Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: DanielB89 on October 07, 2016, 09:00:00 PM
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I am curious as to many guys here hunt a non natural food source while hunting?
I am referring to a corn feeder, (I wouldn't say a food plot), rice bran, etc.
I recently got in a lease in Arkansas and pretty much "the way" to hunt it is by feeder. I got in it from a lack of time to scout local public land and liked the idea of being able to have something to hunt on a saturday am without having proper time to scout.
I will still hunt public land when I have a couple of days to hunt, but probably wont when I only have a saturday to hunt and scout.
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never ever ever.
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All natural for me. I know a lot of people that do , it's just. It for me.
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Not until this year. I kept a pile of windfall apples going for about 6 weeks before season opened on my own property. Didn't hunt it much but did whack a forky due to an empty freezer.
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I do. I started using them about five years ago when my kids started hunting. I wanted them to be able to watch deer and not feel it necessary to shoot. By doing so, I also found that I enjoyed the higher number of animals seen. Not just deer, but other animals as well.
I always start with a light amount of feed several weeks before season. Then will also continue with a light amount of feed usually to the end of March. Sometimes longer if the winter is rough.
Some may think it's "cheating" or makes hunting to easy. I agree you will see more animals, but trying to get a shot off is very difficult. The deer are very cautious while approaching and while at the feeder. I usually set up at a distance and try to get shots as deer approach the feeder. I have watched ol mama does walk 360 degrees around a feeder at a distance of 50-100yds to scent check and make sure it was safe.
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I have no interest in shooting anything over a feeder or feed.
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I'll hunt over acorns...so if there was an feeder, whats the difference?
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I could go into a long rambling discourse, but I'll just say no, I don't use them, have no use for them, and leave it at that.
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I'm gonna go get some popcorn! This is gonna be good!
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In my area hunting has become very competitive. Most farms around where I hunt run feeders. I put out some corn and cameras to "see what is around", but don't hunt over it.
That said, I moved one stand today and put up another where deer are hitting the white oaks hard. The scent I leave just doing that is bad enough. I can't imagine frequently filling feeders.
Very divisive subject here.
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I would if it were legal here.
I'm not sure why I shouldn't be able to use feed to get a deer to step on my little piece of ground once in a while.
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Ive got great deer populations where I hunt. If I had few or no deer to deal with from lack of feed, I might plant one though. With already existing deer pops, the deer bed, and the deer feed, and they move between the two leaving sign as they do. Why should I sink more money into an already expensive endeavor by adding a feeder? Obviously there is already feed there, or the deer would not be. I dont mind taking the time to figure out the bed areas, and feed areas....its part of the excitement for me. In my area, the use of feeders and hunting over them, are deminishing the hunters ability to read sign effectively. So many depend on them alone, and are lost without one not knowing what to even do.
I personally dont see any advantage to a feeder for my particular case, and would just empty my already thin wallet.
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I hunted hogs over a feeder once.
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Way of life here in Texas....I won't spend everyone's time trying to change anyone's mind or to justify it, but as Bvas said, I am convinced that deer that are used to feeders are 10X more 'on edge' than otherwise, and I believe it is or can be passed on generationally.
No piece of cake, and big bucks don't get big gorging at corn feeders.
Daniel, if you go that route, PM me...
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I hunted over feeders a few times when I was a kid but quit when I realized I was seeing the deer without the added effort anyhow.
I hunted over feeders on a hog hunt once. It was OK and probably the only way to hunt that time of year on that specific property. The camaraderie and fellowship on that hunt were what made it.
I may try one on a bear hunt but still am on the fence about that.
For, deer squirrels and turkey by me.... No.....
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Seems like everyone baits in DE. Drives me nuts. I'm not a big fan. A lot of new guys think they're hunters now but admittedly won't even go if they "don't have corn out". If you have turkeys, it's almost pointless unless you have deep pockets as they will flat out clean it up.
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If I was a deer, I know for certain id be way more spooky and on edge around a feeder, so id never doubt that... The frequency of associated human scent alone would make me one paranoid creature!
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If its legal in your state, have at it if you prefer. I personally don't hunt over feeders but to each their own.
Rodney
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Feeders are used a lot here, accepted way to hunt, while I run them and have stands near I also hunt areas within several hundred yards of the feeders and it is amazing the deer disposition well off the corn versus near it. Just got pics of a nice buck on a trial about 300 yards of my feeder. Next north wind when I can hunt you know where I will be.
