Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: mec lineman on December 19, 2016, 10:25:00 AM
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I'm 6' tall with broad shoulders and for years claimed to be drawing at least 28 when I hit anchor. With the arrival of my new Mohawk I've been playing around with different spines and arrow length. I took a yard stick and pressed against my sternum and with my finger tips touching straight out it read 26 3/4". I have always wondered how all these folks on here have these 29 and 30+" draw lengths. Makes since now as why my arrows are always on stiff side. Has anybody else been surprised to find out how short their natural draw length is?
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I'm 6'2' and have a draw length a fuzz under 27". I shoot a hill style longbow with a pronounced bent elbow. I also cant my bow quite a bit and lean into my shot like when shooting a shotgun.
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I'm used to be 5' 10" but aging knees have decreased that a little. I used to claim a 27" draw length, but the last few years as I dropped 10 lbs in draw weight and improved my form my draw length has actually increased to almost exactly 28". Now if I did the test like you and held it to my chest and held straight out to my fingertips I would measure 26". I think the difference is in form from one person to the other.
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I'm 5'11, wide enough in the shoulders and with fairly long arms. On a good day, I get 28 inches with a recurve, usually about an inch less with a straight gripped longbow.
Was a time when I thought my draw was longer. Then I had someone watch me shoot and measure it. Draw length is sort of like draw weight. The tendency is to overestimate each. :goldtooth:
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The yard stick on the chest gives me 28 1/2", I have a cedar arrow marked out in 1 inch increments and when nocked and drawn to anchor I get jus a shade over 29". I'm just and average guy and many question my draw length. I have had many say that no way can I draw 29", even when I had Chad Holms build me one of the many bows he has made me he doubted me......then checked and said, yep looks like 29"
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It is what it is, and it changes with every bow.
Depending upon where and how you anchor, whether you shoot with a bent bow arm or not, how wide (front to back) the bow grip is and maybe how you hold your tongue, it changes.
Using my RER, with relatively high wrist and stretched formal shooting I pull 30.5 pretty regularly. Using my ASL I pulled about 28.5 and with my new ASL with a handle about 3/8" less wide, you guessed it, closer to 28".
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Agree with Chuck C completely. That yardstick test will tell you how long one side of the triangle is which is formed by the yardstick, 1/2 of your chest and one of your arms.
It will be only a rough approximation of your actual draw length. That's a lot like resting the butt of a shotgun on your bent arm to measure your length of pull - often not even close.
It's no more difficult and far more accurate to draw to your anchor and have someone mark the arrow at the back (as opposed to belly) of the riser.
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Yea,put a clothespin on arrow and drew 28 with my recurve in 2005. I often try to stretch out my draw in back yard. But I think for me it all comes down to my natural draw when drawing on game. Thanks fellas
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It is rare to see anyone draw as long as they claim to. Lots of short drawing out there.
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I'm about 5' 10" and started with around 26.5" draw. With more strength and experience, I widened that out to about 27.5". Then I started getting more string slap on my clothing so I shortened that to about 27". Bow grip can shorten or lengthen my draw, as can shooting position. I hunt from the ground so I do a fair amount of shooting from a seated position (on the ground, bow canted only about 30 degrees from horizontal), which can also shorten my draw if I let it. A clicker has become one of my technological compromises to make sure I'm consistent from shot to shot. I've considered shortening my draw a bit more to make those seated shots that much easier. I've heard some people say that they have a natural draw check -- a point at which they can't draw any further. I feel like a draw length is something far more flexible -- more like a compromise between what you want (more speed) for what you need (more consistency).
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It's easy to short-draw and I work to ensure that I don't; as my shooting really suffers if I do. Part of my draw cycle includes feeling the arrow point, either field tip or broadhead, touching the knuckle of my index finger on my bow hand. My arrows are 29.5in long, I'm 5'11".
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Pavan clued me in on this. Standing on the ground, 28".
But shooting down, as in from a treestand,
Odd angles, etc not so much. I could not maintain a twenty eight inch draw length in all directions.
Do the clothes pin thing and try it from a variety of positions.
Far better to err on the weak side of spine, I think. Or an arrow that shoots well at an inch or so shorter draw.
I found that out the hard way this fall. I retrieved my buck, but was disappointed with my shooting.
