Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: deadpool on January 10, 2008, 07:50:00 PM
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my first shot was terrble, the next three I got decent grouping, but shot a little to the left!
here ya go!
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r27/icardona08/th_IMGP2863.jpg) (http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r27/icardona08/?action=view¤t=IMGP2863.flv)
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You will shrink that group if you put a solid white face on the target and put a nickel size black dot to concentrate on. Put a candle in front of the target and shoot in the dark of night.
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DEADPOOL,
LOOKS LIKE A DEER DEER TO ME!
Monkeyball
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Good grouping,are you RH? What type of arrows are you shooting?
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Heck with the grouping, what camo are you wearing, you were completely invisible, I only heard your voice and your bow.
Like was said above, put a smaller target up there it will help you concentrate on a just a spot instead of looking at a big target like that. Only shoot one arrow at a time, your first arrow is the only that counts.
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Not bad . Not bad at all using sights.
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cv archer, i didnt use a sight, i used my new j.d longbow, and yes i am right handed, I have another vid of me shootin a 25 yards with shows my form and everything, and the arrows i was using 480g carbons, and capt eddie, that sounds like a good idea, i will try that once i get my new arrows,
i can put up that other vid if u guys like, but maybe keept the volume off since i spit out the f word since i saw the broken arrow, and lol i set the camera on top of my a.c lol and i shot behind it
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Bows sounds real loud, and if you would cant your bow a tad to the right, your group will move to the right. But not a bad group. Maybe your arrows are too stiff, that will cause them to shoot left also.
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yeaaa i figured that, which is why I am just ordereing some woodies to help change that, Idk y but i always get perfect flight outta them, plus I dont have the funds to afford some decent carbons, plus I'm not a big fan of aluminums
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not bad shooting at all ! Didnt see any holes in that concrete block either, bet that makes for a great incentive
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oh you have no idea how great it is!
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That's a dang good group for 18 yds.
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If your target was directly facing you and not sitting at an angle it looks like your arrows are too stiff. That could account for some of that noise you are getting on the shot as well as the left grouping.
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jaeger,
the target was facing me the first shot, then shot after shot if moved little by little,, which made the arrows angle like that
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I kind of figured as much.
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great group. the noise from your bow could be the brace height. my bob lee sick was loud too. i bought siencers, limb savers, nothing helped. one day a friend showed me that my brace height was too high. i felt pretty dumb but quiet ever since.
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I got my new arrows today, GGII's, 175g field tips, total 523g.i think, I'm better groups now that I did with my carbons! gonna put of vid up in a bit!
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maaan i completely forgot my promise!
here ya go, next round
http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r27/icardona08/?action=view¤t=IMGP3190.flv
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You are colapsing on the shot.
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I agree, your droppin yer bow arm immediately after the shot. Maintain your form until you hear the arrow strike the target. Good group, at least your consistent. :p
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thats one thing i have to work on for sure, I can do it but remembering to do it shot after shot is whats getting to me, That i will work on for sure
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A lot of it has to do with your alignment...your bow arm and drawing elbow are both dropping it looks like, and your energy is not going directly toward and away from the target.
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"and your energy is not going directly toward and away from the target."
what do you mean by that?
my focus?
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Look up at the top of the list of threads on this forum and you'll see member form videos...read those and you'll learn more about alignment.
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What Terry said and you just seem to be haphazardly flinging arrows. Doesn't seem to be any consistency in your form. Slow down,and concentrate on every shot. Don't just nock it and let it rip.
And you need to make the first one the best one, not "always the worse one"
Work on your form and keep us updated on your progress...good luck
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Hmmm. To me it looks like your not even aiming at the target but to the right of it .Not wearing a glove either.I dont know about this one.
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alright imma make you guys a promise that wont be a problem for me to keep, if I can get a ride to the range this weekend, I'll show you guys what I can do when I take my time and focuse, cant do it now because I wore out the center face completley from my target. And I know it sounds wierd but I'm a much better shooter when i shoot barefinger, I just dont like the feel of gloves or tabs.
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That's what we're trying to tell you...you should always "take your time and focus"...otherwise you're just flingin' arrows.
If you're not looking for help with some constructive criticism....what are you looking to prove with this thread? Are you just trying to prove how good you shoot?