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will NEVER hunt over a feeder or hunt in high fence area, also DETEST 4 wheeler's...
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Feeders and high fences. Yes, they're legal in a lot of states. No, they're not ethical. The first argument people make in favor of feeders or high fences is that "it's still hard!" as if implying that feeders/fences don't make things easier. But that argument is illogical, since if they don't make things easier, then why do people go to such trouble to and expense on feeders/fences?
Secondly, feeders are not the same as a food plot or oak tree. Let's just get over that lie. If they were the same, again, then why would people spend time and money feeding rather than planting an oak tree?
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Feeders have their place. Example, I have a very small tract of land that I hunt occasionally when I only have a few hours to hunt. Like after work. This small tract of land is nothing but small brush and a few small trees. Only 2-3 trees On the property that is big enough to hang a stand. It is surrounded buy good woods that holds a lot of deer. I have scouted it extensively and the deer didnt even cross this property, bed, or feed there. Now that I have a feeder there I pull a few deer over from the other property. Do I prefer to hunt this way, no. But I do when it's all I have or have time to do.
Now on the other hand, the place I hog hunt has feeders that go basically year around. To pull hogs from the neighboring properties. But if you think hunting a feeder is a gimme you are sadly mistaken! Especially on hogs! They Learn fast and only make a mistake one time! Hardest thing to hunt is an educated hog! juveniles are fairly easy. And I have never seen a mature buck at a feeder. It happens but I've never seen it.
So to each his own! You are only bound by what's legal and your OWN ethics!
Ps.. Feeders and high fence are two separate things!! One does not necessarily go with the other.
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I hunt "feed" all the time, be it acorns, clover, corn, soybeans, or persimmons.
Haven't hunted at a feeder, but don't worry what others do where it's legal.
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Originally posted by PistolPete:
Feeders and high fences. Yes, they're legal in a lot of states. No, they're not ethical. The first argument people make in favor of feeders or high fences is that "it's still hard!" as if implying that feeders/fences don't make things easier. But that argument is illogical, since if they don't make things easier, then why do people go to such trouble to and expense on feeders/fences?
Secondly, feeders are not the same as a food plot or oak tree. Let's just get over that lie. If they were the same, again, then why would people spend time and money feeding rather than planting an oak tree?
So are you saying that everyone who hunts a feeder is unethical?
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Originally posted by Crittergetter:
Do I prefer to hunt this way, no.
You said it yourself. If it were ethical, you'd love hunting that way.
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I said I didn't prefer to hunt that way, but I do from time to time. I prefer to hunt larger public ground. I also prefer to hunt the mountains of Wyoming. But don't always have the time to go there. And to imply that I don't prefer to hunt that way because It's unethical shows how close minded you and others are!
You are bound by what's legal and your OWN ethics!
I don't think for one minute that the way I hunt is unethical.
But I also don't judge others for the way they hunt.
To each his own.
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Originally posted by PistolPete:
Feeders and high fences. Yes, they're legal in a lot of states. No, they're not ethical. The first argument people make in favor of feeders or high fences is that "it's still hard!" as if implying that feeders/fences don't make things easier. But that argument is illogical, since if they don't make things easier, then why do people go to such trouble to and expense on feeders/fences?
People spend time and money on scents, calls, decoys etc. They also make things easier. Does that mean they are unethical as well?
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I wouldn't not because I think it's unethical but, b/c it spreads CWD and thats bad for the deer herd.
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This discourse isn't terrible but even here at Trad Gang this topic is difficult for some.
I'll answer the question. No I don't and won't. This is more a reflection of how I "grew up" deer hunting in a state (Indiana) where it was and is illegal.
Now I live in a state (KY) where it is legal and have a couple of very good friends who do it. My son would even like to do it (38 years old) on our property but I've asked him not too, and he respects my wishes. Would I disown him if he did? Nope.
One of my biggest enjoyments in deer hunting comes from scouting and determining patterns I can take advantage of (ambush). I have to admit, there are some GREAT trees (huge old eastern red cedars) that I'd love to hunt from, but deer don't frequent these areas during daylight enough to warrant my hunting from them. I think a feeder could turn most of these areas into productive stand locations.
If I resorted to using a feeder I believe I would do so to reduce the need to scout and increase the likelihood that I would see deer in bow range every hunt.
Finally, to demonstrate my inconsistency on this matter:
- I accepted a Texas hog hunt a few years ago and killed a hog and a white-tail doe from a blind with a feeder nearby.