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I'm 5'6" on a good day. With my T-rex arms and habit of short drawing I'm lucky to hit 24"
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I like the way a long time bowyer friend puts it...your draw length is whatever feels comfortable at the moment...if having a consistent draw length was important to me I would switch back to wheels
DDave
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6-2 With a 27 1/2 inch draw.Have guys at the shop all the time claiming 29 to 30.Had one 2 weeks ago,said he was a 29 inch draw.Gave him a measuring arrow and low and behold he was a 25 3/4 draw.
Terry
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Originally posted by mec lineman:
Yea,put a clothespin on arrow and drew 28 with my recurve in 2005. I often try to stretch out my draw in back yard. But I think for me it all comes down to my natural draw when drawing on game. Thanks fellas
This is a GREAT tip, and I learned it here on TG.
I take a spring clothespin, clip it about a foot from the tip of my arrow, and have it sticking out to the right side.
As I draw my bow, the clothespin hits the back of the riser, and then slides along the arrow until I reach full draw. Then I let off and measure the distance from the clothespin to the arrow nock slot to get an accurate draw length measurement. It's very easy and precise.
I have also taken this a step further: I use the clothes pin and a mirror to help me perfect my draw. I know that I can draw 28" or more, and if I start getting less then I know that my shooting frame is collapsing, or that I'm messing up somehow with my form. So I use the clothespin trick and stand in front of a mirror to see where my form is collapsing.
This works wonderfully, and has helped me lengthen my draw and make it more consistent.
I'm 5'7". When I started shooting trad about 5 months ago I could only get to a 27" draw if I struggled. My actual draw was more likely about 26.5". But since adopting this method of checking my frame when drawing (and learning how to set my back frame properly), I can now get to 28.5" at maximum, and 28" repeatedly, with both my 40 and 50 pound bows.
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I never tried it before but I just put a yard stick against my sternum and reached out with both hand's and checked the measurement to my finger tips. It was the same as when I have had someone observe when I draw back a graduated arrow, 29 inches. I have measured the same draw length this way with high wrist recurves and my Toelke Super D, I can't figure how some guys get such a big difference in draw length between different types of bows.
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After taking Mr.Rod Jenkins class I learned to get into my back and get full expansion, went from 28" draw to 29 1/2. No more hunched over curved back self taught style. I am 5'11" average build.
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6'2" and broad. I do shoot a 30" draw. That's measured with a check arrow and natural shooting conditions for me. It's actually about an inch short of my math measured draw. Most short drawing is from bad form. It's just that simple. This stuff isn't magic
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So you guys made me curious. I haven't done the clothes pin measurement in a while so I thought let's do it again. So I just did it and on 2 different longbows it measured 28 1/2" .
Either I've got long arms or some of you tall guys are really hunched up
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6'1, broad shoulders. 29" on ASL, usually closer to 29.5" with my r/d style bows, and a little over with higher wristed longbows. If I start to collapse shorter than that, I get alot more left and right fliers.
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I cant and I lean into my shot and draw 27". If I stand up straight and don't cant as much I can hit 28, but I shoot like crap and slap my arm. I've always practiced like I hunt therefore I'm happy with the 27
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Originally posted by Jim Wright:
I never tried it before but I just put a yard stick against my sternum and reached out with both hand's and checked the measurement to my finger tips. It was the same as when I have had someone observe when I draw back a graduated arrow, 29 inches. I have measured the same draw length this way with high wrist recurves and my Toelke Super D, I can't figure how some guys get such a big difference in draw length between different types of bows.
It is pretty simple. High wrist puts the deepest part of the grip further from your anchor point, which makes for a longer drawlength. Now of the shelf is shorter from back to belly, that will make a difference as well if you are using the clothespin method.
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And that sternum yardstick measurement will not work well for broad shouldered folks. The broader the shoulders, the shorter the measurements for a given a length. That is an inverse relationship, when the should be directly proportional.
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Idk about measuring DL in that manner, or how accurate it might be???? I measure DL using a marked DL arrow while I draw the bow. My DL is 29" on the dot.
Bisch
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Nobody that I shoot with has a draw length when shooting that is as much as they think. When you draw and arrow back to measure your draw it is always more draw then when you actually shoot an arrow. That is my observation.
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I've had many customers in the shop and I've measured their draw with a marked stick. Then I had them actually shoot with arrows of known length. I watch to see how much arrow is sticking out the front of the bow. Almost always their actual draw length while shooting is less then their pulled draw weight. Now a days I don't even bother with the marked arrow. We just go shoot right off the bat.
I would be hesitant to trust the clothes pin trick. Just shoot 6 arrows the same length and have someone watch to see how much arrow is sticking out. Measure it and you will have your true draw length.
