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Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: DRR324 on April 15, 2008, 09:26:00 AM
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Been reading back issues of TBM and found an article by Asbell regarding the swing draw vs straight arm style. Many years ago I recall being a swing draw shooter- this was while shooting at work in a sporting goods store. Since switching to the recurve full time, about 8 years ago, I am now a straight arm shooter. Fred talks about not being an instinctive shooter while shooting with the sraight arm. Got me thinking- and I tried to see if I was aiming more than just concentrating on my spot.... well- when I try to use the arrow as a sight alingment- I was missing everything- including my target at 10 yards...... then I tried to swing draw, and found myself slowing down the swing when I was at 3/4 draw- and then finshing the draw. After messing with that and not shooting worth a hoot- I went back to my straight arm and was shooting good again. I need to get a video posted and let you guys look at it. So- anyway, how many swing vs straight arm???
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I never could use the "swing-arm" draw as Asbell describes it. I found it very hard to draw even light weight bows that way for some reason. I bring my arm straight up while focusing on my spot, and when the sight picture looks right, I start drawing and complete the shot.
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I shoot both ways.
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I guess I use a combination of both... I swing draw, when the bow comes up on target I stop the swing and hold the draw about 4" from anchor. I then lock the bow arm and shoulder in place and continue the draw until I reach anchor. Maybe one second at anchor and if my "instincts" approve, I relax my hand to allow the string to slip away from my fingertips. To get a positive release, my back muscles continue to pull my fingetips back past my ear and usually stop when I touch my shouder.
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If the swing draw is done properly one can pull a much heavier bow, not that one should. The swing draw allows a draw that does not require rotation of the torso to begin and then complete the draw, with the straight draw one needs to rotate to reach the string once the bow hand is extended. Also, swing draws reduce the length of rotation of the shoulder joint under the strain of the bow's draw weight. Where I see folks getting messed up on the swing draw is where they begin to pick up draw length. That is they look like they are going to shoot at the ground and then raise the whole works up at three-quarter draw. This tends to get the draw arm elbow high, then to make it harder still they have the tendency to release while the bow is rising with no straight back in the draw.
For some, once they do it right, use it most of the time, others find rotating the torso and shoulders to be easier. For me, with bows that have a higher brace, it is not so important, that inch or two makes a big difference for me, with low wrist longbows I either spread draw or swing draw, making sure the last 6 inches is straight back and the bow is on target and not continuously rising.
"Sheep are a peculiar crowd." -Big Bad Wolf
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Huh?
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I am not sure how I would classify my shooting style. I start with the bow down at my side. I pick my spot and concentrate. When I am ready to shoot I start to draw as I raise my bow and when my bow hand gets into position I finish drawing to anchor and release. It is one motion but I only get to about half draw before my bow hand is in position.
I have tried shooting staight arm style and I just cant seem to pick a spot with the bow in my view as well.
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Straight arm for me. I start focus on the spot I want to hit, bring the bow up to where it feels good, and then begin to draw.
Works good for spooky whitetails. I like to think I`m hiding behind the bow and they can`t see me. My story.
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I use both
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I was shooting again last night and just thought it was odd that I used to swing draw- at a time when I hunted with wheels, and once I switched to the curve- I began shooting with straight draw style. I tried to swing draw again last night- and it was just plain difficult not to resort to holding the arm up too long to find my site picture like I am used to. I don't have little league practice tonight, so after I clean up the mess I made trimming my autumn olive bushes Sunday night, I'll break out the video cam and try to post a few clips tomorrow. I'm looking forward to Terry, Guru, and others giving me some advice. I feel I shoot relatively well, but certainly am not opposed to shooting better!!
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I bring the bow up to the target and then start my draw.
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I also use both methods. More straight arm draw when the position requires it, such as sitting or kneelin on the ground when I can't get a full swing. If you learn to do both you won't be limited by an unexpected shot oportunity.
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Hey all,
I hate to come into a thread like this...But, What is swing drawing? Could someone discribe it?
Thanks,
Brian
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Both.
Brian,
Swing Draw is the term used to describe the techinique of drawing the bow at the same time as you raise it from your side.
Ray ;)
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I shoot both ways, depending on the hunting situation. I like a swing draw best. But, sometimes you have stuff in the way, so you have to practice both.
If I can't swing up, I find I get about the same rythm effect by a pronounced push-pull to extend the shooting arm in the draw. For me, this maintains the "line", keeps me pulling through the shot, and helps avoid side-cast from a locked straight bowarm.
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i use both.
in most hunting situations i naturally revert to a swing draw, . at longer ranges ,my draw tends to take longer , sort of gapping i suppose.
that's mainly with my longbows.
when shooting a heavy handled recurve i tend to shoot more straight armed, locking my elbow more and having my bows traight out in front for the majority of the draw.
ben
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Straight arm, focusing on my spot. I don't feel comfortable swinging my bow arm.
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More on what it is:
It is the method promoted by the great Howard Hill, for hunting and general sport archery. With it he took more than 3000 game animals, won 196 straight field archery events and was the greatest trick shot. We owe much of our sport to his work.
He held the bow alongside his thigh with the bow arm extended but with the elbow flexed. He began his draw as he swung the bow up into the line of sight to the target. He reached the line of sight with about 8 inches of draw remaining and aimed while completing the draw. He usually released promptly upon reaching his anchor, near the corner of the mouth. He sometimes held at anchor a bit, and sometimes in the heat of action released before reaching anchor, usually with good results.
This was contrary to the target style of his day. And it surely provides more economy of effort. It enables the use of heavier bows and gives less fatigue in a long day of shooting.