- I've baited the heck to of spring bears and can barely imagine sitting on a Bear stand with any hope of seeing a bear (low densities)
- I will be planting food plots (1/4-3 acres each) on my farm next spring, to attract and hold area deer on my property in greater numbers, more often.
I fault no one who uses a feeder, if it is legal where they hunt.
P.S: This is the kind of thread that someone could get started to flush out folks unsuited for a civil forum. :)
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Never
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Originally posted by Bvas:
People spend time and money on scents, calls, decoys etc. They also make things easier. Does that mean they are unethical as well?
Not saying that at all. I'm only pointing out that pro-feeder/fence crowd argues that it doesn't make it easier, therefore it must be ethically acceptable.
It's part of a larger issue, and maybe a thread hijack (which I apologize for, if so), but I'm tired of the "if it's legal, you can't judge it" attitude. That logic implies that one's ethics are defined solely by whatever the law happens to be. That attitude certainly makes things simple and clean, which is easier for our minds to deal with, but I think ethics should be more of a struggle than simply reading the rules of a particular state.
The other problem is, then, that one's 'ethics' could simply be changed by a majority of voters changing a law, or by moving from one state to the other. Ethics should have more backbone than that.
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Super illegal in CO, no dice
Not upset about it either
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I completely understand and respect your opinion. However, what is ethical by one person may be not be ethical by another. There in lies the "problem".
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I have several feeders on my property, and try to have a couple food plots going as well. I would be just as content, more so, actually, if you were not allowed to bait. In areas where all of the neighbors have feeders, you will see a lot of the deer spending time on the neighbor's property if you don't have them. That being said. The vast majority of the time, they will use them after dark. For the most part, hunting over feeders on my property would just be a waste of time. It is am effective way to improve herd health in drought conditions, give mineral supplement, and get night but pics of the critters on your property.
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Pete, since you are from Virginia, how would you compare the ethics of feeders to that of hunting with dogs?
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I hunt only on public land so no baiting allowed
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i dont get why some people will say there against the feeder but at the same time will plant 1/4 acre of biologic your introducing something to there habbitat to tip the scale in your favor either way be it corn or planting a food plot just my .02 but either way your playing off of them being hungry
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When I refer to "legal" it must be legal before it may be considered for my checklist of ethical. If illegal, no matter if legal in other locations, it is unethical for me to do it.
If I "think" something should be legal but isn't, my opinion on the matter, matters not. I'm still not justified to do it.
I do agree that just because something is "legal" doesn't mean it automatically meet my ethical standards. There are MANY things legal that I wouldn't consider doing.
I also believe (for sure in my case) that one's ethics are molded by mentors (i.e. parents) and the law of the land where one growing up hunting.
I've moved 14 times in 4 states. The laws were somewhat different in each of those states.
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Where I lived in coastal SC baiting was legal. I hunted over bait a few times but soon realized that deer mostly hit feeders at night or were so spooked when they approached a feeder that it was impossible to get a good, clean shot. I would rather hunt a trail 100 yards from a feeder as to hunt right near one.
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Pat I agree it is a challenge to hunt around a feeder, however if setup nicely a good one may come in in daylight, the feeder is ten yards to the bucks right. Tree stand is 10 yards to the bucks left. A good one for the SC coast. I will admit this is not the norm though. The date is from the day taken from my wall paper on i-phone. Actual date was mid October 1 hour before dark. Operator error kept me from putting an arrow thru him the following week.
(http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab241/katman111/IMG_0569.png) (http://s868.photobucket.com/user/katman111/media/IMG_0569.png.html)
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Gery, that is a good coastal SC deer. Not many like that around...at least not 26 years ago. I hunted near Bluffton(now Colleton River Plantation, and Victoria Bluff WMA[no corn there]) and in Yamasee and had very little luck hunting over corn.
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Yep, I hunted him for 2 years before getting a shot. I hunt some private land below Georgetown, primarily a bow hunting club for 38 years, I am only trad guy. Showed pic to a friend that was the local biologist with SC DNR, he agreed 135-140, a heck of a buck for us on the coast especially with with no agriculture around.
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Feeding deer corn is just not my gig.
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I thought I had logged on to that "other" site. I will not pass judgment on those who do or don't. I shot a little six point last night after spotting it a couple of days earlier and planning an ambush, which just happened to work out perfectly. Certainly no monster but a very satisfying experience. No baiting involved. Nothing better with this type of archery than spotting and killing a specific animal on its own terms.