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Yep. Producer and Holm-made are right on. Folks tend to overdraw when they're checking their draw length with a clothes pin or marked arrow. When they're not thinking about it and just shooting, the draw often shortens perceptibly.
Jim: As Pdk notes, if you shoot with a high wrist regardless of the grip style, your draw length won't vary, at least not very much. But, if you shoot a recurve high or medium wrist and try a straight grip longbow and shoot it low wrist, your draw will shorten considerably.
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I do the clothespin thing. I have a fish arrow set up for that very thing.
Before I do any of that though I make sure I'm fully drawn without overdrawn. To do that requires a look see at a straight line from the grip, through the anchor, past the elbow. The elbow must be slightly in front of that line less than an inch, or the back won't be engaged to "trigger" the release.
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Good discussion :campfire:
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Long story but I had to switch to shooting right handed. I could not shoot RH the same way I shot left handed. My LH draw length was about 29 1/2in Ended up with more of a target archery shot and a draw length of 31 1/2in. I'm 6'1". I shoot wood so now I need longer shafts. Been messin with reparrows.
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29 1/4" draw and yardstick here, I'm 6'2 5/8". Gotta laugh at some of these guys
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I measured my draw length again the other day as I was curious if I could trim my arrows a little. It measured 29 3/4 with the clothes pin. Shooting with a buddy, he commented that I am pulling almost the entire length of my arrows which are cut at 30 1/4. I know that I draw a bit more on a mid forty pound bow and probably short draw a little on the heavier bows. I am just not ready to cut my arrows any shorter with that being the case.
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5'9" and my draw is 26.5 Now this is when I am totally concentrating on full expansion and shooting level. Knowing that this is rarely the case when hunting and knowing that my form is often less than perfect, I bareshaft arrows to show a touch weak and once fletched it makes up for a lot of my inconsistencies in draw length. I would bet that most of the time when I'm not actually trying to measure it it falls more between 26 and 26.25".
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Consistency of form. That is what is more important than draw length. If your form is consistent, your draw length will also be consistent and you can determine the correct arrow length and then get the correct arrow spine for that arrow length for your bow.
Draw length is just a number that we use to achieve a result. Longer is not necessarily better. :) :)
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Bow handles can make a big difference a full handle recurve with a wide sight window can give you an inch or more over a small locator grip on a longbow.
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I am another one of the T-Rex archers. I am 5'9" tall and only pull 25". I shoot Hill bows with considerable bend in my bow arm. This short draw, with my preference for 29" long arrows, makes for some interesting tuning.
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I'm 5'-10". Just got back from the gym so I'm a little stiff but I can just touch 28". So that method isn't even close to being accurate for me.
I have a 31"+ draw length. Measured and re measured dozens of times. But there isn't anything funny about it. For 20 years I have been struggling with arrow length, spine charts and arrow weight. Some of the best arrow choices are too short or can't be cut to tune. Wood arrows are pretty hard to find. Bows tend to need extra fussing to keep quiet, string slap can be an issue, brace heights are critical, shooting problems are magnified and string pinch requires shopping for the right bows. I'd love to hunt with a Kodiak Mag. I'd like to shoot my 66 kodiak but it stacks hard after 28". Self bows need to be pretty long to hold up.
My current bow is 63lb@31". My arrows for hunting this year were cut at 31.5" and every once in a while I would bump a broadhead on the riser.
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6'7" 38" sleeves, and easily draw 32". I crunch a bit, and end up at 30 1/2". I envy you guys drawing 27-28".
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My draw length is less than what I think... I always think 29 but it's really 29.85. ;)
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I'm 5'8" and I draw @28-3/4. I see it all the time with guys that have short draw lengths. If you open up more and pull through the shot you will gain more draw length. I just taught this to a friend and he went from 25- 28 inches just by having proper form.
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I'll throw in too... I'm 6'0", and draw 31". I measure quite regularly, and carry a bare shift with a zip tie around it (to mark the length when I draw) in my back quiver. I was taught from the beginning to fully expand when drawing, and not hunch. My dad was 5'9" and drew 29", my brother is 6'2" and draws 32.5". Maybe we just have long arms, but I also think it has a lot to do with technique. When my draw shortens up, is because I'm collapsing before release, and I have to watch out for that.
