining. I have never found a completely waterproof leather boot. Seal them really good, I coat them with seal and then heat them to soak the seal in good and do this until the leather will not absorb anymore. Also I treat the inside of the boot where there is no lining, just depends on the boot but usually around the tongue and eyelets.
I also use gaiters, Kenetrek, and they really help in wet brush and grass. We get LOTS of rain in western Washington state and the Cascade foothills were I hunt. I have tried Goretex socks but they were not for me, I have a really hard foot to fit with an extremely high arch and a bad hammer toe due to a baseball injury.
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Forgot to mention that for wet sheep and goat hunts some guys use the plastic mountaineering boots with replaceable liners. They just swap liners out when they get wet. Never tried it myself.
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Sorry, but I just can't relate. I can see where if the outer leather is wet and you're walking/climbing hard, the sweat will not be able to evaporate through the wet outer leather, but when someone tells me their boots were soaking wet within the 1st hour, I can only think of 2 things:
1. You went in over the tops or water/snow drained down into the boot.
2. The boots were not waterproof.
I have 2 pairs of Meindl boots; both Goretex lined. One pair is non-insulated hikers. The other is all-leather insulated tall boots.Both are 11 years old. I can stand in water up to just below the top and not get wet feet. The first thing I do when I get a new pair of Goretex lined boots is to stand in water for at least 1/2 hour. If the boots leaked, they would go right back for replacement. I will grant you once the leather is completely soaked on the outside, it will take them a long time to fully dry, but the inside will be dry.
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cacciatore, I think you broke the code. I have never used gaiters, but I noticed while in South Africa recently, both the PHs wore gaiters. They said it kept out the sand and, most importantly, loose thorns. I imagine it would work just as well to keep out rain and snow.
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Lots of good ideas out theere. Have any of you guys tried any hip waders you liked? A lot of the old time alaskans did all their hunting in hip boots. Including the famous bear guides Pinnell and Talifson on Kodiak.
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While I was guiding bear, moose, and caribou hunters in Ak, I would often wear a pair of lacrosse ankle fit hip boots. They were no heavier than stout leather boots and combined with a full length rain coat, kept your entire lower half dry. We put a lot of miles on those boots and they seemed to hold up well.
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Well their more designed for the urban jungle lol. But I use 5.11 taclite boots for work and everything else. They are comfortable, waterproof, and light. Rubber soles and come in 6 and 8 inch height. They can be had for about 100 bucks at any police supply. I wear them every shift for about 14 hours and work just fine. Like I said I wear them in the woods too. Highly recommend.
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For Kodiak I have not wore anything but the Lacrosse Alpha burly rubber boots for years. For leather boots I have a pair of Asolo that are goretex lined that I wore on an 8 day sheep hunt last year and paired with a set of short gaiters they held up to an all day hike in the rain without leaking.
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Treatments: I have used Snow Seal, Montana Pitch Blend, Schnee's, Bear Grease, Obenauf's and several others. They all work but they all fail if they aren't done properly and applied before a hunt. Zamberlan Boots recommends a product called Hydrobloc and I've used it. It's a cream instead of a grease. My boot leather did a great job resisting moisture, but 5-7 days of nothing but rain/snow and no sunshine eventually made the leather darken with dampness. The Gore-Tex liner kept my socks and feet totally dry.
I prefer rubber knee boots for moose and wet-country hunts where the terrain isn't as challenging. I've worn Lacrosse Alpha Burley boots for 10+ days straight and no issues. I take them off midday and let them air a while. Change socks perhaps. Forget the wetness and just hunt.
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My solution, if the hunt is not in winter conditions, is to wear breathable mesh footwear. They work great in the Rockies for September elk, even for packing meat. Remember, skin is waterproof! And they dry out in a heartbeat.
As some have pointed out, Goretex boots all leak. And when they do, they'll NEVER dry. Plus, when it's dry outside, you're still wearing your "rain gear" on your feet and sweating up a storm. Goretex and footwear don't mix.
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PistolPete. Sorry, but I have to disagree with your basic statement that "Goretex boots all leak."
This simply is not a true statement. Some do, but they are defective to start with.
As for wearing my "rain gear" and sweating up a storm, back when I wore a younger man's clothes, I jogged 3 K every morning before work and my feet were the only things that weren't sweating. Sure, if you coat the outside with wax as someone suggested, or grease so heavy it fills all the pores, they will sweat. That is not the way Goretex is designed to work. I'm on my second generation of Goretex boots - the first lasted 14 years and 3x re-soling. My current generation is 11 years old, have been re-soled once and are going strong. NONE of them have leaked and I test them every year by standing in water up to the tops.