Baiting is a personal choice and there is no right or wrong involved with that choice.
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I hunt red and white oak feeders, some years someone forgets of fill them and they don't scatter any acorns. I plant food plots but don't hunt over them.
I would hunt hogs over a corn feeder but not deer.
If the freezer happens to become empty with no hope for replenishing it in sight, I will shoot a deer on one of my plots. So far one of my hunting buddies has always given me enough deer to keep me going so the deer on the food plots are safe.
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No baiting in Maine.
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If the argument is that baiting is unethical because it makes it too easy , then all rifle hunters are unethical. And maybe even compound hunters are unethical. What about modern recurves, longbows, carbon arrows, Tree stands, trail cameras , etc. Do only real hunters use a rock? And what kind of rock would be the most ethical to use?
Maybe we should just go hunting with whatever makes us happy. Kill whatever size deer that makes us happy. Just hunt with what makes you enjoy the hunt the most. Yeah it's got to be legal of course but even the game laws are very political nowadays. Just go hunting and quit trying to shame someone for the way they do it. Sure you can tease your compound buddies that they use training wheels etc but you can still give them a congratulatory pat on the back and listen to them excitedly tell their story of how the hunt unfolded. Those are memories that make hunting great. And nobody should be shamed out of the memory of a successful hunt.
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I wish the WI Natural Resources Board and DNR had gotten the permanent ban on baiting and feeding wildlife back in 2002-03 after the temporary moratorium when CWD hit.
In areas of northern WI, people bait so hard that the deer herd is kept artificially high and they have no natural browse left over when people stop feeding them just before winter sets in....a hard winter hits and many of them die.
They die way back in the winter deer yards where no one ventures, so they aren't really seen by the public. The public just sees no deer the next few seasons and then blames the DNR and Wolves.
For me, on a biological or ecological basis, baiting is just bad practice. On a personal level, sitting over a pile of corn just seems wrong and that's enough reason for me to rule that out as a way that I'll ever hunt.
On the upside for me, Sheboygan County doesn't allow baiting. So when I hunt near home in the State Forest, which straddles the Sheboygan/Fond du lac county border (in FDL county baiting is legal)....you see, most everyone around here hunting that area jumps over into the FDL county side to hunt over a bait pile.....leaving vast areas of public land relatively free from other hunters.
I roam a lot, have little spots or hides dotted all over the place fr different winds or conditions or seasons....I could never be pinned down to one spot in one tree....too much land that I haven't seen yet, and I add new spots every year.
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"I would hunt hogs over a corn feeder but not deer"
Now there is an interesting statement.
I agree with Rod's comments.
Basically it is whatever the individual is comfortable with.
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Rod in SC.
Your point about what makes a hunter happy is actually my barometer for an ethical decision...as long as it is legal.
Doesn't matter a bit to me what another hunter chooses regarding equipment, bait, crops, blind, stand, wool, camo, sights, release, etc.
EXCEPT: I'd like the hunter to know that if he/she talks about their decisions and results, they may be seen by some as "representative" of the typical bowhunter. I'd like that "typical" bowhunter to be a positive example for the rest of us so we will have opportunity to pass our passion down to as many generations as possible.
Case in point. I have a bear bowhunting story that I never share with non-hunters. Outcome was a dead bear but the process too graphic.
I think most bowhunters choose their equipment to increase their sense of satisfaction getting ready to hunt, hunting, and for whatever results they achieve.
My Dad asked me long ago, after an out-of-state bow hunt, "why take a bow when you take a gun (WY)". I told him that I wanted to milk as much fun and challenge out of the experience as I could. Nothing against the firearm or firearms hunters. I'm one of those as well, on certain critters at certain times.
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If legal I don't have a problem with it. I've hunted hogs over feeders in Florida and have really enjoyed it. As for deer it would depend on the place and the available food source.
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I hunt hogs over corn feeders(and spot and stalk, and still hunting). The deer don't come to the corn for some reason where I hunt in south Florida.In five years running trail cameras over corn I've only gotten two or three pics of deer but tens of thousands of pics of hogs and other animals.
Feeders are great for watching animals. I took my girlfriend and son with me last weekend they had a ball watching squirrels, raccoons, cardinals,songbirds, turkeys, and a bobcat!
