Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: forestdweller on September 04, 2016, 09:46:00 PM
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Hey guys, I've been shooting a recurve for a little while and the more traditional simpler longbow has been drawing me in especially considering my favorite all time shooters used one.
I'm also drawn to the longbow because from what I have heard most do not even require a set of silencers for them to be very quiet and because they are supposedly more forgiving.
With my recurve it can be a PITA because they can require brush buttons, limb pads, and silencers.
Basically I'm switching to the longbow because it's simpler and supposedly more forgiving of user error.
What can I expect shooting a longbow coming from a recurve? Are they much more difficult to shoot and significantly slower than a recurve?
I've heard some say they are more forgiving of torque but am unsure of how true this is.
Also I will be hunting in dense forest, is hunting with a 66" or 68" longbow very cumbersome vs a 62-64" recurve?
Also I shoot from all distances (up to about 50 yards for now, my best shot was hitting a tennis ball from 50 yards) so I'm curious as to if their lighter weight can be a problem shooting at longer distances.
And I shoot a lot so I am more than willing to put in the time and effort to learn how to shoot the longbow.
Thanks and take care.
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The biggest thing for me to learn was , to keep my bow arm slightly bent .
If you keep your arm straight , it will jolt your whole body .
Wasn't hard to learn once it was pointed out to me .
What price range are you looking at ?
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Originally posted by Graps:
The biggest thing for me to learn was , to keep my bow arm slightly bent .
If you keep your arm straight , it will jolt your whole body .
Wasn't hard to learn once it was pointed out to me .
What price range are you looking at ?
I actually already keep a bent bow arm as it feels a lot more comfortable for me and I feel like I am more stable and stronger at full draw and can get a cleaner release with no wrist slap as well.
I had a problem for nearly a year where I was getting wrist slap but the bent bow arm fixed that.
My price range is pretty low, about $200-$300 for now.
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You might be able to find something used in that price range .
You might consider becoming a contributing member so you can access the classifieds on here .
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I shoot both and I think one can be slightly more accurate with a recurve for primarily two reasons. Pound for pound, they're a little quicker, which translates to flatter trajectory, which means less aiming error. Second, they usually have considerably more mass in the riser, which makes them easier to hold on target. Look at the scores at 3-D shoot; the highest scores are almost always posted by recurve shooters. Too, all olympic archers shoot recurves. They wouldn't have to.
That being said, a longbow is easier to maneuver in the woods, IMO, and lends itself to a quicker shooting style, not haphazard, but perhaps not as deliberate as a recurve. They're easier to get on target more quickly. At reasonable ranges, any differences in accuracy will be negligible.
IMO, 50 yards is too far to shoot at a critter with a traditional or any other bow. Even if you can hit the target (and hitting a tennis ball once at 50 yards doesn't mean you can do the same on a critter) there are often things in the way that will deflect your arrow at that range that you can't see, and/or, the animal can take a half a step and what might have been a good shot becomes a bad shot.
It's fine to practice at long ranges, but discipline yourself to only take shots at critters that you know you can make every time. Good luck.
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I used to be SURE that a huge difference is present. I feel that the only differences are using a stringer and high early draw weight on a recurve vs the push/pull stringing and higher late draw weight of the typical r/d longbow. I am not a strong believer in a difference at all, unless you carry a strong belief that there actually is one.
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I go along with Orion. I shoot my recurves better, quicker.
Either way I judge my shooting by being able to put that first arrow in the kill at reasonable hunting range. For me that is up to 25 yards.
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Originally posted by Orion:
I shoot both and I think one can be slightly more accurate with a recurve for primarily two reasons. Pound for pound, they're a little quicker, which translates to flatter trajectory, which means less aiming error. Second, they usually have considerably more mass in the riser, which makes them easier to hold on target. Look at the scores at 3-D shoot; the highest scores are almost always posted by recurve shooters. Too, all olympic archers shoot recurves. They wouldn't have to.
That being said, a longbow is easier to maneuver in the woods, IMO, and lends itself to a quicker shooting style, not haphazard, but perhaps not as deliberate as a recurve. They're easier to get on target more quickly. At reasonable ranges, any differences in accuracy will be negligible.
IMO, 50 yards is too far to shoot at a critter with a traditional or any other bow. Even if you can hit the target (and hitting a tennis ball once at 50 yards doesn't mean you can do the same on a critter) there are often things in the way that will deflect your arrow at that range that you can't see, and/or, the animal can take a half a step and what might have been a good shot becomes a bad shot.
It's fine to practice at long ranges, but discipline yourself to only take shots at critters that you know you can make every time. Good luck.
I appreciate your response (and everyone else's response as well).
I do not plan on taking any shots at any critter at 50 yards, I should of been more clear and stated that I plan on using whatever longbow that I get for field/3D as well where 50 yard shots are not uncommon.
