Trad Gang
Topic Archives => How To - Resources => Topic started by: Rob DiStefano on January 31, 2011, 10:21:00 PM
-
crafting excellent woodies - the easy way
this pictorial will show me making up a dozen woodies using basic tools and materials, and including a basic primer on arrow fletching.
there are lots of good ways to build wood arrows - this is just my most favorite method.
can't skimp on the wood, it pays to buy premium shafting. surewood douglas fir is my fave - very strong and straight from the get-go. these 11/32" shafts are a full 32" in length, are 55/60# spined and in a 390 to 400 grain weight range.
unlike carbs, where there is a large dynamic spine range (35-55, 55-75, etc), woodies have narrow spine ranges and they are very sensitive to how you shoot. there is no substitute for trying a range of spines and making a selection based on personal performance.
for newbies getting their feet wet in woodie building, my strong advice is to get a test pack of surewood doug fir woods in either 6 spine ranges of 2 shafts each, or 4 spine ranges of 3 shafts each. make up one bare and one fletched arrow for each spine, test them with yer bows. also have on hand different point weights, say from 125 to 200 grains (or more), then using hot melt glue you can swap out point weights to weaken or stiffen the arrow spine. all this testing is gonna make matching woodies to yer bow SO much easier, and get great flying arrows ... promise!
surewood doug fir test paks from braveheart archery (http://www.braveheartarchery.us/new_page_26.htm)
whatever wood you buy, it would make sense to insure they're as straight as can be before working on them. i roll each shaft on a flat surface (corian kitchen counter top) and if there is a high side, i'll hit it with high heat from a hair dryer or low heat from a paint stripper heat gun and compress that high side using either the rounded shaft of a screwdriver, or a hook (big eye screw screwed in a piece of 1" dowel) or my fave, the groove section of a steel guitar slide ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/steel.jpg)
curt "guru" has an excellent how-to article on wood shaft straightening. (http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000060)
for each shaft, mark the grain orientation with a pencil - that is, noting one side that has vertical grain when looking at the end of the shaft. it's the vertical grain that needs to touch the side plate of the arrow shelf because that's where the shaft is spined and strongest. either end of the vertical grain will do. no spine meter required.
either end of the shaft could be for the nock or point. if the shaft has 'run out', where you can see a grain 'feathering' on one or more sides of the shaft, orient the shaft so that these 'feather(s)' point *toward* the nock end ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/wxx.jpg)
get yerself a shaft tapering tool. a cheap 'pencil sharpener' type will get the job done just fine. this one i'm using is a more expensive bear paw tapering tool, but it doesn't do any better a job than a cheap plastic one. i also use a tapering guide for my disc sander - they're easy to make and work well, too.
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w3.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w4.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w5.jpg)
get a slat of wood about 32" or so long. tap in a finishing nail at one end. about 8" or so down from the nail make a mark on the wood. if you want to cap the arrow, use this mark as a reference point to lay down a layer of painter's masking tape (1/2" to 1" width) to separate the cap area from the foreshaft. the arrow nock is NOT glued on - just stuck on so that you can get an accurate cap/crest area mark. note that this is entirely optional. here's how that's done ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w6.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w7.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w8.jpg)
-
this next step is also optional - coloring the cap and foreshaft - you could do one, or the other, or as i'll be doing, both. rather than get into paints and dip tubes and sprays, let's do it the easy and good looking way - wood stains. use whatever type and color stains you like. i like using water based aniline dye stains and here i'll do the cap in a light amber and the foreshaft in a darkish walnut. since this is a wipe on process, you'll need at least one rubber glove, either kitchen or surgical types. oh, do use 100% white cotton (t shirt) for the wiping 'pad', 2" to 3" square is fine. and use a separate pad for each color! the pictures tell the story ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w9.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w10.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w11.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w12.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w13.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w14.jpg)
there are any number of ways to allow the wet stained shafts to dry, here i'm using a block of polyethylene foam to push in the last 1.5" of shaft ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w15.jpg)
i'll let these dry off for a few hours and then on to the next part of the finishing step!
-
Awesome Rob ... its how I do mine , but I have never thought of the block of wood / nail to hold nocks ... What an ace idea !
Cheers
B
-
So far so good and looking great. Absorbing ideas as you go. :thumbsup:
-
Rob,
For once I can't believe my timing. I just received my first wood shafts, Douglas fir from Surewood Shafts, in the mail today. Can't wait to follow you progression!
-
real nice Rob :thumbsup:
-
I have already seen some good inputs!!You never finish to learn something.
-
Nice!
I have a great appreciation for those of you who have the patience to build an arrow.
God bless,Mudd
-
This is great! Timing couldn't be better given that I intend to start building my own arrows soon. Thanks for doing this pictorial.
-
please note some additional clarifying text to the first two posts - they're in bold. part two - clear coats - coming later today.
-
;) Dang, that sure looks good, great info and step by step. :thumbsup:
-
Nice Work Rob looking forward to the rest
i miss making up a nice set of wood arrows!
-
Real nice Rob!
Excellent detail...I will look for this thread in a few months....can't wait!!
-
Nice job, I just have to try that,
-
Rob you should make a book on all these tip's that you share with the Trad Gang family, you could call it Rob's book of tip's for the working Man.