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I never realized bobcats ate corn.... :bigsmyl:
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Originally posted by DanielB89:
I am curious as to many guys here hunt a non natural food source while hunting?
Hey Daniel, Have you got the answer you were looking for yet? :bigsmyl: :bigsmyl: :biglaugh:
I noticed you went a little quite???
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I'm not a fan, so I don't.
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Not legal in Va.-we can't use deer pee either since last season.
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Where I live in Central Texas if you don't hunt with feeders you will never see a deer.
Unless you figure out how to bowhunt from a helicopter.
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I love the guys that are anti feeder yet have 5 food plots on there land.
Kinda funny.
I don't hunt feeders for deer. Much prefer natural food sources like acorns.
Mike
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I have to agree with Russ. I hunt on about 30 acres. I have a highway on one side,and the other sides are thick cover. The deer stay in these other places,and the only way to draw them over is with a feeder.
When my buddy lets me walk the 600 acres I really love to spot and stalk,but for the people that say they would never use a feeder,I always say never say never you might not always have the perfect set up.
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I've seen areas in Texas where it looked to be an attractant of some type would be about the only answer. I know of lots of guys who have shot bears over bait.
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I tell the guys at work who do, that I haven't developed the hatred for the whitetail that they have. Like golf our sport has no referee and most of the time no one is watching. You have to do what is right in our minds. I won't do it but I also won't hunt with a crossbow, hunt over any bait, sit in a house type blind etc. I believe we owe it to the hunters coming behind us to be good stewards of our sport. We might come home empty handed but when we do connect the reward is much sweeter. I taught my son this way and I hope he passes it on.
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I've never seen a buck at a feeder in the daylight
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Originally posted by Bvas:
Originally posted by DanielB89:
I am curious as to many guys here hunt a non natural food source while hunting?
Hey Daniel, Have you got the answer you were looking for yet? :bigsmyl: :bigsmyl: :biglaugh:
I noticed you went a little quite??? [/b]
I believe I got my "answer" and then some. I always respect peoples OPINIONS, but also remember that they're just like butt holes and most of them stink ;) .
I do feel a need to express my stance on this issue.
Hunting a feeder is not my primary desire. Putting meat in my freezer IS! My family and I RELY on the meat we gain each year to get us through until the next year. As I stated in the OP, I do not have much time between work, family, church, to invest enough time throughout the week to have a spot scouted out for Saturdays, because Sunday's I will be in church.
For any break I have that is more than 1 day to hunt, I will be on public land chasing deer. But I feel that being successful on public land is more about what you do before the hunt than during the hunt, and I KNOW I just don't have time to put in the time necessary to be successful on public land when I only have one day.
I appreciate all the responses, and can see most of your opinions, whether I agree with them or not. But is does bother me that think so highly of their "ethics and opinions".
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I don't hunt bait personally but I set up tons of bait stands for my kids, wife l, friends etc. Nothing wrong with baiting and in many areas it's very very very hard to kill a deer without it. Trust me I know. I spend countless hours on stand each season to be able to fill a few tags without bait whie my friends and family come home each night talkong about all the deer they seen.
For those that do bait here are some cool tactics to make you more successful while hunting bait.
http://tbwpodcast.com/episode-188-reading-blood-and-baiting-tips-from-a-non-baiting-hunter/
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Not really "baiting", but what about those scent sticks that you just light and set out? Had a buddy tell me it worked really good for him last season.
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One of my concerns in things like this is the fuel I feel it gives to the anti-hunters. Maybe I'm off base. No matter what I'd never say anything about a guy feeding his family. With that being said I don't think I'd feel very good about a buck or any trophy animal going into B&C or P&Y being shot at a feeder. But as I stated earlier no one is usually watching and there are no referees.
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Originally posted by awbowman:
I've never seen a buck at a feeder in the daylight
Hmm, like this. Technically not a buck but a Sika stag. From a friend's property.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/reddogge/Hunting/113.jpg)
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Originally posted by awbowman:
I've never seen a buck at a feeder in the daylight
Sometimes they come in with the lady he is with.