I can see your point on the weight difference in the riser aiding to ones stability. I tried out a bow quiver once and was surprised at how my bow just wanted to stay glued to the target with it on.
I'm not much of a speed freak so the loss in speed does not bother me (I can shoot between 9-12gpp without any noticeable difference in accuracy even at longer distances).
However, if they are easier to maneuver in the woods that's a huge benefit in my opinion.
I'm just curious, how much of a speed difference are we talking between your typical fiberglass laminated recurve and fiberglass laminated longbow if both bows are the same draw weight using the same arrow weight?
If it's more than say 20fps than I can see that being a slight problem when shooting at further distances.
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I think speed will be relative of the particular bow, rather then a recurve vs. Longbow thing. I have 3 recurves about the same draw weights as my 2 r/d longbows. There is absolutely no doubt the longbows are faster. Its not always the case though. I can tell you, the maddog bows I own will rival most any recurves speed of the same weight, and I hear Omega bows will too. It just depends on what bow you are talking about.
Todays r/d bows, allows you to get a great feeling, high performance longbow at a much shorter overall length. I like 58"-62 " r/d bows.
Mine, are definitely far more quiet as they are made, though a recurve certainly can be made quiet.
I like the light carry of the LB....on long shooting sessions my bow arm gets tired of holding out the heavier recurve.
Feel, again largely depends on make. Some longbows shake you to death, but some are dead in the hand as an average recurve is.
Mass weight to help shooting feel and stabilization can be had by a lightweight strap on quiver. Makes a light, stable, deadly combination.
Accuracy depends on the shooter. I personally shoot longbows better then recurves. Ive robin hooded and broken more nocks then I about can stand with my longbows, not so with the recurves. Some of the best shots in history shot longbow, but some best also shot recurves. I believe its purely what fits you better, not so much of what bow performs better. These days and ages with the r/d and hybrids out....there is virtually no difference between them and recurves in performance.
More tolerant to mistakes? I have not personally seen anything that makes me believe that.
By the way, one is no more traditional then the other, or more simple. They are both ancient.
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I'm mainly a recurve shooter and that is because of one thing. Grip. I need a good locator grip for accuracy reasons. I've shot a few hill bows and just can't get constant with them like many guys are. I have 2 longbows one I absolutely love I just wish it was a 60# bow instead of 50. It's a Bodnik slick stick. I have the 58" model and I can shoot it as good as my recurves. I think you can get them new for about $300. Imo best bang for your buck. They are plenty fast and very quiet with the stock bear paw skinny string. Add cat whiskers and a 10gpp arrow and they are flat out silent. Check out Braveheart archery they have them I think
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mm biggest thing i notice is grip, many recurves place your hand so that the pressure is in the web on your hand between pointer finger and thumb, most longbows the pressure is lower in the pad of your hand.
Many longbows have lower brace heights, you might need to adjust grip or elbow slightly if you are used to shooting a high brace.
r/d longbows give you the best of both imo, speed and stability.
Plus.... I like longbows because I am lazy and they dont need a stringer ;)
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The slick stick is a really nice looking bow especially for $300, shame they don't make it in 66" or 68".
I guess I'm better off with a full fledged longbow at the longer length's as it seems as though they don't make hybrids at 66" and 68".
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Originally posted by Mitch Edwards:
I'm mainly a recurve shooter and that is because of one thing. Grip. I need a good locator grip for accuracy reasons. I've shot a few hill bows and just can't get constant with them like many guys are.
I bet most bowyers would be able to make you any grip style you wanted, if you asked them
I think a grip that was similar to the 59 kodiak on r/d longbow would be wonderful. :archer:
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forestdweller - check out one of the sponsors here, Kustom King Archery.
The longbow they offer, called the Black Forest, may work for you. 64" length, and a grip less like a Hill style. Made by Bearpaw, performance is top notch from all I've been able to learn. Much like their Slick Stick or Quick Stick hybrids.
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Idk quite how this got into a bow suggestions thing.....
But for $300 you can have a custom by maddog archery choosing your own woods annd particulars. Very fast, quiet, no hand shock, and very accurate.
Another great low cost bow are Omega originals.
Both these bows are top notch shooters....made by hand with love, right here in the USA.
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Welcome to the finer side of trad. Longbows are fun, and, in my opinion, are easier to shoot well. There are some differences in the way a longbow likes to be handled, but none of this stuff is rocket science. In short, it not that difficult to adjust to. I shoot the Hill style bows, and sooner or later, you will probably be drawn to them also, which means you will also want to at least give wooden arrows a try.
Don't get rid of your recurves, though. Even though I shoot longbows almost exclusively, I still pull out the curves now and again. By shooting both straight and bent bows, you will be the complete traditional archer. LOTS OF FUN!
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Originally posted by Sam McMichael:
LOTS OF FUN!
That's the truth.
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Thanks for the suggestions guys. I'm going to take a look into all of the bows suggested.
