Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: DaveKS on August 07, 2007, 07:49:00 AM
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I had one expert archer tell me it takes about 400,000 arrows to be able to shoot 70 out of 100 arrows in a six inch group at 20 yards.
For the people whove shot that many, did it take you about that long to consitently shoot a 6 inch group at 20
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Dave -
I thought it was after losing 400,000 arrows...
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That might be a little high. You would have to shoot 1095 arrows a day for 40 days and 1096 arrows a day for 325 (1 year of shooting) to reach 400,000 arrows. I can't speak for anyone but myself but I have never seen a day where I shoot over a thousand arrows. More likely I shoot 50-100 arrows a day 3-4 times a week. At my rate it would take me almost 200 years to shoot that many arrows. But I more than likely can come close to 70% in a 6" circle at 20 yards.
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Well if you shot 4 times a week, 100 arrows per session for 52 weeks a year, that equal 20800 a year. 400,000/20800 comes out to 19.23 years....I've got some catching up to do.
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Numbers like that floor me. 400,000? That's a *lot* of arrows. A *lot* of time. I'd better be able to put 70/100 into a 6" diameter group at 20 yards...
It reminded me of Ed McGivern -- the "Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting" guy. He wrote that it took him 125,00 rounds to learn a particular trick. As I read it I was thinking, "How does he find the time? Who's loading all those rounds? I wish I had a rich wife..."
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so whats your take?
how many do you think it takes to be able to shoot 70/100 into a 6 inch group at 20 yards
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A good coach could make it a lot less for you.
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Originally posted by DaveKS:
so whats your take?
how many do you think it takes to be able to shoot 70/100 into a 6 inch group at 20 yards
More than I've shot so far.
I just pulled 60 or so after reading this and I'd guess that 70% fell inside a 12" diameter circle. How many within 3" of my mark? I'd say more than 1/5, probably fewer than 1/3 -- but nowhere near 7/10.
Oh, well: 300,000 more to go!
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I don't think you can put a hard and fast number on it. Some people are just more talented and gifted with better hand to eye coordination. I've been shooting on a regular basis for more than five years. I don't know how many arrows I've shot but it doesn't come close to the number you stated. There are days when I don't dare shoot more than two arrows into the target because I'm sure to break one by hitting it with another one. Then there are days when about all I can claim is that I keep them all in the boiler-room of my 3-D deer. Anyway, I think 400,000 is an unreasonable number. Anyone with average ability and determination can do better than that.
John
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I really like what jhansen said.
Also, when starting out, you NEED to shoot a lot of CORRECTLY shot arrows to burn your alignment and form into your subconscious, to learn trajectory, and to gain confidence.
Once you learn to shoot well, then you don't 'have' to shoot that many....just make sure the ones you do shoot you make count, and they are executed properly.
I will say that I don't believe you will LEARN to shoot well by not shooting a lot of arrows. You wont get better by shooting less. Some will take more than others.
Always remember, the MOST important shot is the one you are fixing to make.
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Although I have shot bows since I was 9 (now 36), I am still new to traditional. Well unless you count that 2 year stint with a yellow fiberglass recurve when I was 9....anyway.... I would say if you focus on form and consistency (pay attention to Terry's posts-it works!), a few thousand TUNED arrows should get you there if you are dedicated, practice consistently, and regularly. Although you need to keep it fun, practice smart..practice form, shot exectution, and if an arrow is off mark try to think about why. Just shooting for sake of shooting may ingrain some bad habits. If it isn't working out, maybe the focus is not there...take a break and try again later. Take it one shot at a time.
Is this a good time to plug the tradgang video? I saw the trailer and it includes some of Terry's pointers on alignment and form. I am definitely looking forward to it!
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Dont try to play with numbers. Set your bow up tune your arrows work on form. Dont try to shoot to much poundage. Go out an shoot your bow an i promise It will come you will start to shoot where you look.Dont try to make shooting hard make it fun. As far as the 70% in a 6" group who cares.I worry about putting my first shot in the kill zone 100% of the time.
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I agree with rt2bowhunter,don't play with numbers. If you start counting every shot you make you'll warp your mind. Who ever said that may need to shoot that much, but i don't believe it. I've seen people that have shot for no more than a year do what that guy said it takes 400,000 shots to do.I'd forget I heard that and go shoot and have fun! :archer:
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Originally posted by DaveKS:
I had one expert archer tell me it takes about 400,000 arrows to be able to shoot 70 out of 100 arrows in a six inch group at 20 yards.
No offence, but I would no longer consider, this archer an "expert" :D
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Alright,5 more shots and I'll be an expert
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The trouble with Experts is that you can have a room full of them -- and a room full of differing opinions!
I have also seen "newbies" who have out-shot "expert archers", many times. How did they do it, you might ask... With talent, skill, proper equipment (bow AND arrows), attention to detail, a smidgen of "luck" and some really good coaching from an excellent teacher! Some of them didn't need to shoot more than 800 arrows, either.
I admit, even after 20+ years, I still can't shoot like that, myself.... Hey, I have never claimed to be an Expert.
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"No offence, but I would no longer consider, this archer an "expert" "
Rod....... :thumbsup: :notworthy: :D
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I do believe your archer friend was trying to tell you, in a joking manner, that it takes a lot of practice.Correct practice can make someone a decent archer in a few months, incorrect practice won't make anyone a decent archer in a lifetime.