(http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab241/katman111/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-10/ABAC2B0E-05A7-4C7C-92EF-FB82C490DDD2.jpg) (http://s868.photobucket.com/user/katman111/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-10/ABAC2B0E-05A7-4C7C-92EF-FB82C490DDD2.jpg.html) (http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab241/katman111/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-10/CB3EF0EB-7F3B-4453-A012-B07D2DAFE807.jpg) (http://s868.photobucket.com/user/katman111/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-10/CB3EF0EB-7F3B-4453-A012-B07D2DAFE807.jpg.html)
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My only concern is herd health, and in some areas there is so much food put out for deer in the fall that they are ill-prepared for winter foraging. The game biologists in every state in the US are sharp folks, trying to balance healthy game populations with the priorities of hunters, and I'm generally comfortable with their recommendations. Obviously SE states have far less winter starvation, so feeders are more likely to get a pass.
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Little danger of overpopulation where I live. The coyotes make sure of that.
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I have and will again.
It's a free country and the way you take game is a matter of taste and choice. I think it's great to have the opportunity to lease a place for extra opportunity.
I will use every advantage I can to harvest my deer.
Best of luck
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Actually, I think it's the deer that are unethical.
I've been trying to establish a number of no-till corn plots for years. My broadcast spreaders lay down the seed and the damn deer eat it all before any of it has a chance to germinate.
I have to admit, sometimes I get so frustrated I kill the buggers.
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i don't hunt feeders. Hunting over bait is illegal in Missouri, but, I wouldn't do it anyway.
In the late 80s I chose to use equipment that made harvesting game more challenging. For me, hunting over a feeder would fly in the face of the journey I set out on back then.
I do a little scouting now and then and try to focus my efforts on the latest food source. When oaks are dropping acorns at the rate they have been for the past two weeks, I doubt a feeder would provide much of an advantage anyway. Deer are pretty calm and content while scooping up pin oak acorns out of a dry ditch bed. They do get agitated at the raccoons that come down early to compete for the food though.
If the guy on the next farm chooses to hunt over a deer feeder with the latest greatest X-bow, compound, bean field rifle or with a Hill style longbow, so be it. I'm gonna do what makes me happy. I could care less about what he does and I'm sure not qualified to judge him.
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I think a lot has to do with where you have hunted the most. Here in Virginia it is illegal and very frowned upon. However 25 miles south in North Carolina it is legal and lots of people bait. I Hunt over oaks,peanuts,soybeans and other crops for deer. I have planted food plots but never had any intention of hunting over them. I can tell you this videos of hunts where the guys are hollering and hi fiving yelling into the camera "I just smoked him" that bothers me the most. It is if they hate the animal they just shot
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I'm with you on that Lineman. Absolutely no respect. Those shows are awful.
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I have a feeder out but try to hunt the trails leading to the feeder. It's no different that baiting bears.
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To me, it is vastly different than baiting bears. In most places where bear baiting is legal there is literally no other way to hunt them. There are very few places in the US where deer are hard to hunt. And honestly, if you are relying on deer meat to feed your family, you are far better off getting a part time job and not buying and filling feeders. And waaaaay better off not hunting with traditional archery gear.
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Etter, if you are relying on the deer meat to feed your family maybe you need to check into the part time job.
I answered the question and gave my opinion. And it is no different to me. It is legal here.
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I go to canada to hunt bears over bait but here in ga we have excellent ways of hunting them over natural food sources. It takes unbelievable work to hunt them in our mountains and I would be totally against baiting here.
I guess we all have our own morals, but if this cat truly needs to feed his family then Im ok with him shooting deer at night in the headlights. And I cant imagine choosing church over feeding a starving family.
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I kill several deer, bear, pigs, per year but I spend much more money in the pursuit of that meat than it is worth for my family. Id guess that is true of 99 percent of hunters in north america
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I put out corn , hunt acorns , food plots , fields and whatever is legal.
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I've always wanted to hunt bear. I'd live to have a bear rug but I can't bring myself to hunt over bait. It just doesn't set well with me. I hunted with a rifle once spot and stalk in Montana. I had a great time. I guess it's the only way I'd be able to pursue one. I guess for me it's more of the hunt than the kill.
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Have hunted hogs over feeders.
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Feeders are the way of hunting unless legislation ever changes them in Arkansas. My family and I own private land in Arkansas and I understand the ethical dilema all to well. I would love to hunt w/o feeders but with everyone around us using them if you don't feed yourself you soon don't have many deer. My best advice is that they are sometimes a necessary evil and that we can still be ethical hunters using feeders or not depending on how we use them and how we hunt over them.
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Reading all the replies to this thread has brought me to the realization how opinionated we can become concerning issues we feel passionate about. I am certain there are occasions I have been just as guilty.
I basically see it boils down to three primary thoughts, feelings, beliefs.