-
:thumbsup:
-
remember, the staining of the shafts is *optional* and not at all needed. the other 6 shafts of this dozen surewoods are gonna just get clear coated, no staining at all. fir takes clear well, and will kinda mute down and darken the raw wood color to a nice parchment-like hue after a few wipes of nothing more than clear.
unless you stain the entire shaft, one needs to be a tad careful when clear coating not to bleed the stain from one part of the shaft to the other. i'll be using three cotton wipe pads again, one for the unstained shafts, one for the amber stain of the cap, and the last for the walnut stained foreshaft - don't mix them up or you'll get color bleeds!
first step is to *lightly* steel wool buff all the shafts, both the stained and not stained. i use the ultra fine 0000 steel wool, and cut each pad in half as a full pad is overkill and you get to stretch the wool use. i use one side of a half pad to buff the amber cap, and the other side of that same half pad to buff the walnut foreshaft - don't mix them up! after wooling, use a paper towel to lightly rub down either the entire unstained shafts, or use separate towels for each color stained area of the stained shafts (again, so the stains don't bleed).
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w16.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w17.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w18.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w19.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w20.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w21.jpg)
next up, the clear coats ...
-
If I may offer one suggestion...when orientating the grain and your nock...allign not ONLY so the grain is sideways as Rob suggests, but also notice any run out of grain. The best shafts are going to have straight grain, but almost all wood shafts will have some run out creating "arrow points" in the grain on one side. Allign the shaft so these run outs are on the top and pointing forward. This way should a shaft fail along the grain while shooting it, the bottom will point backwards and be less likely to go into your bowhand.
If that is not clear, let me know and I can illustrate it...or maybe Rob will get to that later.
-
Originally posted by Protege Longbows:
If I may offer one suggestion...when orientating the grain and your nock...allign not ONLY so the grain is sideways as Rob suggests, but also notice any run out of grain. The best shafts are going to have straight grain, but almost all wood shafts will have some run out creating "arrow points" in the grain on one side. Allign the shaft so these run outs are on the top and pointing forward. This way should a shaft fail along the grain while shooting it, the bottom will point backwards and be less likely to go into your bowhand.
If that is not clear, let me know and I can illustrate it...or maybe Rob will get to that later.
yes, that will be covered during the nock installation.
-
Well I'm now highly motivated. I just got word my first ever Douglas fir shafts are in transit. New material to play with. (Ramin didn't do it for me a few years back).
Plow ahead so I can follow in your wake, Rob. :thumbsup:
-
Good job Rob! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
-
very nice, good idea using the painting tape.
Thanks
-
:thumbsup: keep it up. this is and will be very helpful for future arrow builders :thumbsup:
-
Thank you Rob! I plan on trying some surewoods out real soon. This is very helpful!
-
Thanks for the post...as soon as I finish my carbons I'm going to give woodies a try...Thanks
-
Future Arrow Whisperer here, Thanks for the post!♠
-
Number 2 pencil is sharpened and ready for class. :thumbsup:
-
i'll do the clear wipes on the unstained shafts first. put on yer rubber glove(s) a clean 2" to 3" square of 100% white cotton t-shirt, fold over to make a pad, shake the can of min-wax gloss wipe on polyu, pop the top and get the pad wet (not damp and not dripping wet), hold the shaft at where the pointed end will eventually be, wrap the pad a bit around the shaft and twist and wipe from the nock end on down.
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w22.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w23.jpg)
you don't need to wipe right down to the very end of the shaft, unless you require a full 32" arrow. wipe to within 2" to 3" of the end of the shaft (for up to a 30" long arrow). hold the freshly wiped shaft by the nock end, push into the foam block for drying. i do this with just one glove for the wiping hand.
for the stained shafts - hold at the cap end, wipe the foreshaft first and don't go beyond the masking tape! when done, push each shaft into the foam block. when all shafts have had their foreshafts wiped with clear, get a fresh new wiping pad, and clear wipe the cap area of the shaft while the shaft is held in the foam block. too easy! allow to dry for a few hours.
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w24.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w25.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w26.jpg)
after the clear dries, *lightly* buff each shaft with 0000 steel wool - use a separate piece of steel wool for each stain color! lightly rub each shaft with a paper towel - use a separate towel for each stain color!
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w27.jpg)
do another clear coat wipe again, as in all of the above.
after the second wipe dries, for the stained shafts, remove the masking tape that separates the cap from the foreshaft. lightly steel wool buff the entire shaft, from nock end to point end - no need to be concerned about color bleeding - and lightly paper towel rub down. notice how the stain colors deepen and look more vibrant as more clear coats are applied. i loved stained arrows as opposed to opaque painted ones - i just prefer to see the natural wood grain.
do a third wiped on coat of clear.
three coats of min-wax clear is more than enuf to fully seal the shafts. i usually go for a fourth coat. your choice to either leave the last coat glossy or buff down with the steel wool and paper towel for a muted satin finish.
after i'm done with all four coats of clear, next up - glue on the nocks, cut the shafts to your proper draw length, taper for the points, add cresting using sharpie pens (optional). then on to fletching - we'll do all three flavors of fletches - store bought preshaped, chopped, and burnt - in both three and four fletch configurations. ALL fletches will be adhered with bohning fletch tape! then on to pointing up, checking for shaft/point trueness/straightness.
-
I love the grain on the Surewoods. Great follow along Rob.
-
yep, and those darker stains really pop out a grainy wood like fir.
-
Thanks for posting this. I would've never thought of using a block of styrofoam. Does sticking them into the foam take off some of the stain at the ends? Where do you get this aniline dye and how long does it take to dry?
I made my first batch a little over a month ago and hung them to dry on a clothesline using clothes pins. I guess I brushed on too much of the minwax poly stain/sealant with a brush, because they were dripping all over the ground.