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30" for me.... Was questioned and looked at funny when I had some arrows cut at a local shop. The employee handed me a measuring arrow and said "Lets just make sure", while smiling. I smiled back and said, "Don't trust me, huh?". He watched me draw and come to anchor, "Well, I guess you're right!". I am only 6'1" but have a long torso and broad chest and shoulders. I agree that there is no magic formula and everyone is different.
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I'm 6'1" but have a 28" draw. For me, I can draw to 30" comfortably but I don't get a good anchor point / sight picture view. I see quite a few guys that pull 30" but their form is crazy...i.e. really leaning back, or pushing their head back, or an anchor point at their ear, etc. I shoot so much better with a compact draw and a better sight window picture and alignment.
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I went from 27" AMO to 31" AMO by dropping down in draw weight and working on my form. I was overbowed and never fully engaged my back because I shot so quickly. It's been worth it though, as the longer draw and lighter bow combo has been perfect for filling the freezer every year!
I'm a hair over 6' with longer arms and a lanky build. The ruler to the chest thing was never accurate for me, and even using the clothespin test varied. I would still under draw when I got tired, and I would carry that same under expansion over to lighter bows, too. It wasn't until I started working on the bale with a light bow that it began to change, but it took a while because I was stubborn and only went down a few pounds at a time. Oh well!
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Originally posted by J. Cook:
I'm 6'1" but have a 28" draw. For me, I can draw to 30" comfortably but I don't get a good anchor point / sight picture view. I see quite a few guys that pull 30" but their form is crazy...i.e. really leaning back, or pushing their head back, or an anchor point at their ear, etc. I shoot so much better with a compact draw and a better sight window picture and alignment.
This is me exactly. I'm 6'4" and have fairly long arms. I've measured different ways and usually show around 30" draw. I get the best sight picture,and release with 27.75" I thought I was drawing a full 28" but it's not quite,and I have my arrows cut to 28 now so it's easy to tell if I'm short drawing. As said above I could never figure out what was going on when I was shooting bad,but I would be way behind the string with head back and could never get a good release. I guess everybody is different and it is probably different with every bow,but I do good drawing a little less than I could.
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I'm 6' and have fairly long arms, about a 76 inch wing span. When I shot wheels I had a 32 inch draw with the anchor I had for the trigger. I draw around 29-29.5 trad and probably less from a tree.
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In my opinion, the reality is most people without some serious coaching never reach their full draw potential either due to bad form or being overbowed or a combination of the two. I'm 5'11" with a measured 31" draw and good form, my wife is 5'8" and a 29" measured draw. And we can still bend over and shoot under tree limbs etc. Well I can she has some arthritis issues. Bend at the waist shooting downhill and keep your upper body fixed and your draw length shouldn't change.
Edit: have to say though that me and the better half do have longer arms than average, not quite Gorillas in the Mist long, but pretty long!
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At the risk of making a "Form Post" instead of answering the poster's question:
The three methods I'm aware of:
1. Ruler on sternum.
2. Wingspan (Wingspan in inches, minus 15, and divide by 2).
3. Actual: Draw and mark arrow at back of bow or clothespin or arrow mark.
I'm 5'5. (used to be a LOT taller when I was a teenager - 5'6").
1. Ruler on Sternum: 24.5" draw
2. Wingspan: 25" draw (65-15 divide by 2)
3. Actual: 26" (clothespin).
I use Actual because I have visually checked that I am properly extended to be able to engage my back in the shot. If under drawn I can't engage the back. If overdrawn the back is too engaged.
So when I'm at full draw my index finger is at the corner of ny mouth. My thumb knuckle is behind my jawbone, and most importantly, I can feel my rhomboid muscle in the draw side shoulder blade engaged. to release I budge the rhomboid a bit further and drop the string.
Why does it (back) matter? Avoidance of target panic.
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I always thought I was drawing 28 inches, but when I ordered a new bow from black widow they measured my draw and I was getting a full 29".
I'm only 5'10''.
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just cut a piece of cardboard a couple inches wide and stick your arrow thru it and slide down towards fletching. now draw back the string so the cardboard hits the back of riser and slides on arrow indicating your REAL draw length, now do this while sitting, standing, turned sideways, ect and see how its always a little different.
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Be careful, if you want an accurate measurement, with the clothespin or cardboard on the arrow method. I like this method best too but you have to note if the riser shape stops the pin or cardboard before it touches the exact spot where the arrow projects from the bow back. Could make you think your draw length is 1/2" longer.
Someone standing BESIDE the bow to make a mark on a full draw arrow at this bow back/arrow interface is quite accurate as well.