1. Any form of bating is taboo, wrong, and sinful, “unethical” and should never be engaged in.
2. Bating is ok for one species but again wrong, sinful, and “unethical” for another.
3. Bating where legal is a choice/right.
Let’s consider the first view. If we take the “purist” view or opinion that any form of bating is taking unfair advantage of the quarry in order to increase ones chances of scoring a successful kill, then we need to think about whether or not we take unfair advantage with camo clothing, attractants, tree stands, pop up blinds, game calls, rattling antlers, modern bows, deer drives, etc. etc. I would think if you are considered “unethical” using one advantage you would be “unethical” using any advantage.
Moving on to number two. Bating bears and feral hogs is generally acceptable and not considered “unethical”, well, with the exception of the “purist”. Hunting food plots or any other food source, including watering holes where critters are known to congregate I suppose should be “unethical” as well. And going on those expensive African Safaris that set up blinds at feeding stations and watering holes, that is really “unethical”.
Finally, some states do not allow bating and some do. If you bate in states that do not allow bating then you are violating the law. If you bate in states where it is against the law then my feeling is your integrity is flawed. In Texas bating has been lawful and even encouraged for over 50 years. Though there is some public land, by and large most of Texas is privately owned. In order to hunt in Texas you either have to know someone who has land and will allow you to hunt or you will have to pay a trespass fee to get on a hunting lease. Hunting in Texas is big business and hunting leases average between $1500 - $3500 depending on how good the lease is. Besides the trespass fee some leases will require a trophy feel also if you want to take what they consider a trophy. The leases are generally seasonal so you pay again every time hunting season rolls around. Most hunters would like to get a return on their investment so hunting feeders is encouraged.
My observation has been, those who have an abundance of public land with National Forest or heavy hardwood forests where bating has generally always been illegal, if not completely, at least in some degree hold closer to the “purist” view. Those where bating is legal and have little if any public land to hunt generally don’t have a problem with it.
What troubles me are the ones who without an understanding of the other’s situation get on their high horse and condemn. I think some of us can’t get out of our own way. With regards to traditional bow hunting, determining parameters as to what each of us allow within legal limits is a personal choice.
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Straightshot, yours was the only post I read in this thread, and I could not agree more! I have not posted in this thread up till now because I knew how it would go.
Bisch
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Louis,
Very enlightening and well written post. I would say I agree to yours the most. Thank you for your reply.
IF people in TX didn't feed, the game wouldn't survive. Its basically a target rich desert.
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X 2 what Bisch said. These kind of posts are a complete waste of time and energy imo.
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I'm not going to spend the amount of money it takes to keep one going.
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Here in CA, it's illegal. But I'd question the ethics of high-power spotting scopes to spot deer on distant ridges long before I'd question the ethics of bait. But to each their own. At least here, one is legal but questionable, in my opinion, while the other one is forbidden.
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Last time for me. I would never judge anyone other than myself. I said earlier we have no referee in our sport. Like golf I want to break 80. I never have. But to truly break 80 in my mind I have to putt every putt. No gimme's. That's how I feel about my hunting. I don't need the meat but if I did I take the game by any means. I'm just wired weird. I think I'm still 6 volt.
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I use feed with cam to see whats happening,but prefer to hunt natural feeding places.
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This is an interesting thread. I have an observation regarding ethics. That topic is very subjective, so we will never really have a consensus on what is or is not ethically acceptable. What one considers ethical may not be ethical to another, and that is okay as long as it is legal. No, I am not saying "legal" automatically translates into "ethical", but it does give a dividing line on what a court might deem allowable.
I personally don't care for baiting, except in the case of hogs. They are an invasive species that does tremendous damage to habitat and to the livlihood of other animals. Even though they are fun to hunt, my belief is they should be very heavily curtailed as an ecological matter, barbecued pork not withstanding.
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Living and hunting in Deep East Texas is a challenge all to itself. Thick stands of Pine and Hardwood timber with the thickest briars and yaupon you could imagine. I own my property and have access to the Angelina National Forest adjacent to my Southern Boundary. Unfortunately, we do not have definitive deer trails and the oak trees abound, so there is no particular area where you could ambush a deer, other than locating a pinch point. The above, coupled with the most jittery deer I have ever encountered will cause one to use any legal method to close the gap on your success.
Do I have feeders on my property; yes. Do I hunt them; yes. Have I been successful; yes. That being said, I have changed my strategy in recent years to include finding a strategic point located within sight of my feeder but not within shot distance. I throw out a little hand corn to stop the deer if they come my way but I have had little success thus far.