-
Originally posted by Ed Q:
Thanks for posting this. I would've never thought of using a block of styrofoam. Does sticking them into the foam take off some of the stain at the ends?
probably. don't matter. remember, all finishing is done with full 32" length shafts! i'm gonna whack off over 2" for my 29.5" final length arras.
Where do you get this aniline dye and how long does it take to dry?
i get the aniline dye stain in powder from www.reranch.com (http://www.reranch.com) - my primary, almost daily use is in staining guitar wood. it can be mixed with either water or alcohol but i prefer water as wiping it on (as opposed to airbrushing it on - i do that, too) blends it all in better.
I made my first batch a little over a month ago and hung them to dry on a clothesline using clothes pins.
i also have a 36 pin clothespin drying rack in my shop, but a block of any kinda stiff foam is much easier to use - you always want the drying shaft kept with nock up and pointed end down, to allow any running of finish towards the pointy end.
I guess I brushed on too much of the minwax poly stain/sealant with a brush, because they were dripping all over the ground.
don't use a brush for any kinda finish on arrow shafting - either wipe or dip. i used to dip and made arrows far too pretty to fly, but wiping is so much easier, faster, cheaper and pretty darn good lookin', too!
-
Rob, Thank you for a great Tutorial, with new ideas and instruction that is A1. Your pictures and explanations are great and you are helping a lot of us out here. I look forward to the rest of your instruction. Looks like there will be a lot more woodies in our quivers this year! Thanks again!
-
TTT for a very good tutorial.
-
very nice for some simple shafts..
-
Thanks Rob I to intend to start on some woodies
-
This is definitely bookmark worthy stuff. Thanks for taking the time to post this.
-
third coat of clear administered this morning. fourth coat goes on tonite. will be ready for the next part of the process tomorrow. :)
-
Thanks again for the info, Rob.
-
This should prolly be a sticky.
-
Excellent Rob!
Thank you for taking us along :thumbsup:
Margly
-
Let us know your secrets for ensuring perfect nock and broadhead alignment !
-
Originally posted by Dave Earley:
Let us know your secrets for ensuring perfect nock and broadhead alignment !
there really are no secrets.
first, make sure the shaft is as true as can be by rolling on a dead flat surface (i use a corian kitchen counter). any high points need to be heated (hair dryer or heat gun) and compressed (screwdriver, hook, or my fave - a dunlop 925 steel guitar slide, using the finger groove on the shaft).
cut good tapers for both the nock and point.
push on the nock and rotate/spin the shaft to see of the nock is true. if so, glue on the nock... if not, adjust the nock taper (sand very little at a time) until it pushes on and spins true, then glue it on permanently.
push on the point and spin the shaft on the point. adjust as above until the shaft spins true on the point. hot melt glue in place.
woodies are so much more work than carbs or alums. :D
-
Really nice Rob,this will help out alot of people.
-
Great info.Thanks Rob. I hope that this makes it way to the how to section.
-
Just bought four shafts and nocks. I start tonight!
I'm building arrows for the "Arrow if Light" Award.
Do you have any advise for a blue stain? I was thinking yellow feathers and a white nock. I have walnut stain for the front portion and plan on cresting the transition in Boy Scout red with green pinstripe.
Thanks for the inspiration!
Martin
-
Originally posted by mmisciag:
Just bought four shafts and nocks. I start tonight!
I'm building arrows for the "Arrow if Light" Award.
Do you have any advise for a blue stain? I was thinking yellow feathers and a white nock. I have walnut stain for the front portion and plan on cresting the transition in Boy Scout red with green pinstripe.
Thanks for the inspiration!
Martin
way cool, have fun.
i just checked, 3rivers has a nice assortment of stains for $5.40/each and they're water based ....
(http://i.imgur.com/Kdd3miM.jpg)
-
Out of band, you and I are gonna need to talk about guitars.
Thanks!
Martin
-
I have always been a dip person until recently then I began to spray. ( To much waste ) This is GREAT STUFF Rob!!!! Can't wait to see more......
Thanks
-
Rob,
Great job on this fantastic tutorial. I'm sure this will get archived.
Thank you...
-
I can attest to the water-based dye Three River's sells. It's Fiebing's Leather Dye and works very well.
Here's the yellow (one wipe) and also their pecan alcohol based stain.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v169/Stumpkiller/Bowhunting/HPIM1978-1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v169/Stumpkiller/Bowhunting/HPIM1975-1.jpg)
-
Rob,
Cool! I never knew a guy could effectively straighten wood shafts. Too easy! :thumbsup:
-
Rob,
Great post, but I have never found crafting woodies to be cheap (in time) or easy (labor intensive). :)
Straightening the shafts is absolutely paramount to the "good". This is also where the saying you can't make a silk purse out of sow's ear comes to mind.
Have you had trouble with the poly coating sticking in targets and get all mucked up? I have noticed this with 3-d and bale type targets. It is like the heat from the friction melts the poly as it is penetrating.
I like to use a mixture of acetone and two ton epoxy for the final coating. Must apply in well ventilated area and wear gloves. But the finish is hard and very durable. 3:1 ratio works for yeoman shafts in 2-3 coats. A 6:1 results in a thinner mixture but takes more coats to apply, and results in a nicer finish.
I have recovered lost arrows in my canyon after being exposed to the elements. The poly seems to peel easier while the epoxy finsh is very tough and holds up better.
-
Dang Rob you make it look so easy!! Nice job!