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thats why i came to this thread, i need to learn to take my time on every arrow, I'm not just some smug kid,I havent even earned the right to be smug, not that I will though, I'm listenin to you guys,your my teachers, I'm the student
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Well then......stay after it, and keep us posted! :thumbsup:
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will do sir
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Good attitude bud.....like Terry said,keep us posted :thumbsup:
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Barefingered and no Arm guard either. That aint gonna work when theres clothes on you if your hunting .Dont know why your cock feather is not perpendicular to the bow.Are those arrows made for clearing compound cables? Give us a side view of your shooting next time.
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those arrows where barely takin out of the box at the timee of the shooting, I shot them as they were and adjusted them later
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allright, i been doin some practice on my form and tryin not to drop my bow arm, tell me what you guys think
thanks again
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r27/icardona08/th_300002.jpg) (http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r27/icardona08/?action=view¤t=300002.flv)
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I Used to suffer from the "Bow Arm Drop Syndrome" myself. I was Peeking to see the Arrow Fly!! Dont Drop the Arm Until It Hits, when You HEAR it Hit. Took Me a Little Practice, and Several Times, My Arm was Fighting My "Pea-Brain". :rolleyes:
It Doesnt "Sound" Like a "Terrible Form Problem" but it can sure Ruin the Shot!!
Good Luck To You Sir! :thumbsup: :archer:
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You are muscling the bow as you have both shoulders and arms above your shoulder plane, and not aligned on bone structure....and here's what's happening.....
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/form3.JPG)
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/form4.JPG)
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allright Ima give it one more shot, and gotta give up for a few days until my new shooting gloves come in from the maail, brb in a few min!
ad shakes lol, wat light are yuuou talkin about?
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Don't worry about Shakes.....he's always seeing lights. :D
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k, heres my last vid until the next few days, when my new shooting gloves comes in,
hope its not the same as the last
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r27/icardona08/th_300006.jpg) (http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r27/icardona08/?action=view¤t=300006.flv)
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Wish I would have known.....I was in Vegas 2 weeks ago.
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really!??!
we could of gone to the bass pros range, so you can help me out there!!
lol
what part were you in?
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Terry...Ssshhh. :scared: :saywhat:
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oooh lol,
one more thing I'd like to add, not to be makin excuses, but I know from HIll shooters that "D" shaped bows have more kick compared to the recurves and hybrids, could that be one reason my arm drops every shot?
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Nah...the D shape aint got nothing to do with it. Them Berry bows are dandies BTW.
I was in the Venetian. I was there the same time George was...... :D
I'll give ya a shout next time I'm out that way.
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great hhopefully we can meet at the bass pros range some time!
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Glad to see you ordered a glove. Takes a little getting used to but it will help .Makes usre you get an armguard on as well. Im not crazy about your anchorpoint. It seems too high and away from your face in the video and then the release looks plucky along with it.Did you try the more common middle finger to the mouth? You dont have the arrow above your eye line do you?
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I like your slight down and right motion of your bow hand, but like was mentioned if your anchor could come down a little, the old index finger at the corner of the mouth is a good place to start. right now your arrow should be to the right of the target, if you get that down not only would your power line be easier to manage, but the arrow would be more under your eye. You have good natural abilities, tighten the form up a bit and you'll be great.
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What are you using for an anchor pt? Your draw ends too high,looks like you don't have an anchor.I think that's what's causing the result on your last video shot(from your reaction,it wasn't good)
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Yep......thats why his power points are above his shoulders, and the reason for the downward movement.
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59# is way too much for you to start on. You should find a 30-35# bow and get your form correct before even atempting to shoot a bow at 59#! Right now I think you may have a perfect case of "overbowed".
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hey tom, the thing is I didnt start on 59lb, I started from 40, to 47 to 50 to 55 then 59, not quikly changin ether, and for my anchor poin I'm using my middle finger just past py lip, not much,
and maybe if I am overbowed, I guess I could always trade down again
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I think your plenty strong, but really, take a close look where your anchor is. Try shooting with the Boys Scout salute, hold your pinky down with your thumb then draw so your thumb slides under and behind your jaw bone. The middle finger will line up close to the corner of your mouth then. I had a fellow threaten me once because he said he had a thirty inch draw, he had a 19'' draw in reality.