I've never tried this, only just now thinking about it. If you taped a marker to the back of the bow that just touched the shaft of the arrow. You could draw the arrow and see where the mark stopped. That would be where you'd measure the draw length.
Of course someone will now make a simple contraption to mount such a marker and they'll be rich and I'll continue raiding my wife's purse to fill my coin jar until it gets to $160 again (in two years).
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The yardstick test gives me 27.5". My actual draw length (checked many times over the last 20+ years) is 30.5-31, depending on the grip.
Learning to draw the bow properly--standing up straight, using back tension--will generally add to most.
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I have had people stand beside me and mark the point on the arrow at the back of the bow, and I have used the bow with the measuring arrow to determine that I draw a whopping 25".
When I first took up archery, with a recurve, I determined I drew 27", but it is 25" when using a slightly bent arm with the longbow.
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Draw length also depends on your anchor point, how much bend you have in your bow arm, and even the shape of your riser.
With my longbow I'm drawing about 27 1/2" with my recurve I was drawing about an inch more.
If I were to draw my bow without a middle finger at corner of mouth anchor I could easily stretch out to 30" which I have done in the past.
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I am 5' 9" and shrinking, I can have a 31 inch draw, but it hurts a little. I pull the string back and hook the string on my ear and then just hold onto that ear until I am on target, then smoothly let my ear slip from my fingers. This also cures TP.
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:notworthy:
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I'm 5'8" and just a little feller, but Craig can testify I've got a 29" draw. I also think it has a lot to do with form and shooting style. :archer2:
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My draw length increased an inch after taking a Rod Jenkins class. I thought I knew what back tension was untilI I took the class.
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The yard stick in the chest is way off for me. The wingspan -15/2 is close. One thing I know for absolute certain is that an arrow that is 29" to the back of the broad head is way too short for me. I missed a nice fat pig early this year because I mistakenly put a too short arrow in my quiver (early morning, no coffee, running late). Drew on a chunky little sow only to have the broad head hit the riser an pull the arrow completely off the string.
A few years ago, after a lively discussion on here, I experimented with some shorter arrows. Even down to a 27 bop. Let's just say that I'm happy shooting the way I do, and I'm not changing up just to fit someone else's mold. I could see changing it I couldn't hit a barn, but I can usually hit were I want at reasonable distances.
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With a 26" draw I cut my arrows 27 or 27.5" depending upon the broadhead weight I want to shoot.
I don't like much arrow "sticking out" the back of the bow and I certainly don't want to touch the riser with the broadhead.
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Changing grips and stance has brought me down from 32.5" to about 30". I should note that I am 6' 4".
I'm shooting way better now than I did five years ago with that extra long draw. I'd drop to 29" if I could get a little more consistency and accuracy in exchange :)
Thom
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If your using the yardstick, repeat it three or four times, but close your eyes and average the results. Some individuals have a more open stance and bent elbow and their style forms a triangle and noticeably greater string clearance between the bowarm and string.
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Hi,
5.7' here (1.75 meter).
DL = 28 precisely after 20 years practice. Started at 27.
++M
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Originally posted by LBR:
The yardstick test gives me 27.5". My actual draw length (checked many times over the last 20+ years) is 30.5-31, depending on the grip.
Learning to draw the bow properly--standing up straight, using back tension--will generally add to most.
Yep, that comment is right on, as far as I'm concerned.
I also gained draw due to changing my anchor point reference after I had eye surgery to lose the glasses years ago. My reference is the first knuckle of my thumb under the point of my jaw... that puts me a good inch longer than "index finger in the corner of the mouth". I'm 5'6", but pretty broad across the shoulders.... and with good form, and that anchor, I draw a true 29-29.5 depending on the riser and how high the wrist is cut.
R
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I make arrows for a number of people. I have had all but one person stretch his real draw length. I put up a two section ladder stand in the backyard and have them shoot a few marked arrows and make sure that they are at anchor. I put the marks where I can see them and they cannot, I pressure them by having them shoot at a deer target and tell them to aim hard with a good anchor. I have yet to see anyone shoot with a draw that is longer than what their normal body size and arm span would indicate from that shot angle and some are shorter than that.
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Good point Pavan
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hmmm...makes me think, pavan, that most folks aren't keeping a good archers T. I use my index finger touching the back edge of the brass insert as a 'draw check'.
a lot of people don't realize how much you have to bend at the waist to keep the T shooting elevated.
I'm 5'7" and have a hair under 28" draw.