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Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: adirondack46r on June 30, 2007, 07:56:00 PM
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First time I've taken a video of my shooting. I see a couple of things that need work. Critique welcome but be kind, I cry easily.
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa142/adirondack46r/th_100_0527.jpg) (http://s197.photobucket.com/albums/aa142/adirondack46r/?action=view¤t=100_0527.flv)
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Your shoulders look nice and square like they are supposed to, but it appears that you are not coming to the same anchor point each time.. it also looks like you are plucking your release instead of just letting the string slide off your fingers...
After the release you hand should just slide across your cheek to the back of your head... it appears that you are just plucking your fingers open and then coming back..
If you slow down your shot at the moment of coming to your anchor point and allow your back muscles to continue to pull and you push and let your fingers slide off the string, you should get better consistency...
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Tom,
Thanks for the advice. The elusive smooth release is the weak link in my shooting. I have a tendency to try to open my hand as opposed to just letting the sting slip off the fingers.
Also, my quick release contributes to a bit of an inconsistent anchor as you suggest. Ironically, my accuracy is pretty consistent (3-4" groups) out to 17 or 18 yds. I think if I address these two issues I would be a solid 20 yd+ shooter.
Thanks again.
Bob
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Hmmm, Im not as concerned about your release or even the anchor which is moving back as you release as much as your stance and the way you draw. You have the bow almost lined up and then you draw way up there.That breaks up the natural rhythm.You should be standing with your bow shoulder facing the target feet pointing perpendicular to the target.If target changes your feet should alos compensate; not turning with your waist which will change your draw length. And I think you amay need more cant in the bow although I dont know how far you were shooting but if its in the yard 15-20 yds -not enough cant! After that find a solid anchor to settle on. Are you screwin around with those screw tips!! Try wood arrows and glue on points!!!!he he
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Thanks, CV. I am not positive but it sounds like you would advocate more of a G.Fred method, i.e. a swing draw with more cant. I haven't really tried his method much, probably because my archery background up until a couple years ago was wheels - upright with a set arm.
I appreciate your thoughts.
Btw, I still shoot wood on occasion, but those CX Heritage arrows are hard to beat.
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I have to agree with CV about the Asbell system... that is how I shoot and it works out like a dream for me.. takes some practice, but then again what doesn't in this game...
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Tom,
I don't doubt the swing draw could work with enough practice. I find the pseudo-set arm approach to keep both my drawing arm and my bow arm under control (relatively). The few times I tried the Asbel method every thing went to pieces real quick. I won't go so far as to say my form is good, but it seems to fit me better than the swing.
Bob
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Well, what you should do is start from the very beginning and not be aiming at a target per se.Just shoot arrows for form for 3 weeks out in an open field with no target. Concentrate only on the nocking drawing anchoring and release and followthru.Thats enough to do without trying to hit a target as well.
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CV,
I really appreciate the advice regarding the swing draw, but this is the style I've chosen, and unlike Tiger I don't plan to rebuild my swing every 3 years. ;-)
If we assume for a moment that the style I've chosen will be adequate - and I don't think I'm the only one who begins my draw with my arm outstretched - I was looking for comments on release, follow-through, anchor consistency, hold time, etc.
Again, I really appreciate the thoughts about the swing draw, and I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but this is my chosen style so I want to optimize it, not make any dramatic changes.
46r
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46R , I dont care whether other shooters hold their bows straight out and then draw.That is not good -period.To further explain- according to Howard Hill thru John Shultz video Howard had some absolute rules that must be abided by .You need to change it if you want to get better.Your also not canting and tilting your head which will help you line up the shot better.And yes your anchor hand needs to solidly tuck the middle finger into the corner of you mouth and then Upon Release do nothing with both hands.In other words hold the position until the arrow hits the target. Sorry for being rigid but you ask for help and by george thats what your going to get!
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I just realized that you tried the swing draw and you said it all went to pieces. That sounds like your overbowed.Try a bow with a about a 30lb weight at your hold.Youll be able to draw and hold that position easily and after a month of shooting step up in 10lb increments .
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From what I see, if you want to be consistant at 20 plus yards you have to do everything the same every time. We way you are releasing now is fine out to 15 or 20 yards, but past that you are going to have consistancy problems. Try to find a solit anchor, and hold for 1-2 seconds to let everything settle in. focus on the spot you want to hit, and through good form and repetition you will become better at the longer distances. The bottom line is if you are happy with your current shooting, do nothing but practice. If you are looking to improve, you have got to try different things until you find what works best for your style of shooting.
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cv,
I'll sure consider your advice on the swing draw. I may be wrong but I don't think I'm overbowed. The bow is 50# at 28 and I can hold at full draw for a good long time when I can convince my brain not to release too quickly.
X2,
I'm not happy with my current shooting. I want to be solid at 20-25 yards and I am very inconsistent at that range. I can hit up to 17 yards in a kill zone all day long but there is something about that the 18 - 20 yard range...
I hear you about finding the solid anchor and holding for 1-2 seconds. I have been using Jay Kidwell's techniques to try to eliminate my quick release - but the mind is a funny thing. It seems to go on auto pilot when I start to shoot. Thanks for your advice.
46r
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The best way I have found to "cure" a quick release, is to get close to the target. Start out at about 5-8 yards. Focus on coming to full draw and holding for a couple of seconds. When you get that down, take a step back. If you start to shoot too quick again move back up. You will find the yardage that you do not feel comfortable at. Move a little closer until you are comfortable. In no time you will feel good out to at least 25 yards.