-
Originally posted by CRS:
Rob,
Great post, but I have never found crafting woodies to be cheap (in time) or easy (labor intensive). :)
i like to think that my method is the easiest and bestest of all the methods out there, yet still produce a good lookin', durable arrow :D
Straightening the shafts is absolutely paramount to the "good". This is also where the saying you can't make a silk purse out of sow's ear comes to mind.
earlier today i added a segment to the 1st post on straightening wood
Have you had trouble with the poly coating sticking in targets and get all mucked up?
nope, not at all
I have noticed this with 3-d and bale type targets. It is like the heat from the friction melts the poly as it is penetrating.
yes, i've heard that can occur
I like to use a mixture of acetone and two ton epoxy for the final coating.
yep, the 'massey finish'
Must apply in well ventilated area and wear gloves. But the finish is hard and very durable. 3:1 ratio works for yeoman shafts in 2-3 coats. A 6:1 results in a thinner mixture but takes more coats to apply, and results in a nicer finish.
I have recovered lost arrows in my canyon after being exposed to the elements. The poly seems to peel easier while the epoxy finsh is very tough and holds up better.
the diluted epoxy finish is best, but not for everyone to use ... and one must consider that the roving/hunting lifespan of a woodie is less than a carb or alum. min-wax wipe-on polyu is still the easiest, fastest woodie clear coat, and it's quite durable. imo. ymmv. :)
-
Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
Originally posted by CRS:
Rob,
Great post, but I have never found crafting woodies to be cheap (in time) or easy (labor intensive). :)
i like to think that my method is the easiest and bestest of all the methods out there, yet still produce a good lookin', durable arrow :D
Straightening the shafts is absolutely paramount to the "good". This is also where the saying you can't make a silk purse out of sow's ear comes to mind.
earlier today i added a segment to the 1st post on straightening wood
Have you had trouble with the poly coating sticking in targets and get all mucked up?
nope, not at all
I have noticed this with 3-d and bale type targets. It is like the heat from the friction melts the poly as it is penetrating.
yes, i've heard that can occur
I like to use a mixture of acetone and two ton epoxy for the final coating.
yep, the 'massey finish'
Must apply in well ventilated area and wear gloves. But the finish is hard and very durable. 3:1 ratio works for yeoman shafts in 2-3 coats. A 6:1 results in a thinner mixture but takes more coats to apply, and results in a nicer finish.
I have recovered lost arrows in my canyon after being exposed to the elements. The poly seems to peel easier while the epoxy finsh is very tough and holds up better.
the diluted SLOW SET epoxy finish is best, but not for everyone to use ... and one must consider that the roving/hunting lifespan of a woodie is less than a carb or alum. min-wax wipe-on polyu is still the easiest, fastest woodie clear coat, and it's quite durable. imo. ymmv. :)
-
fourth and final wipe of clear on all 12 shafts, cured nicely overnight.
stained and cleared, cleared only, raw wood - shown so you can see the color differences ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w28.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w29.jpg)
... you can see that clear alone will mute the brightness of raw wood.
push a nock onto one of the shafts (don't glue!), set the nock into the finishing nail of yer shaft/arrow sizing jig ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w30.jpg)
... and mark at the length to cut the shaft down to arrow size. you want to make that mark at 3/4" more than the final length of each arrow. i want these woodies to be 29-1/4" long, so i made a pencil mark at 30" ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w31.jpg)
... mark up for each shaft first. then cut the shaft right at the mark, either by rolling a knife on the cut line mark and scoring deeply before snapping off the excess, or cut off with a saw blade ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w32.jpg)
add the point taper ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/w33.jpg)
after all the shafts have been point tapered, i like to put some finish/sealer on the freshly cut point tapers. either some clear polyu, or duco cement. or, as i just did, by wicking in some water thin cya (CYAnocrylate super glue) - this seals and hardens the point taper at the same time.
next up - fletching! :thumbsup:
-
great job rob. where did you get that bearpaw tapertool. at least i think its a bear paw. i cant seem to find the new ones like that anywhere.
steven
-
bearpaw taper tool from kustom king.
-
Gotta love this site. Rob I do die some shafts, but the cresting is where I always mess it up. I have used paint, markers, sharpies and so far either the ink has ran or lines not straight. Alway's something wrong with my crest. All that just to say I am watching you. Thanks for shorting my learning curve on many things dealing with a stick bow.
-
i use 'magic markers' for cresting - chisel point sharpie pens are my faves, along with a pentel silver pen. this is fast, easy and good looking crest. the downside (you knew that was coming!) is that i have yet to find a clear coat that won't bleed the marker colors. so, i leave the cresting as is, and it will wear a fine line where it contacts the shelf almost immediately. no big deal for me.
if you want cresting that will take some punishment and last, the answer is to use a resin based paint (lacquer, acrylic, enamel, etc) and then spray clear coats over to seal. this requires a few small pots of opaque paint colors and appropriate thinner and compatible spray clear, and a few good sable cresting brushes. been there, done that, don't need the added expense and time. i'll stick with sharpie cresting and live with the 'wear line'. :cool:
-
I had the same issue with Testors paints smearing so a couple quick sprays with a spray-on poly work very well without smearing if you spray quick, thin layers.
-
i did the testing - so be aware that clear coat light spraying of lacquer or polyu or acrylic on marking pen cresting will NOT work - the ink will run and bleed.
-
Rob, Thank you for taking the time to post this tutorial . This is a great help. Can't wait to see the rest.