Interestingly, for the latter reason it is being adopted even by some Olympic style target shooters.
It can promote excessive snap shooting if you are not careful, partly because it is possible to snap shoot pretty well this way. The remedy is be sure to reach anchor when you have time, and whether you do have time or not to make a good long follow-through, straight back. He had a wonderful, relaxed follow-through.
It is a good way to shoot a bow. - lbg
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straight arm works for me. Focus, draw, hold at anchor and smooth release then follow through. Vermontser 13 has helped me alot. I never thought I would be where I am after only 4 months. I am ready to tackle turkeys in a week and a half.
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I have tryed both. straight arm works best for me. I put the bow up to where it fills right. then try to picture the path the arrow will take to where I wont to hit draw touch anchor let her rip.
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Whump Sez: Both----depending on the situation I may have to draw straight arm due to something in the way or to avoid unnecessary movement. If I can get away with the movement I swing draw. Do what feels good but try not to get locked in to a fixed position if you hunt. You will be a sad little monkey one day if you do. Hunt safe.
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Mostly straight, but use both from time to time. Its a good idea to practice different positions, I think.
You never know what contortions you'll be faced with in the wild places.
David
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Great post,
I feel if one uses swing draw for hunting they are at a disadvantage.We bowhunters have enough circumstances to overcome,why in the heck make it more difficult w/ all the movement swing draw takes.
I started swing draw w/ Asbel's books, but when I watched Bowhunting October Whitetails and saw one of the Wensels shoting a bow I quickly changed to set-arm.IMO,set-arm is better for hunting
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Overbow....I think a bowhunter should be able to do both for versatility, cause there are circumstances when the swing draw is an advantage. I use the pre point, and straight draw back 95% of the time to minimize movement, but I have used the swing draw with great success under the right conditions. HH killed a lot of stuff using it that's for sure, the list of his kills is pretty darn impressive....but I'm sure he got busted a few times as well.
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The more bag of tricks you can teach yourself...the more you can use them under the proper circumstances that each trick can apply to...which is why some of us choose to learn and practice from awkward or unusual positions.
If you don't practice it...it's kind of hard to know or have the confidence that you can do it.
Ray ;)
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I am with Terry, I practiced the swing draw about ten years ago, listening to Paul Brunner. I never liked it as an "all the time thing".
I have used a combination of the two, most often using the swing draw when game appears suddenly, or when game is moving by at close range. It pretty much just taks over, and the shot is made.
I perfer a straight arm draw, (1) it reduces movement, (2) it meets my idea of instinctive shooting, which is simply pointing the bow hand. I must admit that the swing draw, at least for me is a very short range proposition. Something in the neighborhood of ten to fifteen yards.
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Put me down for both. :campfire:
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Well, depends on what bow I am shooting. With a recurve I find it easier to have straight arm, push/pull. Now longbow, I love the swingdraw and get good with it. I have noticed that when hunting out of a treestand and a shot present, I have a tendancy to get bow up straight arm then draw instead of swing. Don't know why, because if the shot is there to move the bow into up position, it is there to swing and shoot.
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You should practice to be proficient in both techniques. Both have a place under certain conditions when hunting game afoot. I'll transition between the two and at times morph the two w/out thinking. I've watched myself on video taking multiple back to back shots on multiple targets at various distances to include movers and saw I was going back and forth between the techniques depending on the shot.
Daddy Bear
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I only use the swing draw from when I was 8yrs old to now.For me its the most relaxed natural way to get the bow itno shooting postion. Bow arm is never locked straight for me it is too much effort that I dont need.Longbowguy describes it very well.
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Straight arm...
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Originally posted by Daddy Bear:
You should practice to be proficient in both techniques. Both have a place under certain conditions when hunting game afoot. I'll transition between the two and at times morph the two w/out thinking. I've watched myself on video taking multiple back to back shots on multiple targets at various distances to include movers and saw I was going back and forth between the techniques depending on the shot.
Daddy Bear
I think it's good to practice both, too. In my opinion, the important thing is getting to your anchor. Once you're at anchor, how you got there won't really matter. I think a swing draw is very useful for shooting quickly and on moving targets. It's a bit more fluid. But when bowhunting, sometimes you have to "sneak" the string back with the least amount of perceptible movement and I feel that's when a straight arm draw is best.
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Im with cvarcher. Ive never not used the swing draw, accept when I wasnt doing something entirely different! So, in answer to the thread title, "How many swing draw vs. straight arm?, I'll just guess and say 176,453 swing draw.
On second thought... I'll just go with what Daddy Bear said!!
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Check out some videos of FITA archers shooting BEST style (following Coach Lee). Many of them pre-draw while raising the bow - a long pre-draw. The actual draw is then very short and follows after the briefest of pauses.
Quite similar to a swing draw. And wins the Olympics, too.
Best,
Martin
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I work on both when I pratice .
Mike
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John Schulz produced a video quite a few years ago that shows how to do the swing draw that Howard Hill used. But that wasn't the only way Hill drew the bow. If you watch videos of some of his faster shooting, he is using a push pull method, which is what Fred Bear also used. I use all three, depending on the situation. If I'm stump shooting, swing arm seems to come naturally. Drawing on an animal, I usually have my arm extended toward the critter before I draw. Then, there's very little movement when I draw. On small, mobile critters like rabbits and squireels, I may use swing arm or push pull, depending on where my bow and arrow happen to be when I see the critter. For 3-D shooting, I tend to use push/pull almost exclusively. They all work, and I like to practice all three.