Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: HumbleHunter on January 31, 2007, 11:59:00 AM
-
Howdy guys,
This is my first attempt of putting a video out here so, please forgive me if it's totally screwed up. This is my form video, now for you experienced Trads, SHREAD IT!!!! Thanks guys! HH
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r133/HumbleHunter/th_formvid1-1.jpg) (http://s143.photobucket.com/albums/r133/HumbleHunter/?action=view¤t=formvid1-1.flv)
LOL I was very fashionable too....I had just came in from walking a couple miles and the yard was muddy so, I threw on my boots lol.........just peachy :knothead:
-
I suppose there is something wrong with your form but for me I hope my form looks that consistant and steady.
-
Looks dang dandy to me......raise the target up about 3 feet and video again......I'd like to see your shoulders and arrow shaft parallel to the ground on the shot.
And, if possible, get an overhead view.
-
Good looking form. It looks like you might be torqueing the string just a tiny bit....your wrist/hand look to be at a slight angle and your elbow down just a touch from alignment with the arrow .
-
Yeah Joe, that's why I wanted to see him shoot parallel. There a reason that elbow is down a bit (or looks to be)....but I'll compare the two clips and expound more when he posts the parallel clip.
Good eye on the string hand Joe!!!...it does look as though he's 'rotating bottom out' at anchor.
-
Thanks guys, I sure appreciate yall taking a look at it.
Mr. Green, I don't think I can get an over head view, if I can I will though. I will raise the target and video again. Thanks for asking me to!
I actually took some video of bow hand and string hand zoomed way in on my hands that I'm going to look at.
Mr. Joe
Sometimes it feels like I'm torquing something but, couldn't pinpoint it. I sure appreciate it!
Mr. Dean,
Thanks for the compliment!
You guys have a good day, HH
-
MR. JOE!!!
I just came in from shooting and I WAS torquing my hand. I watched my video over and over and then went and tried keeping my hand from torquing and WOW did my groups improve!!!!! BOOYA! I've been having problems with what I THOUGHT to be getting my eye over the arrow, didn't seem to matter what I did I wasn't aligned right. WELL after your discovery about my string hand, my eye and arrow are lined up. My first few groups of three were awesome (at least for me lol)Then I started toying with it just to notice how much difference it makes. That's awesome, I sure appreciate it!
Have a great one,HH
-
Also a little string wax on those field points on the screw end will keep them from unscrewing.
-
Please clarify for on interested viewer as the picture quality is not that good on my computer. When you talk about torquing the string hand, are you talking about the string hand not being in line with the bowstring? so he needs to rotate his drawing elbow up to align them?
Thanks
-
No, not his elbow.....watch his wrist twist his hand out from the bottom.....he's putting a 'kink' in the string when it should be in a straight line.
-
So it is corrected by twisting the wrist in to align it
-
Not really.....its 'prevented' by not twisting the wrist out.
Make sense?
-
Dillon, reserve the "Mr." for my Pap, I'm jest plain ol "Joe" or "JC" or "Hey you" :biglaugh:
Glad to hear you were able to see an improvement, that's the name of the game. Keep at it, I know I learn something about everytime I shoot.
Blaine, it's important to keep the fingers in alignment with the string, on all axes if possible. Meaning not only is the "bend" of the wrist important, so is the "rotation". To explain my point better, grab the string as if you were going to draw....put just a bit of tension....now look at your elbow/forearm position. This should be in as perfect a straight line as possible. Furthermore, the straighter the line is through the entire shot, the better you will shoot, in my opinion (physics: an object in motion tends to stay in motion etc....it's harder to change the course from crooked to straight than to just keep it going straight to begin with...body mechanics adhere to the same laws) Now, keep all fingers on the string and point your elbow to the ground. That exaggerated bend in your wrist is a bigger version of what some guys have trouble with on what I call the horizontal axis....from the tip of the arrow to the tip of the elbow should be a nice pretty line at full draw. You can mess that line up both with the wrist, either by putting uneven pressure on the string or elbow high/low/to the side (which actually is effecting the wrist position since your forearm has no joint).
Grip the string again with your perfect horizontal line....now hold your drawing arm still and cant the bow dramatically...but don't bend or twist your wrist. You can see how this can easily cause uneven finger pressure, release issues etc. Twist your wrist to match the cant and now you have eliminated the torque. Your grip should line up with the string from every angle...at least for best results in my experience.
I agree with Terry's comment in another form post; video, from multiple angles, can really help you make dramatic improvements to your shooting. Little tiny pieces, put together, can make a big difference in your accuracy. Video is a great way to see those things that might be missed with the naked eye.
-
How about it HH?........need the other clips.
-
I will try tomorrow Mr. Green to get the other clips, tough for someone else to have the time to record me shooting.
Have a great day, HH
-
Set the camera on a stool...mash record...walk around and shoot. :D
-
okie dokie, got the new clip. NO OVERHEAD though couldn't get that one worked out. My camera was getting cold and started screwing up so, forgive the glitches.