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It would take me about 22 years to get to that number shooting 50 arrows everyday.
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Right on Rod. Perfect practice makes perfect shots, not the number of shots.
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Putting 70 out of 100 arrows in a 6" group will give you one thing! A LOT OF BROKEN NOCKS AND ARROWS!
I generally shoot groups of six arrows. If I can keep them within the bull on my bag i'm happy.
Like everyone else has said, Shoot because you love it, shoot because it's fun, and most important! shoot because it's what we do! Life is short fellow tradgangers, dont sweat the small stuff, and everything is small. ENJOY and REVEL in what we do for we are true.
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So, who was the expert archer you were referring to?
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A couple of days ago my brother showed up when I was twanging away at targets in the back yard. I invited him to give it a try, and moved the target in to about 12 yards. He watched me, then fumbled with the glove and armguard, and drew the bow. (I let him use my son's 30# 60" AMO Black Bear, told him to cant it right, draw back to anchor on his cheek, aim with his left knuckle, and release.)
Bullseye.
Okay, I thought, beginner's luck. He took another arrow, and it hit two inches to the right of the first. His third arrow was three inches high. He shot a dozen, his anchor was identical, his stance was identical, his shots were all in a tight cluster.
My brother is a natural athlete, and could use a better coach than me, but he has the God-given talent for shooting a recurve. Did I mention that he is both left-handed and left-eye dominant and used a right-handed bow? Did I mention that he just picked it up, drew it, pointed his left knuckle, and let loose?
I know that 400,000 arrows would help, but some people just have it. (He tried a 50# bow at 18 yards, and hit the target! I noticed that he did not snap shoot, but swung the bow with a natural grace, held anchor for two or three seconds, and released smoothly. "This is fun," he said. Damn, I thought.)
I know that my best groups come when I just walk out to the deck, glance at the target, relax, and release. My worst times come when I self-analyze. If I had my brother's natural talent, I would be afraid to shoot groups, for fear of splintering my arrows.
I think I need a new knuckle!
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Well said Matt E
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Originally posted by curlis:
Perfect practice makes perfect shots, not the number of shots.
Yep, but 50 perfect shots a day is better than 1 if you want to learn and improve. You can't learn to repeat something perfect if you don't learn to repeat it perfectly.
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I shoot 6 arrows a day...about...I'll NEVER be any good!
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Roger, once you learn to shoot...6 is fine ;)
I'm sure you are a fine shot as well.
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Someday...maybe...I shot with Fred Asbell and LaClair Saturday morning, and I was on.
Shot by myself today...almost threw my bow in the swamp! Go figure. :knothead:
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Ah..its all in your head...look at that elbow in your avatar....got it back PERFECT!
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"Yep, but 50 perfect shots a day is better than 1 if you want to learn and improve"
I couldn't agree more. I said I shoot 6 arrows a day...until right about now. From now through hunting season I try and shoot 30 minutes to an hour per day. Never more than 3 arrows in a group. When I find my concentration drifting, I quit.
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I'm preedy darn good at making more arrows.
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DaveKS,
Just saw this thread and don't have the time to read through all the reponses, but here is my response. 400,000 shots practiced the wrong way will do nothing for you. I guarantee you, with proper coaching, a beginning archer could easily be shooting a 6 inch or smaller group with no more than 100-200 shots, roughly, from a reasonable distance of 20 yds or so. AND with 100% certainty of hitting his mark.
Brett
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Originally posted by curlis:
... Perfect practice makes perfect shots, not the number of shots.
I don't exactly agree with this doctrine, at least not for non-elite shooters. IMHO this sets up an impossible goal that gets in the way of improvement.
Len Cardinale taught me to practice by working on only one thing at a time. Try to shoot a good shot, but focus on only one part of your form during each shot. I've found that when focusing on one thing that something else will often slip. This way, I improved the part that I was focusing on and knowing what slipped, tells me what I need to work on next.
The best that I can do right now is a pretty good shot, not perfect, just pretty good. My goal is a perfect shot, but I doubt that I will ever achieve that. If a perfect shot was the only kind of shot that was acceptable, I think that I would have quit archery in frustration a long time ago. I'm continuously improving, but I'm a long way from perfect.
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Len Cardinale taught me to practice by working on only one thing at a time.
AllenR....I too have been coached by Len Cardinale and I believe you are forgetting(no disrespect intended) one very important aspect of what Len was trying to tell you. And that is the importance of the bale to developing your shot. You work out every part of your shot sequence on the bale. And yes...you work it out one part at a time.
Then after you have "baled-in", so to speak, your shot, you test yourself on the target. If you cannot shoot your "bale shot" on a target with 100% perfection....you go back to the bale.
The purpose of the bale is to implant your shot into the subconscious so that 100% of your conscious thoughts/focus are devoted to aiming. You should NEVER try to work out problems while trying to hit a target. Why? Because the human brain cannot think about 2 things at once. You cannot be thinking about trying to hit the 10 ring and thinking about your grip or whatever....at the same time. Hence....that is the reason some archers shoot a bazillion arrows and still haven't made any progress. It's because of the way they practice.
Perfect practice does make perfect shots.
Brett