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Originally posted by cvarcher:
46R , I dont care whether other shooters hold their bows straight out and then draw.That is not good -period.
That's an 'absolute' statement, yet its not an absolute.
Nothing wrong with pre pointing, and to be versatile, a bowhunter should learn to pre point and swing draw to capitalize on the opportunities he's offered in the field.
Again, this is really just a 'style' preference, and the foundation of the shot is much more important than 'when you bring the bow up'.
Gonna watch the clips....
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Your alignment looks pretty good from that angle....and you are getting full extention. All I really can see is what OlGriz commented on. Looks like you are telling yourself to let go of the string. Your shot is very fast.
How satisfied are you with your accuracy?
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Originally posted by Terry Green:
How satisfied are you with your accuracy?
Terry,
I am satisfied with my short range accuracy - say up to 17 yds, but I am very very unhappy with my consistency beyond that. It's almost like a switch is flipped when I get beyond that distance and my groups widen quickly and dramatically. I have been fooling around with a longer hold time but it doesn't feel natural to me. Only shooting 50# so it doesn't seem like I'm overbowed.
46r
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at 17 to 18 yards you should be stacking arrows on top of each other. What you are seeing is the same consistency you get at 17 and 18 yards at it's natural progression..think of the arrows as a shotgun blast...the "choke" or pattern of your shots is 3 to 4 inches at 17 yards and they continue to spread beyond that.
You should be laying them together at 17 yards to the point you pick different spots to shoot to avoid scarring your arrow finish.
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Originally posted by Ray Hammond:
at 17 to 18 yards you should be stacking arrows on top of each other...
Ray,
I have my "moments" when that is the case, but it's the exception. The more I mess around with a little longer hold time the more I think that that is going to be key. Even though it feels a bit unnatural, I think it has the POTENTIAL to improve my shooting more than any other change. My quick release is "good enough" at 17-18, but like I said I want to be consistently in the kill zone at 20-25.
Thanks for the input.
46r
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OK, I think you are just shooting too fast, and not getting 'set'. It looks like you are not 'into' your shot. Not sure if you catch my drift on that or not.
I'd suggest you slow your draw down, and that will also slow everything else down and give yourself a little more time for everything to register and 'get set'.
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Other than Terry's last suggestion to slow the shot down a bit, the only thing I will add is, if you are going to pre-set or pre-aim your bow arm, start it out where you want to be instead of bringing it up as you draw.
For me, that helped ingrain the sight picture even more. I'm a pre-aim, touch and go shooter myself, and while I ain't no Howard Hill, I do ok, and having my bow arm set before I start drawing helps keep everything lined up. The plus for me is, if I need to shoot quick, I already know what I'm supposed to be seeing as I draw.
I don't know if I explained it very well or not, probably not, but I think Terry had good advice, slow down a bit and give yourself time to digest what your eyes are telling you.
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Tommy, Terry,
I had no idea how quick I was to release until I watched the video. I have been working on slowing the whole process down and I will be posting a follow up video shortly.
Good point, Tommy, about the starting point for the bow arm. I kind of start in no man's land - not down but not at full extension either. I will try your suggestion.
46r
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I have been working to slow my pace. For the life of me I can't seem to get it any slower than this latest video.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5386572107958551221
I feel like I am at anchor for a second or two, but I obviously am not. I am trying to cant slightly but it doesn't look like I am. I am trying to let the string slip from the fingers but it looks like I am consciously "letting go". I am attempting to keep a rigid bow arm, but it looks like its dropping a bit.
It was apparent when I posted my first video a couple of weeks ago I sucked. After a couple of weeks of steadily working to improve the evident flaws... I still suck.
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Much better!!!!!
While you are working on your form....don't aim....don't worry about where you arrows are.
Keep working on your form....and when you feel you've got it 'burnt in'....then you can aim...and you should start seeing improvement.
Stay after it......looks like you are on your way!
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Thanks, Terry. I'll keep at it. Here's a puzzling observation for you though. When I draw the bow with no intention of releasing, I get it to full draw - a full inch further than it appears I draw when shooting - and I can settle the anchor in rock solid, and then let down after several seconds. It seems that when I know my intention is to release at full draw my form takes on a whole different appearance. I had taken a video of reaching full draw without releasing and it is a very different picture than when I loose an arrow.
I think that if I can convince my body to draw as if I had no intention of releasing, and then release, I would be in a lot better shape.
That probably makes no sense at all.
Thanks again.
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Makes a lot of sense. You know you won't be releasing so have none of the pressure on you. Sounds like you have a mild case of target panic. You shoot fast because you want the shot over. Blank bale practice, drawing for form and letting down, like Terry said get your form set, then your release, then try to hit something.
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I got my own problems I work on everyday also, but its easier to find fault with someones style, I think you are consistent from shot to shot, something was not adding up though, I watched yours several times then watched howard hill he also shoots quickly, the difference I noticed was his head never moves regardless if he is bent over or standing, his arms and back are his only movment, if you watch yours you,ll notice your head and torsal moving with your shot, you fix that you,ll probably be deadly. Just an Idea from someone else who has problems also
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Dan,
That's an excellent point. There is ALOT of movement in my upper body when I shoot. I have been working on my hold time, and I am up to a good solid 2 seconds, but I'll bet the torso movement is still there.
I'm going to see if I can't work on steadying the upper body as well. I'm just about ready to post a new video and I'll bet I look like a different guy shooting - except of course for the fat legs and gray hair.
Thanks for pointing that out. You're one observant dude.
46r