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hold my pinkie down ehh?
well heres another vid....i actually think I'm back where i started because i havent shot in a few days, my glove still hasnt come in,
here you go you guys,
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r27/icardona08/th_IMGP3472.jpg) (http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r27/icardona08/?action=view¤t=IMGP3472.flv)
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When you practice drew, you solidly anchored way back at the jaw pivot and pulled to the tip. If you look at your video you will see that there were a few inches out in front. Your draw length is your draw length it is a mistake to decide what that should be before your from is settled in. It is difficult to shoot and aim, at the same time changing your form around. I find it best for folks practice their draw and anchor without shooting until it feels natural. then try it out on the target. You do not look over bowed to me at all. Have you ever watched a video of Howard Hill? Much of your shooting motion with that really nice Berry looks like it fits the longbow shooting style. If you don't have it Hittin' "EM Like Howard Hill would help. One more thing, to check your general longbow form draw length, place your arrow or ruler just below your throat and reach both hands forward together, where your finger tips come without stretching is your draw length with a longbow. A recurve grip will give a little more.
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will do sir, looks like I may have to get that vid, and thanks for noticin im not overbowed, I really do need to practice my anchor, i should buy the clicker, and your right!
i just notice that the recurve actually gets me at 29", i notice i lose an inch or 2
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OK I see where you are anchoring in the first scene.Thats way past the mouth and your hand is at your ear. Afterwards in the video of your shooting we cannot see your anchor.If you are getting to the exact spot at your ear and it aint hitting any part of your face I suppose its ok.Clean consistant release is what you want. Just that the ergonomics of it may not be good to your form.Im curious but what is your height and what is your shirt sleeve length(eg-28-34").
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Can't see your face in that clip...not sure what's going on.
I did notice a loud 'click' when you nocked an arrow...almost sounded like your nocks are too tight on the string.
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im very close to 5'10, my sleave lenthe, honestly Idk...so I cant lie to you
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its not that, the camera can catch the smallest sound, come to think of it it does sound like that
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I am the same size as you, I draw 261/4'' with a standard longbow and 263/4 with a recurve, straighter bow arm. My son is 6'2'' draws 271/2'' with a long bow and 28'' with a recurve, I have never seen anyone that could out shoot him in the field. A life time of training pays its dividends.
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really?
because when I shot recurves,
28" were to short because when I drew them, the point would slide into the rest
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then again I did rescently realize that I over draw
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I use to shoot a BW target bow and a Black-widow hunting bow I used sights on both. I saw a picture of what i looked like at full draw, not good. It explained why I could burn up targets and was so worthless at game. Very few animals allowed me to get into that stance. I went from that to a Bear takedown and had a 281/2'' draw or so I thought. i pulled very long and then as I aimed it reduced to 27''. The reason it dropped was I needed that head position to know where I was aiming. you may have longer arms than me, check your reach with both arms in front on the ruler. In most cases that gets you close to the middle finger at the corner of your mouth. Now if you anchor past that of course you will come up with a bigger number. the more exact you are with your own stats keeping with an eyes in the game type of form the the more versatile you will be when hunting. Draw length doesn't kill, accuracy does. Hill had an arm span of 76'', but yet in the videos you will see that he released less than 28'' alot of the time, as can be seen on the DVDs in slow motion. you have a lot of natural talent don't get frustrated with all of this. I always say if it works for Hill and everyone he taught, I should not be that different and I am not.
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Shoulder width has a lot to do with draw length as well...I know some shorter guys with broad shoulders that have draw lengths longer than guys 4-6 inches taller. Its not all revolved around height.
You draw what you draw regardless...proper alignment and back tension gets you there.
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Very true, different people have different facial structures. What one see at the corner of the mouth anchor can be completely different than another. I have shorter arms than some folks my height, like I said Deadpool could have longer arms, the shoulder position can make up an inch or two as well. It all adds up to, when you got your form grooved in, then you know and not before that what your actual draw length is. It is quite common however, for someone to have a much longer draw when they are merely stretching a bow back than when they are shooting. I thinkit is best to work on those fundamentals and let the draw be what it is. but the kid can shoot, no doubt about that.