-
Rob If you did a light primer like Binz first would that help them soak in and dry.Maybe that craft stuff thats white (day capoge I think) for craft work.Any wax based items available for this.Or maybe thinned out clear nail polish top coat? Now you have me in search
-
Originally posted by lpcjon2:
Rob If you did a light primer like Binz first would that help them soak in and dry.Maybe that craft stuff thats white (day capoge I think) for craft work.Any wax based items available for this.Or maybe thinned out clear nail polish top coat? Now you have me in search
i have not found any clear coats that won't dissolve marking pen ink, no matter what pen ink is used or how the surface of the shaft is prepped. if you want to clear coat it, cresting must be resin based.
-
I like using the touch up paints from Pep Boys.It comes in some great looking colors and will hold under any clear coat. It comes in small bottles so you don't have to buy it in pints,quarts etc. :thumbsup:
-
I put my crest on after the sealing (Sharpie & Pilot permanent markers over MinWax Poly).
I found wiping on the polyurethane removed the Pilot metallic ink.
Holds up so far.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v169/Stumpkiller/Bowhunting/HPIM1990.jpg)
Just received my first batch of 24 Douglas fir shafts (Surewoods). They look beautiful, clear and straight, and all spined within two pounds of each other! Don't smell as nice as cedar but I'm impressed so far. :thumbsup: I was surprised the 11/32" fir weighs (exactly) the same as my 23/64" cedar raw shafts. 420 grains. They're lighter than I thought they would be - but that's OK as they'll make up at around 580 to 590 grains. Nice moderate weight.
-
One layer of scotch tape will protect the sharpie crest.
-
Originally posted by 3arrows:
One layer of scotch tape will protect the sharpie crest.
been there, done that, didn't like it. also tried a piece of clear arrow wrap. prefer to just leave 'em be.
-
Rob,
What are you using to spin the aras for cresting? Also what in your est. would a dz aras cost to make up your way, using the supplies you used for yours? Thanks
-
Originally posted by South MS Bowhunter:
Rob,
What are you using to spin the aras for cresting?
low-tech and works just fine - electric screwdriver with a surge tubing coupler :cool:
Also what in your est. would a dz aras cost to make up your way, using the supplies you used for yours? Thanks
how much it costs to make up woodies, or any arrow type, is totally dependent on the scale economies and your aspirations for making your own arrows. the real value comes with volume.
making up one dozen of any kinda arrows means an investment in some tooling, at the least a fletching jig and some glue.
woodies will require the addition of a simple nock/point tapering tool, and some wipe-on finish at the least.
now add in the shafts, points, nocks and pre-cut feathers.
price out the above components for an idea of what it costs to build a dozen woodies. it's easy to understand that the real value comes in building more than a dozen arrows, that and the satisfaction of doing it yourself.
-
Rob, does the watered down cya make the sharpie run to?
-
Originally posted by lpcjon2:
Rob, does the watered down cya make the sharpie run to?
yes.
not 'watered down cya', it's water thin viscosity cya.
-
Rob will you be showing your "low tech" tools when you get to cresting and the fletching?
-
Originally posted by South MS Bowhunter:
Rob will you be showing your "low tech" tools when you get to cresting and the fletching?
absolutely! why not? coming up real soon to a computer in your neighborhood!
-
ok, time for cresting and fletching - or is it the other way around? which to do first? imo, doesn't matter, but as you work on woodies, one or the other might take preference. i'm gonna do the fletching first, cresting last.
all fletches will be adhered with bohning fletch tape, followed by a dot of duco cement on each end of the feather, not so much to hold down the fletch at those critical points, but to smoothly transition the quill base to the shaft.
there's also the nocking and pointing to consider as well. one could pressure fit a nock for fletching and then glue on the nock afterwards to get a precise alignment with the feathers.
typically, a fletching jig's nock receiver is set and locked in position for the type of offset or helical for a particular length of feather. change one of those two parameters and the nock might not align with the fletching as you'd like after the fletching is adhered to the shaft. now, this isn't an issue at all with carbons since [a] carbons are 360 degree uniformly spined, and a twist of the carbon's nock makes for instant realignment. not so with woodies as they are not 360 degree uniformly spined! if you glue on the nock, better make sure the taped or glued feathers will align properly. and if the nock needs to be rotated, don't rotate it so much as to miss the sweet stiff spine spot.
i'm gonna use two relatively 'cheap' polycarb fletching jigs - an old martin j8 and a rather new bohning bpe. the j8 will be used to do a four fletch, li'l chopper chopped 4.6" banana left wing processed trueflights, 75x105 configuration with slight 1 degree offset. the bpe will do up a three fletch, young burnt 5.25" gray barred trueflights in a custom shield configuration with lots of left wing helical. both of these jigs have been used quite a lot and each is set up to fletch the arrangements just described. to change those settings, to use the j8 for helical 3 fletch and bpe for offset 4 fletch would mean taking the time to set up each for their new fletch configuration use. which is one reason to have a fletch jig set up for a style and type of fletch and shaft, and changed.
here's a gaggle of just chopped 4.6" yellow banana fletches, and 5.2" sections of full length gray barred fletches that are prepared for fletching and young feather burning.
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/wf1.jpg)
more tomorrow morning, as i fletch up the first arrow ...