My belief is that if it is legal and you do not have reservations about hunting a feeder, then do so. However, if you do not believe it is ethical or reasonable, then don't. By all means though, respect other opinions than just yours.
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Lots of woods, especially big woods, are like that...not much in the way of definitive trails.
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Not legal here in NY. But that doesn't stop the feed stores from selling feeders, corn, blocks, tasty treats of all kinds. Somebody's using them--not me.
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Absolutely not. I do not see any sportsman ship in that style of hunting and could never be proud of a kill.
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http://library.nd.gov/statedocs/GameFish2/Baitfeedcommitteefinalreport140520100323.pdf
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So many misconceptions. It was far easier for me to kill deer on public land in the Northeast (PA/NJ). Without feeders than it would be on my private land in Oklahoma hunting over feeders. I would love to see them made illegal, then I would still do what I do now. Plant food plots and hope to find a hot oak tree, lol.
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Originally posted by pdk25:
[QB] So many misconceptions. It was far easier for me to kill deer on public land in the Northeast (PA/NJ). Without feeders than it would be on my private land in Oklahoma hunting over feeders.
A truer statement has not been made so far!
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Many interesting points of view have been posted.
I guess I'm with the "neutral" group, LOL!
However, I seem to get the impression that most of those opposed have never tried it.
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I've hunted all over, baited, fences, back country, as long as I felt good with it thats all I needed. I'm not sure how guys throw stones unless they have been around a bit?
NZ- Africa fences are ok?
Bears, Hogs bait is ok?
Man just do what makes you happy, and let others do what they like and is legal.
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At the end of the day, game departments have one goal, managing game numbers. They walk a tightrope between keeping numbers high enough to make hunters happy, low enough to keep animals healthy, within the carrying capacity of the land, and at a level where societal intrusion is acceptable.
Legal seasons, legal methods, and legal weapons are all geared toward those specific ends. They add and subtract all three based on what they need to accomplish.
Many who think that their chosen method is the only moral or ethical way to hunt deer (or any game animal for that matter), must also think that it would be moral and ethical to have massive overpopulation, rampant disease and habitat/property destruction. After all, that would be the result.
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Many ways to hunt. I choose, you choose, we all choose....(I know, don't scream).
I'm in the group that has little or no experience with baiting. However, there have been times I've found myself in "Rome". When in Rome I've done as the Romans do....I've had a blast baiting bears 4 times, and a hog/deer hunt in TX.
I don't mind admitting, when that TX feeder motor went off, I was startled but then got excited. Sort of like when the neighbor's pesky mutt starts baying when I'm on stand. I despise that beast chasing deer but I do get ready in case he chases something in front of me.
For a half-dozen years (late 70's early 80's) I turned down a DIY bear hunt in Ontario with good friends. I didn't think it would be any fun hunting something over a pile of doughnuts. I relented and went in 1984. It was so fun, almost like running a trapline, finding bait sites, baiting, checking baits and then putting up tree stands over active baits. Finding attractive baits, burning honey, burning bacon, stereo, a can of "Ten Dead Horses" (really!), etc.
Those first nights in stands after a bait was hit were very exciting. On the other hand, I could not imagine finding a bear in those wilderness brush areas or having one just happen to amble by.
Alas, DIY bear hunting became illegal a few years later and then spring bear baiting became illegal altogether. Thank goodness it is legal again. I'm hoping to go this coming spring, if my buddy who fell out of the tree 10 days ago recovers enough.
I'm with Sam on the hogs. They are destructive vermin that have, in many cases been illegally placed in the environment. If I could snap my fingers to rid the wild landscape of one creature, it would be a toss up....spiders or hogs.
In truth, I wouldn't snap those fingers because my plan sucks compared to His.
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Its unfortunate if the generation of hunters behind us think the only way to hunt is sitting over a pile of bait.
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From an ethical standpoint, because something is illegal doesn't necessarily mean that it's unethical.
Some things are a no brainer, like hunting deer at night.
We have a lot of laws that are legal but they may not all be ethical or morally correct as a law.
In some states hunting over corn is illegal but in some states it's illegal.
I have hunted over food plots ,rye grass, planted corn, ect. ,planted by man.
I will not condem a person for hunting
over bait where it's legal. Dont see how I could and not be a contradiction to my own ethics.