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Hey Blade - you're right, Goretex is designed to be "waterproof" and "breathable." But in practice, it fails at both. It's why you'd only wear a Goretex jacket in the rain, why you wouldn't have worn one while running, unless it was raining.
Standing in water for a minute or two is not much of a test of waterproof-ness. Walking a few miles through wet grass will sure show you. But if your boots are lasting 10+ years, and are still "waterproof," then that tells me you just aren't that hard on them -- and good for you. I've worn out very nice/expensive boots in 1-2 hard seasons in the mountains. And the waterproof-ness was the first thing to go, typically right about when they're just getting broken in. The problem is that the Goretex membrane is just not durable enough to handle the repeated flexing and wear in boots.
Hey, if it works for you, great. But as evidenced by many here including myself, Goretex is an all too common failing point in footwear.
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Turkey foot- I used ankle fit rubber hip boots for a lot of years and they were pretty good when walking thru tall wet veg, and not much elevation change. Nowadays for the same kind of things I use goretex wading pants. I've walked and floated a number of streams on Kodiak and elsewhere with them and they're awesome. But if I'm really climbing I prefer the Xtra tufs or hiking boots. Just my 2 cents.
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"I've worn out very nice/expensive boots in 1-2 hard seasons in the mountains. And the waterproof-ness was the first thing to go, typically right about when they're just getting broken in. The problem is that the Goretex membrane is just not durable enough to handle the repeated flexing and wear in boots."
True statement!
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I've had the opposite experience with Gore-Tex. My first pair were Rocky boots back in the '80s and they were basically a junk boot. I stepped up to better boots with brands like LL Bean, Cabela's, Browning, Zamberlan, Lowa and a few others. I've had extremely good results with GT boots...not perfect...over a 25 year stretch. Any other all-leather boot without GT quickly took on water no matter how detailed I was about sealing seams and applying waterproofing agents.
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I have both the Kenetrek and Meindal boots you used. I coated them with that boot grease Kenetrek sells a week prior to the hunt in BC. The only issue I had was not wearing my KUIU gaiters for a short hike and stepped in a hole over the boot.
I prefer the Meindal with the gaiters and try to get them off my feet if I am holed up glassing. I also use a sock liner and wool sock, changing as much as I can.
I think where you were there is no easy solution. I am heading there someday and know now I most likely will have wet feet because I am too hard headed to change :)
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good thread-thax to all for the observations
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As has been said before... I can't disagree MORE with PistolPete on his recommending mesh tenni runners for serious mountain hunts. I have floated the idea amongst other locals just to make sure I'm not missing something. I get laughs as responses....
Remember Bozeman is home of Kenetrek, Randy Newberg, Jason Matzeninger, Meat Eater production crew, etc. I'm not polling yokels.
Maybe if one stays on trails and is hunting far enough south. Tenni runners would be fine. However, good support and Gore tex are understood as critical up here in the northern Rockies on mountain hunts.
I will agree that most people only get a couple three seasons out of top end boots hunting in steep country. But smart use of dressing and gaitors mitigates 90% of the troubles being described.
PS Kevin's first post I couldn't agree with more.
Jeff
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I'll just add that Outdoor Research Crocodile gaiters have covered my ankles and shins for lots of wet days and nights, including in Alaska and in the Pacific Northwest. They're an essential part of my gear for all but summer conditions. When they're fitted properly, they'll even keep water from coming in your boots while wading, at least for most stream crossings.
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I agree with Kevin on Gore Tex. I have been fortunate to have a few that were amazing. One set were Meindl Denali's. I have had them for 11-12 years and they are still waterproof. I treat them with pitch blend several times a year. The soles are falling off but they literally have thousands of miles in several states on them. Not all are created equal though. I would give $1000 for another as good as them. The others were Kenetreks and Danner Santiams.
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I've hunted goats and sheep quite a bit in Koflach plastic mountaineering boots.
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Hey Montana - by all means, use what you like, bud. But if I used what others told me I needed, heck, I'd be shooting a 2016 Bowtech with Rage broadheads and head to toe Sitka! (so about like Randy Newberg...)
I use what works best from what I've personally tried. So if you get the itch, just make sure you try some trail runners without Goretex and with a low stack height. That gives the shoe much less leverage on your ankle (ever roll an ankle barefoot? It's almost impossible). And, of course, I'm talking bow season, not late November.
Best of luck!
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Pete,
Exactly, to each their own... If you feel comfortable in tenni runners, thats your choice.
I just want to make sure someone who doesn't have any experience in rugged mountain terrain doesn't drink your Kool aid and have a miserable or even dangerous hunt.
All your other arguments aside, the beating my feet take from boulders, deadfall, scree, heck even stobs the protrude from downfall would be ten to one hundred fold if I didn't have the protection of a leather boot. There are some hunts that leave my feet pummeled (and I'm hunting rugged boots). In mesh I would be crippled....