-
banana 4 fletch
using a modified lil chopper banana high profile feather chopper (a new base plate was made from 1/8" plywood, in order to shorten the fletch length, and reduce the height), place the feather into the jig and hold it with a few fingers. notice that i prefer to chop feathers with the 'concave' side of the feather up ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/wf2.jpg)
holding onto the feather, use yer other hand to lower the chopping blade and hold firmly enough so the feather won't move ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/wf2b.jpg)
give the blade block a good, sharp whack with a mallet or hammer ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/wf3.jpg)
as mentioned b4, the nock can be pushed on for a friction fit during fletching and then aligned and glued later, or glued on first - i choose to glue on first because my jig's nock receiver is well set up for an offset 4 fletch.
after wiping down the cap area of the shaft (where the fletches go) with naphtha (lighter fluid) on a paper towel to remove any finger oil, i've placed a fletch into the fletch jig's clamp, and i'm doing a 'test run' to make sure the fletch quill will position itself properly on the shaft and that it's the proper distance from the nock.
you will need to spend a bit of time and effort to tweak the clamp so that the fletch lies well on the shaft. with a straight fletch clamp, it is either set dead straight (not recommended), slightly offset in the direction of the fletch (i.e. - left wing feathers are offset to the left side). if a helical clamp is used, take extra care in making *sure* that the entire base quill of the fletch makes contact with the shaft. if you don't get the fletch quill to lie dead against the shaft, you will have problems. this matters for using either fletch tape or glue - so make this an important priority!
when it all looks good, mark the clamp with sharpie pen where the back end of the feather goes, for consistency (i used a black pen mark for this fletch type) ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/wf4.jpg)
when all looks right, remove the clamp (with feather attached) and at this point i typically will wipe down the quill base with naphtha on a piece of paper towel to remove any lingering finger oil, line up the fletching tape with the quill base and lay it down ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/wf5a.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/wf5b.jpg)
with sharp scissors, snip off the tape at both ends of the fletch, close to the quill ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/wf5c.jpg)
run a finger down the length of the fletch tape, pressing fairly hard - do it again to be sure ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/wf5d.jpg)
-
use an xacto or knife blade to lift up the fletch tape protective film, then pull off ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/wf6.jpg)
place the clamp onto the jig's magnet, get the jig lined up in the proper position, and keep it away from the shaft ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/wf7.jpg)
push down the clamp onto the shaft, press *firmly* ... press *firmly* again, to make sure ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/wf8.jpg)
squeeze the clamp and remove from the feather ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/wf8a.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/wf8b.jpg)
turn the jig's nock receiver, rotating the shaft towards you, and attach the next feather in the same fashion ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/wf9.jpg)
when all the feathers are attached, remove the arrow (hey, NOW it's an ARROW and not a shaft!) and *firmly* press down the full length of the feather from front to back - i do it right on the feather barbs, press them right down to the quill, won't hurt them at all, but if it bothers you to press down on the barbs then just press down on the quill side edge with yer finger nail ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/wf10.jpg)
and finally, a dot of glue at each end of the fletches ..
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/wf12.jpg)
-
first woodie banana 4-fletch done ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/wf13.jpg)
... fletch up the next 5 shafts with 'naners!
-
Very Nice Rob
-
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
-
cresting with sharpies
to mark the same cresting location on each arrow, lay down on your arrow measuring tool and mark the meauring tool where you would like the crest to start and end, then transfer those marks to each arrow ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/c1.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/c2.jpg)
the diy "cresting machine". simply an electric screwdriver (set so that the rotation of the arrow is away from you), with a piece of 3/8" surgical tubing over the screwdriver phillip's head bit and over the arrow nock that acts as a "transmission coupler". make up a "V" block cradle for the arrow out of wood or foam or whatever - even a "V" notch in a piece of folded cardboard works quite well. i fancied this one up a bit with an extended piece of 1/8" ply "guide" store predetermined cresting marks, but since we used the arrow measuring tool to precisely lay out where the cresting starts and ends on the shaft, this is not necessary.
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/c3.jpg)
i'll begin laying down a crest background main color using an orange chisel point sharpie, sweeping from the left crest pencil mark (on the shaft) and ending over at the right crest pencil mark (on the shaft) ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/c5.jpg)
there is no "drying time" required, so i switch over to the black chisel marker to lay down the margin stripes ... i freehand added a center stripe, with stripes to the left and right of it ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/c7.jpg)
now i'll add the silver highlight lines - this really makes a crest look great and imo is mandatory ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/c9.jpg)
i also added a tiny crest between the nock and fletches, using the same colors and scheme, just done freehand with no guide ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/c10.jpg)
all done - not worthy of an arrow contest, but looks great (to me) and makes a bland arrow look kinda nifty ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/c11.jpg)
-
Very nicely done, Rob. If you put a second application of the sharpie on do you gain anything in the depth of color?
-
Cool stuff Rob... Keeps a fellow busy on those "can't get out of the house" kinda days...
-
Originally posted by Green:
Very nicely done, Rob. If you put a second application of the sharpie on do you gain anything in the depth of color?
yes, definitely darkens the hue.
-
Dang I thought i was the only one that crested with sharpies...must be a Jersey thing :thumbsup:
-
Very nice Rob
-
Thank you Rob for this great tutorial! And thanks for really breaking it down step by step. I'm excited to soon try my first batch of arrows, and this thread will go a long way in helping me achieve that.
-
Very nice!
-
Rob,
Have you tried or heard of someone using Birchwood-Casey's Tru-oil as a finish over stain?
I like to use it for refinishing gun stocks. It goes on easily by hand and cures to a nice hard finish.
-
This has been very informative. I learned a lot. Thank you. :thumbsup:
-
Rob, nicely done.
My wife viewed the thread and said why did'nt I think of that 50 years ago. Would have avoided our clashes of the mess and smells. LOL I told her they did not have sharpies then.
I have always been a dip kind of guy, crown, crest and sealant that is for arrows. But after seeing your cleaner, cheaper and appears easier way, who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Thanks!