The reason why I'm looking to upgrade is because I currently shoot a Samick Sage and the bow torques like crazy and feels very unforgiving and is hard to get a good release with (especially with the 40# limbs I have on it).
I'm going to keep it as a "trainer bow" since it's so unforgiving of user error.
I've heard that longbow's and hybrids are much more difficult to torque and thus are more forgiving which got my attention.
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I'm sure you've heard this before, but before you shell out your cash for your first longbow, try to get to a trad shoot and shoot someone else's. There are 68" longbows out there that are mild R/D with a strong locator grip if you like that. The mild R/D bows string up like a "D" type longbow, but often have just a bit more speed than a straight or backset longbow. Kind of a compromise between the radical R/D and a straight longbow. The Mohawk Sparrowhawk comes to mind.
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The reason I started to recommend bows is because the op said his budget was 2-300 and the only bow I personally know of that fits all the criteria that is an easy transition for a recurve shooter is the bow I recommend.
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There is absolutely no difference in shoot-ability between a longbow and recurve per say. The differences are subjective.
But if you want to compare two specific bows, then you will have a list of differences.
My recommendation is buy a R/D long bow and then decide whether you want to go more hybrid or more ASL or if you are happy with the R/D
If you are like most of us, you will have all of them lol.
Enjoy!
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If I was hitting tennis balls at 50 yds, I wouldn't change a thing..........
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I have found that any archer always needs at least one more bow.
Msturm
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Don't do it. Once you start down the long bow path it's like a disease. It takes over your life.
They are thing of beauty.
A joy to shoot.
Easy to carry.
Deadly.
Just my opinion based on my 24 year love affair with longbows.
Joe
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Originally posted by namvet6971:
If I was hitting tennis balls at 50 yds, I wouldn't change a thing..........
Truth be told that was my best shot shooting targets that I ever pulled off and it took me at least 30 arrows before I was able to hit it.
I'm a precision freak though and if a longbow R/D or straight limbed bow will give me more stability I'll take it.
I think for now I'm going to try out a friend's higher limb weight recurve and see if it's any more forgiving and in the mean time save up for my first straight limbed longbow.
I think the R/D bow's look really beautiful and classic but if I'm going to try the longbow out I want to go all the way and get a straight limbed 66"-68" bow which also happen to be slightly cheaper in most cases.
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Some bowyers have a try-before-you-buy program. I have taken advantage of that option. If you narrow it down to a specific bow, it is a good option.
I love shooting my longbows, but I find them harder on my shoulder/elbow. It may be just that my heavier recurves deaden handshock a little better. Or that I don't hold it properly.
I don't hear to many other people talk about this so maybe it is just me.
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If you like d profile when strung. Beat Montana has very light r and d and has a d profile strung. Also happens to be a fantastic shooter.
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Originally posted by forestdweller:
The reason why I'm looking to upgrade is because I currently shoot a Samick Sage and the bow torques like crazy and feels very unforgiving and is hard to get a good release with (especially with the 40# limbs I have on it).
I'm going to keep it as a "trainer bow" since it's so unforgiving of user error.
Interesting to say the least...
Good luck trying other type of bows, but you might be disappointed.
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I made the switch from recurves to a hill longbow about 7 years ago, which led to an interest in making my own yew wood longbow. Watch out for that rabbit hole...its deep. But there is nothing like making your own bows.
And nothing is quieter and more forgiving than a well made yew longbow with a touch of string follow.
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Have any of you tried out any of the Samick longbows? They look quite affordable at $200. I saw a pic of one unbraced and it appears to be nearly 100% flat with thick narrow limbs and only a very slight amount of R/D.
Referring to the post up above what I meant by "unforgiving" is that I have found that if my grip pressure is off even slightly it can throw my shot off left or right even within 20 yards.
Adding a bow quiver alone makes my bareshaft's show up drastically stiffer as the quiver torques the bow. That goes to show how sensitive my current recurve is.
I've thought about what I would like in a new bow and it's stability, a bow where if I grip it less than ideal or apply more pressure than what's ideal my shot will not be effected as much and will decrease my left/right misses.
I'd be willing to give up quite a bit of speed for added stability especially if it decreases my left/right misses.
I do know that there are recurves that supposedly do not torque such as the HEX recurves/limbs but they are way out of my price range and supposedly have breakage problems due to their extreme recurve design.
Thanks again everyone for your input and advice I greatly appreciate it!
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OK forestdweller, gotcha. I shoot Samick Sage 55# and I find it very stable - at least for me - but comparing to my old Ben Pearson Hunter the grip is slimmer. If my problem would have been the grip, I would try bows with meatier grip, or ones that will force the hand to stay in same place every time I get it in my hand - pistol like maybe. I would try a longbow before buying one - especially when the $$ is limited, the disappointment of not getting what you thought will be bigger.