I would hate for someone to impale their instep stumbling through dark timber in the dark because they followed your advice. That would turn a good hunt into a done hunt....
Jeff
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If life were as simple as using what an expert recommends, there would be only one bowyer, one rifle maker, one boot maker, etc.
Pete, I respect your choice of footwear. You're the one wearing it and you have your experience. I do resent your implying I'm a couch potato who doesn't use my boots, and tests them by standing in a puddle for a couple of minutes. Re-read my post. I said that I stood in water up to the tops FOR AT LEAST 1/2 HOUR every year. Those boots were up and down the alps chamoix hunting many times and they had to be re-soled 3 times. My current set of boots do not get used that hard, as I'm 75 with severe arthritis, but they are on their second set of Vibram soles. I respect your opinions until you start making blanket statements like "all Goretex boots leak". You do not have a right to make that statement because you have not worn all Goretex boots. You are more than welcome to put mine on and walk for hours in wet grass or snow and you will not have wet feet. Qualify your statements to read "all the Goretex boots I've owned leak" and I will accept that as the truth.
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I was doing a training hike a few months back. I mistakenly wore crosstrainer type tenni's with a 45 lb pack. Rugged rock strewn trail ....7 miles total. My feet were thrashed.
I'll never make that mistake again
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Sorry, all; apparently I've stepped on some toes (pun not intended!) and derailed this thread.
I wish you all the best this fall, no matter your footwear of choice!
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I have wet feet, from water or sweat. I would be more concerned about ankle support and how tired my feet are. Staying dry in monsoon conditions and being outdoors will never happen. I would be trying to figure out a way to dry my boots and socks even if that requires sleeping with them.
As for wearing them out in a season or two I look upon that as a cost of the trip.
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I like my kennetreks in wet conditions and they haven't let me down. Here's another boot that hasn't let me down, muck boots (Arctic model) they have more support than one realises and I've used them in mountains and about 14 inches of snow. They keep me warm and dry. I have one ankle that bugs me a bit so I've got a very good ankle brace that I can wear inside the boot no problem. If I wasn't so cheap I'd get two braces and each foot would be stable. Give the muck boots a try on a short trip and you might be surprised.
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I love muck bootd for the mountains but most dont have good tread. If i could get some in Air bob soles!
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I think they've got great treads! Maybe mine are different. Although a set of crampons would turn anyone into a human ATV.
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Best advice I ever got on the subject, from a guide in Newfoundland...."Wear boots that are comfortable wet, because you are gonna get wet"
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I do use the Kahtoola MICROspikes (https://kahtoola.com/product/microspikes/) paired with the Lacrosse Alpha Burly rubber boots for hunting on Kodiak in November. The spikes are great for the steep slick sidehills. and they are light enough that they are not a issue to have them in your pack.
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Thats a great idea akdd!
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Really surprised about your experience with the Meindl boots. I have worn mine elk hunting on three trips, and have been very happy with them. I do treat them with silicon spray and Obendorf treatment.
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One thing not mentioned here is an ol' tip from sled mushers, trappers, etc. . . use those handwarmers that are similar to a large cigarette lighter. https://www.amazon.com/Zippo-12-Hour-Warmer-Chrome-Silver/dp/B013HLGTL2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1472441022&sr=8-1&keywords=zippo+hand+warmers.
Also they have felt lined aluminum cases that have a small bar of fuel you light with a lighter. https://www.amazon.com/Celsius-Solid-Fuel-Hand-Warmer/dp/B00305KAUW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1472440850&sr=8-2&keywords=fuel+stick+hand+warmers
Place those warmers in your boots at night and they are dry by the AM.
Dan in KS
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I do not think the hand warmer with the solid fuel can legally be carried on an airplane.
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I will start by saying, I have the luxury of hunting from a wall tent or Tipi every fall. I pack a llama string and that affords me comforts some do without.
With that said, The first thing I do at the end of my day, is disrobe from my hunting clothes and put on my "camp" shoes. Even on dry days I pull my insoles from my boots to let them breathe. Most insoles have a plastic backing that traps sweat. If my boots are damp, I pull the tongue down to really open them and I lay them on their side in the ring of warmth of the stove. Note warmth not heat.
Moist air is more dense than than dry air, so by laying them on their side you are allowing evaporative moist air to flow out of your boot. I rarely have anything but bone dry boots by morning.
I like Dan's Idea of adding warmth inside the boot for drying! Especially for you guys with out access to a stove.
Alaska or the pacific northwest may be a different beast... The mountain west is generally arid. When given a chance things dry very quickly on their own. Most people I know that hunt the Coastal states or Alaska just resign to being wet at some level.