Earl
-
Originally posted by bowslinger:
Rob,
Have you tried or heard of someone using Birchwood-Casey's Tru-oil as a finish over stain?
I like to use it for refinishing gun stocks. It goes on easily by hand and cures to a nice hard finish.
i use tru-oil extensively in guitar making, and it works just fine for arrow making, too!
it's really a toss-up 'tween min-wax wipe-on or tru-oil ... the min-wax is much easier to find at home depot or lowes. they both do a yeoman job for woodie finishing. :thumbsup:
-
INSPIRING:
:notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
-
That looks like something that would be fun to try.
As far as cost, would it be a cost effective altervative to aluminum or carbon?
-
Great post Rob !!!
Thank you
:coffee:
-
Originally posted by JamesJamison:
... As far as cost, would it be a cost effective altervative to aluminum or carbon?
woodies are a labor of love.
since finishing, and possibly straightening, is always part of woodie crafting, there is more expense and time involved than making carbons or alums.
i love woodies and will always build and shoot them ... but without a doubt, carbons are the most durable, and consistent with regards to both accuracy and climate, and easiest to craft arrows of all shafting material readily available today.
-
Thank you Rob.
Excellent tutorial and great looking arrows.
Makes me want to get some shafts ordered and try my hand at it.
Looks like a call to one of the sponsors is in order.
-
Great tutorial! Thanks for all the info.
:notworthy:
-
Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
Originally posted by bowslinger:
Rob,
Have you tried or heard of someone using Birchwood-Casey's Tru-oil as a finish over stain?
I like to use it for refinishing gun stocks. It goes on easily by hand and cures to a nice hard finish.
i use tru-oil extensively in guitar making, and it works just fine for arrow making, too!
it's really a toss-up 'tween min-wax wipe-on or tru-oil ... the min-wax is much easier to find at home depot or lowes. they both do a yeoman job for woodie finishing. :thumbsup: [/b]
I use tru-oil on my ash shafts. I have found poly tends to lay on top of the hardwoods and can haze up and peel if exposed to moisture. The tru-oil soaks into the wood and seems to be more durable. Ash will tend to un-straighten itself if not sealed well.
-
That is awesome.
-
up next - how i fletch for feather burning. i'll do a classic 3 fletch helical shield burnt cut.
-
Rob:
Have you ever tried "Lin-speed" I like it better than tru Oil as it will take a thinning of terps and still perform the same.
-
lin-speed, oh yeah. spent years with that stuff, it works well, too. best part is that it can be 'refreshed' by thinning.
-
I love working with wood. This seems like a lot of fun.
-
burning feathers
i've sharpie crested the remaining 6 woodies, and even did an under-fletch crest. i'll be fletching up with trueflight graybarred turks and burning them to shape after they're on the shafts. the 3 fletches for each arrow will be 5-1/4" long and i've created a 'fat' hi-back shield shape in a new nichrome burning wire for the young burner. i'll be using a cheap bohning fletching jig with a left wing helical clamp. as always, feathers will be stuck on with bohning fletch tape.
first, cut cut down a buncha full length trueflights to 5-1/4" lengths. i like to angle the front of the quill back towards the nock end ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/f1.jpg)
... and the back of the quill towards the point end - these angles make for a better transition of the quill to the shaft.
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/f2.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/f3.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/f4.jpg)
this part is the same as i did for the 4-fletch banana fletching - put a shaft into the fletching jig, feather into the clamp - note there's a mark on the clamp where the back of the fletch lines up with, put tape on the quill base, remove the tape's plastic backing, and the clamp onto the jig, press down *firmly* and then do it again ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/f5.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/f6.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/f7.jpg)
-
do the same for the remaining two fletches - pull off the clamp, rotate the jig for the next feather, put a new fletch into the clamp ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/f8.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/f9.jpg)
when all fletched up, pull out the arrow and snip off the rear of the feathers with a scissor to make it easier for feather burning ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/f10.jpg)
whether it's a new wire shape or an old one, always check the the wire with a bare shaft of the type yer about to fletch, to make sure the wire is just barely away from the shaft, then load in a feathered shaft ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/f11.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/f12.jpg)
my feather burn connects to an on/off momentary footswitch, so i tap and hold the footswitch as the wire heats up and when it just starts to glow orange-red i carefully rotate the shaft to trim all three feathers, and the remove weight on the switch to stop the wire heating up, and remove the arrow ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/f13.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/f14.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/f15.jpg)
-
a 3 pack of burnt feather woodies with fat helical fletchings ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/f16.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/f17.jpg)
-
Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
Originally posted by JamesJamison:
... As far as cost, would it be a cost effective altervative to aluminum or carbon?
woodies are a labor of love.
since finishing, and possibly straightening, is always part of woodie crafting, there is more expense and time involved than making carbons or alums.
i love woodies and will always build and shoot them ... but without a doubt, carbons are the most durable, and consistent with regards to both accuracy and climate, and easiest to craft arrows of all shafting material readily available today. [/b]
The thought of making my own arrows, sure sounds appealing, but I was curious, how the cost of making them from wood compares to buying finished arrows of carbon and aluminum. The last dozen of alum. cost me around 75.00 if I remeber right.