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allright guys, i think I TINK, i made have nailed it, idk, I did that finger to the mouth thing, the vid is uploading as i speak
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Laddy brings up some good points there. If I drew to my ear my draw length would also be 28 ".Thast why I asked what his arm length and height was. I didnt feel asking what he thought his draw length was would be true to proper form. I am 5ft 10' and draw 25" .The video will help him 100 %
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allright guys here it is, I hope im gettin better,
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r27/icardona08/th_IMGP3476.jpg) (http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r27/icardona08/?action=view¤t=IMGP3476.flv)
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idk if this is the right form, please let me know what to adjust
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r27/icardona08/IMGP3487.jpg)
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When you practice drawing, you are at least 1 1/2 inches longer than when you are actually shooting. In your practice draws you are overdrawing and putting the string behind your nostrils. When you shoot, your hand is slightly away it seems and you are not completely aligned. The arrow should line up with your drawing hand and lower arm. Do not worry about your draw length, work on your body alignment. I am 5'7" and draw 29" easy. These posts do help tremendously if you use them to your advantage and be patient. Everyone has a slightly different style, so will you. Keep up the good work and don't get frustrated.
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I think it's looking good. Two points kind of three points. One the right hand follow through flips off your face a bit. My son when he was 14, he would flip his hand out about a foot and a half. The longbow he was using did not react to it at all. When he tried a compound he finally believed me that he was doing it, I have never seen a compound shoot a boomerang like that. Two. Your form is a bit stiff and straight up and down. If you relax into the shot, try not locking your bow arm up and cant the bow. This will allow you to take those downward shots out of a tree stand a little more fluidly. Some shoot with the bow vertical with great results, point two is only a suggestion. Good work, this is fun!!
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OK...your drawing hand is WAY off your face at 'anchor'...I say 'anchor' in quotes because your really don't have a solid anchor. You are floating out to the side of your face, and its going to be hard to repeat it with no contact reference points, and you wont have a solid 'rear sight'.
Email me your address, I'm going to send ya something.....
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hey terry my email is [email protected]
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Fin job you did trad.gang good..zipperman
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OK...DVD is gone, and will be there tomorrow.
Take this into consideration as you watch the shooting alignment segment.....
You are not 'into your shot' yet, you are trying to learn at the moment, and not really sure what you should do or how you should do it.....and that's OK....it will come to you, and when it does, you'll know it.
I want you to get more personal with your shot, don't be afraid to contact your face or even distort it on the draw. Also take note of the double anchor.
Its all connected like a chain, you keep putting the links together, and if you commit, your chain will become case hardened.
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damn thats poetic!
lol
in all seriusness though thank you so much terry for bein so patient!
and all you guys as well,
im not postim another vid until i know for sure that i got my anchor, form and smooth release down completely
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The picture looks pretty good. Smash that hand into your face when you shoot. Bone to bone contact. The straight up rigid form is debateable. I can tell you that most ( but not all) top competitive shooters that I have shot with use it so if its working for you. Use it. I have never had any problems with hunting that way either.
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I think im gettin there!!
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r27/icardona08/th_IMGP3696.jpg) (http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r27/icardona08/?action=view¤t=IMGP3696.flv)
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heres one more!
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r27/icardona08/th_IMGP3697.jpg) (http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r27/icardona08/?action=view¤t=IMGP3697.flv)
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Thumb up, thumb down behind the jaw for some, but I would say what ever, looks good, have fun. Nice bow.
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wait.....so is that like a kudos or what?
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hold on i think this is a bit better
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r27/icardona08/th_IMGP3704.jpg) (http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r27/icardona08/?action=view¤t=IMGP3704.flv)
man i really need to learn that double anchor thing, cant seem to long my position once at full draw
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Sorry, I was listening to the Alex Jones show. Some people feel it is important to be able to lock up an anchor point. I have seen some remarkable shooters who do not. Hill said that some would better with a heavy contact at anchor and others a light touch. Taking him at his word, he obviously thinks what ever works for the individual is the right thing to do. Personally I am lost without the double contact providing it is dynamic and has a back tensioned draw strength supporting it. If I get to feeling that I am hanging on to the bow with the force of my anchor my arrow flight suffers. For holding time? It is nice to be able to hold and it is nice to be able to shoot fast, both are desirable to help make an archer well rounded, but I would not worry to much about a set time to hold on a target. It is also good to be able to draw very slowly and release instantly. I see lots of good things in your basic abilities that are on your side. Especially your attitude. You do have a really nice bow, are you still shooting bare fingers? Ouch
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lol no uch, drop so many pounds it feels like im pulling on a lil kids bow!!
yea that glove didnt wrk so well for me so i gave it to my cousin,
and thanks for the bow compliment, Its such an amazing shooter as well!!