Here it is:
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r133/HumbleHunter/th_formvid7.jpg) (http://s143.photobucket.com/albums/r133/HumbleHunter/?action=view¤t=formvid7.flv)
-
Dillon, your bow arm looks much better, it looked very steady throughout and after the shot. Your release hand looks much more relaxed, however it looks like you still might not be following through enough with back tension on the drawing arm. Elbow height is also getting very close to perfectly in line. It looks like you are bringing your head down to anchor slightly instead of bringing the anchor to your head. Do the pause/play rapidly and you can see it in stop motion.
If you can get over head or other angles it would help get the nuances of anything else you are doing.
But so far, how does it feel and have you seen an improvement in final product....where the arrows are hitting?
-
Great!!!!...that's just what I thought....your elbow was low in the original because of you not bending at the waist. When you shoot at a steep angle and don't bend at the waist, you get yourself out of alignment.....look at this 1st diagram...you are shooting low but not bending at the waist, your body(spine & head) are almost vertical, and to make the low shot you only lowered your bow arm which dropped your drawing elbow to compensate to hold on target.
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/anglepic.JPG)
Now, look at your new clip alignment...you are making the magic 'T'...and to carry that 'T' with you, just bend at the waist on low shots like the 2nd diagram above.
ALSO....watch your clip again...notice that your bow hand goes straight to the target at release AND your elbow is going straight back. :thumbsup:
-
Hey Joe,
In this video I wasn't nearly as smooth feeling as the other video. Part of that might be due to it being around 29 degrees out side and part of that might be due because last night I worked out and I'm alittle stiff and sore this morning. I did several sets and I just couldn't get loose.
Back tension is a issue sometimes for me to get. Plus this bow is only 40 at 28 so, my shoulders don't get tired very quick even if I'm doing it wrong. My question about back tension is how do you set good back tension and not have alot of movement to the rear with your string arm?
I will check out the videos again and look at how I move my head. I noticed Ron LaClair really moves his head kinda up and over it seems. But it doesn't look like he moves his head toward the target.
I had pretty good groups even in this video but, they weren't as tight as the last. I can still see marked improvement though. I've only been shooting trad for about 4 months and I can tell great differences then when I started. I doubt I'll ever go back to Compounds. Trad is so much for fun and flexible.
Joe, I sure do appreciate you taking the time to help a newbie out, THANKS! HH
-
HEY Mr. GREEN!
I guess we posted almost the same time. I'm glad that looks better as far as making the magic T. Bend at the waist, I will work on it! Thank you! I did have a question about back tension in my last post.
Have a great day, HH
-
Dillon, I couldn't carry Ron LaClair's quiver so I ain't bout to give him any shootin tips! ;)
I've said most guys will develop their style and they will, given the right raw material, become great shooters over time with that unique style. You have to take some from each style and find what works for you. It may be you can shoot accurately moving your head, but if not, certainly try "not" moving it. Over time, you will adjust each specific body mechanic of your shot and find what works best for you. It's my hope I can point you in the path of "the majority" which will get most folks, but not necessarily all, shooting well. Think of your head as the top of that "t"...many folks find it easier to be consistent by not moving the head.
It's okay to have the rearward movement of the elbow, in fact it's encouraged. But it should be straight back, not up or down. Imagine pulling with your elbow instead of your hand...your hand is simply a hook. When you release, if you have full pull back tension, your elbow will go back...but straight back. You're definately getting there, it looks like you may be holding back on your follow through. When we say back tension, we aren't necessarily talking about trying to keep the muscles "tense" but continuing to pull with the elbow throughout the shot and especially after the shot in follow through.
-
LOL Joe I like the "I couldn't carry Ron LaClair's quiver" ahahahaha NICE
Okay, that makes sense now to me about back tension, thanks man I appreciate it.
HH
-
Yeah, it can help to hook on to the string with a deep hook, and relax the hand as you draw. Like the hand part is just a string between the wrist and hooked fingers. That pulls it all straight as you draw with back muscles.
The less cupping, rigidity, flex, (all torguers) you introduce, the straighter the line.
GH
-
That makes alot of sense GroundHunter, thanks for the info!
Have a great day, HH
-
HH,
Have you tried putting your head where is set at release before you draw?
-
No I haven't, come to think about it. I will try that next time I shoot, tomorrow hopefully.
Thanks Mr. Green, HH
-
Bend at the waist, cant the bow more, stop grabbing the bow, point with the wrist, tuck the bottom 2 fingers, use an armguard, Have fun.
Sorry - straight and to the point right?
-
Hold the bow like it's a baby bird..I pretty much hold it with my thumb and index finger,the other fingers just kind of stabilize it. Every once in a while I even hit the target. :campfire:
-
You got some good tips here on form that was already pretty good. Nice steady bow arm IMO as well.