I am waiting on my first trad bow to arrive in a few weeks, and after a season or two of shooting and hunting, I would also love to attempt to build my own self bow, and wooden arrows just seem to be natural. Maybe I just dream to big,
-
Originally posted by JamesJamison:
[... I am waiting on my first trad bow to arrive in a few weeks, and after a season or two of shooting and hunting, I would also love to attempt to build my own self bow, and wooden arrows just seem to be natural. Maybe I just dream to big,
without our dreams we are automaton creatures living out the dreams of others. be thankful for your dreams. :)
-
After following this thread,I'm kinda embarassed how much I spent setting up to build woodies.LOL.Thanks for your efforts,gonna try this way soon.BTW,who's a good source for the surewoods?Thanks again.
-
I LOVE WOODEN ARROWS!!! :clapper: Them and the Wooden, Spring Loaded, "1 Billion and One Uses" Clothespins!! Ah, Life Is Good!! :clapper: Well Done Sir!! :clapper:
-
i'm not sure if other trad gang sponsors offer surewoods, but i get mine from tim @ braveheart archery (http://www.braveheartarchery.us/new_page_26.htm)
-
Woodamon, Braveheart is definately a great place to buy the Surewoods. My experience from buying other items from Braveheart is they have very quick service. But you can also buy shafts directly from Surewood Shafts.
-
Great instructual post Rob.
I really appreciate your efforts in sharing your experience/knowledge.
Larry
-
another 3 pack of burnt feather woodies with fat helical fletchings hot off the burner not 10 minutes ago ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/f19.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/f18.jpg)
-
Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
a 3 pack of burnt feather woodies with fat helical fletchings ...
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/f16.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/woodies/f17.jpg)
OUTSTANDING Rob , I like um :thumbsup:
-
Thanks gentlemen,looked at the site for Braveheart.Think I'll order a dozen.So the Bohning fletch tape is compatible with any finish?Thanks again...
-
Originally posted by wooddamon1:
....So the Bohning fletch tape is compatible with any finish?Thanks again...
absolutely.
-
Nice.Thanks,Rob!
-
Very nice!
I really like the looks of that green crest.
-
Rob great tutorial. :thumbsup:
One question, what have you found is the best method for shaping the ribbon on the feather burner.
-
I have spent years building woodies for myself, friends and customers and there is a bunch of stuff in this thread that would have made my life much easier !
Good stuff Rob...really good stuff.
Gonna try that fletch tape too!
-
Originally posted by Walt Francis:
... One question, what have you found is the best method for shaping the ribbon on the feather burner.
i used to use 1/8" plywood bending templates, but these dayze i just shape the ribbon by eye and hand, and careful bending with the fingers. i always do a test run using a test shaft of the same diameter as the shafts i'll be fletching for real. if the wire needs tweaking, i just strip off the feathers, clean with naphtha, refletch, try again.
-
What did you use for staning the back portion of that one set red? Is that a wood stain as well or are you using Rit or something else?
-
Originally posted by R.V.T.B.:
What did you use for staning the back portion of that one set red? Is that a wood stain as well or are you using Rit or something else?
all the stains i use are aniline dye powder mixed with water. in this case, red.
-
Forgive a newbie question, but what is the difference between chopping feathers to size and burning them? Why would you do one over the other?
-
Originally posted by Acoupstick:
Forgive a newbie question, but what is the difference between chopping feathers to size and burning them? Why would you do one over the other?
chopping feathers into fletches requires a feather chopper that typically costs $20. you can't vary the fletch shape, but you can slightly tweak it shorter for both length and height. feathers are chopped into fletches before they are added to the shaft. there is a sharp noise factor from whacking the blade block of the chopper!
burning feathers into fletches requires a feather burner that typically costs $120. the fletch shape can be pretty much whatever you can dream up by shaping the burning wire. feathers are first added to the shaft, then burnt to shape afterwards. there is a huge stink factor with burning fletches ... HUGE stink!
neither method of creating fletches is better or worse, they're just different.
-
One other BIG difference between chopping and burning feathers...SMELL!!!! Burning turkey feathers gives off a smell that one WILL NOT soon forget. :eek: Great job Mr.D.! :clapper:
-
oh yeah, gotta add in the olfactory acoustic factors!
-
Rob, can you help me figure out what spine i'd need?
Osage selfbow (not cut to center)
60 lbs @ 29"
You may need more information than this...let me know! Thanks, I look forward to getting started.
-
Originally posted by Balding Kansan:
Rob, can you help me figure out what spine i'd need?
Osage selfbow (not cut to center)
60 lbs @ 29"
You may need more information than this...let me know! Thanks, I look forward to getting started.
imo, woods are more critical of spine than carbons.
i'd suggest getting a 4 or 6 spine range doug fir test pak from www.surewoodshafts.com, (http://www.surewoodshafts.com,) make up one bare shaft and one full fletched arrow for each spine, each using the feathers and points yer gonna shoot, and see what works best for ya. also try different point weights out. bracket yer bow's holding weight at least one range below and above, two would be best.
this is the most positive way to match up a bow to a woodie ... and to you and yer shooting form.
-
Great Rob, Enjoyed this Alot!!!!
I hope you plan on placing this in the How To Resources. Good info to fall back on time and time again.....
-
WOW-There are LOTS of GOOD threads on this site but THIS HAS TO BE ONE OF THE BEST EVER...is there a Archive section??? EXCELLENT POST
-
Originally posted by Larry m:
Great thread Rob
I hope you plan on placing this in the How To Resources. Good info to fall back on time and time again.....
yessir, will archive this thread.
in the long run, a video would be best. i'll eventually try to do one for woodies, and a much better one for endless string spinning.
-
I ordered my test kit today! Thanks Rob for all the time and effort that went into putting together such a great tutorial!!
-
beautiful arrows, and great tutorial.
Thank you for your time.