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I could imagine your fingers are getting toughened up by now. Just curious what glove did you try? It probably felt thick and numb compared to the feel you are used to. have you ever tried a tab or a glove without inserts?
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tabs were the first thing i used when i started archery, the glove was this damsacus leather glove,
idk i just need that feel of the string to be able to shoot the way i want to
i already have tough raw fingertips lol
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teeeeeerryyyyyy!!
where are ya when I need ya man?!?!
lol
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Get Stev Shultz Traditional glove in cowhide.draw your hand and select the length of stall .Some like alot of stall and some dont. I like 1 3/8" so tell them that. Its about the best design and feel youll get.End of finger problem .
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Did you mean steve schulz john's oldest son? I knew James was, American Leathers, making shooting gloves, but have not seen anything from Steve in years.
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You are arching your spine into a 'C' toward the target....and this is causing you to short draw.
Look at your vids and you will see what I mean...you are not benting at the waist with proper alignment......let me see if I can find that pic I used earlier....
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This is the verticle aligment you want to strive for...and to shoot downward you simply bend at the waist and take this alighment with you.
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/form1clock5.jpg)
You don't want to make a curve with your spine, or drop your bow arm to shoot downward. This is how you look at full draw.
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/th_Jbf1230-1.jpg)
I think it would really help if you shot in the same place while standing, and putting the target at shoulder height. If possible.
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I am thinking that you should just make one shot on a video clip; and use your best form for it.
It seems like your a bit concerned if there is enough time for the shots in the time allowed; and its effecting your shooting.
In the photos Terry showed above; his bow hand is not gripping the bow straight up and down. The bow grip preasure is on the base of his thumb; not the palm of his hand.
I personally shoot with my bow hand almost close to being horizonal to the ground; the bow rest against the base of my thumb for the most part.
If I have a really heavy thick parka on; I need an arm guard; but under 98% of my shooting conditions or more- I don't need an arm guard.
I am going to try to show some pictures of what I am talking about.
I also shoot two fingers and anchor solid to my face; and touch my pointing finger to the corner of my mouth; which does not give you the same 'sight picture' that three fingers under does.
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This is how I normally grip the bow; if you notice; the string is a good distance from my arm; thus the lack of need for an arm guard.
(longbow)
(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj251/gundogsnbows2/bowarm013.jpg)
This is grasping the entire grip; and not resting the bow on the base of my thumb. In this form; I would need an arm guard.
(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj251/gundogsnbows2/bowarm011.jpg)
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If you want to see the bow grip I use- from the front; I saw the same thing by clicking on Tradtuskers ( #8659) name. It shows the same hold I use on the bow. Not sure how (or if) I should link that to here...
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SO HOW WOULD YOU SAY i AM GRIPPING MY BOW?
would it be the same as the first or second pic?
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Look at the picture you posted on feb 22 5:58. looks like your more like the second picture I posted. If you look on the main page; the Bob Lee advertisement; you can see a similiar grip; and in the picture of the child in the upper left corner of this page.
Nothing wrong with it; its just the more the bow just sits in the hand; the less torque or other negative influence- your bowhand will have on the bow.
When I bowhunt I normally wear a jacket; and I don't get any string slap on it.
I don't know if your out to kill a deer; or if your into target archery- my habits come from a lifetime of hunting.
So; when I practice I will kneel like I have seen you do shooting; and as well stand with my feet tight together; as I often hunt out of a treestand.
So far your shooting well enough at targets to be shooting at animals.
When I practice; I am in my head seeing a deer or elk or bear and visualizing that; and also I practice to be drawing the bow while being watched by other deer etc.
When I practice - like today; there were elk 300 yards away all over the hillside. So I will pick an elk out; and then shoot at a spot (ussually a can or clay pigeon) within range; and if I miss say left; and the elk in the background is facing left; I know that might have been a bad shot on the elk.
I also shoot balloons; and have night shoots at candles. At night your concentration has to be on the target- the flame- and your form has to be pretty consistant.
I am 57 though; and too young to start shooting really seriously.
:D