Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: Arthur Scottie on October 19, 2008, 02:13:00 PM
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Can someone intimately describe Howard Hills from to me? I picked him to copy, for obvious reasons, such as the 193 tournaments consecutively won, or the 5 yard coin shot, or the 20 yard prune on the head shot, or the 31.5 inches of penetration on an elephant, and so on.
I love the man, and feel like he did something right, so I want to copy his form. I am going to buy the DVD, but any info to hold me off until then is greatly appreciated.
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Can't help on analyzing his form but I believe there are a few clips of him down in the "Legends and Pioneers" section and the "Classic Traditional Archery/Bowhunting Video Clips" section.
Welcome aboard! But you may find that you've got to do this or that a little different. Archery can be a pretty personal thing and some people just can't shoot well at all when they try to shoot like someone else.
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good advise there Soilarch :thumbsup: right on
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I also agree with Soilarch!
Ray ;)
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If you watch videos of Howard Hill shooting you may see that he does several things "wrong" as far as what most would call perfect form. He often seems to be hunching his shoulders and shortening his draw for instance. Hill was a big man. Depending on your physical build, what worked for him might not be best for you. The same would go for watching Byron Ferguson or our own Terry Green. Both are impressive archers but what works for them might not be exactly right for you.
Certain principles do apply however. Check out Terry's "Form Clock" for ideas. There are several good DVD's available as well as books to give you pointers. Then go out and apply those principles while you develop your own form, the one that works for you. I think Byron Ferguson said it best...good form is whatever it takes to put the arrow where you want it.
John
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If you'd like to shoot in the Howard Hill style, I strongly recommend buying "Hittin' 'em Like Howard Hill" by John Schulz, both the book and the video. John Schulz was personally taught by Howard Hill and he faithfully explains and demonstrates the Howard Hill shooting method. Howard Hill's films show him shooting, and the footage is amazing, but they don't actually "teach" his style.
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You might also consider Bob Wesley's book / DVD and or going to his school. He also teaches Howards style....Ken
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800 hundred shots does not sound like work when you can shoot prunes off peoples heads... sounds like fun!
I guess I may have to step it up a notch. It never feels like work though. Specially when you hit the mark.
I heard it is best to use a straight arm. I heard he bent his arm in his later days so he could get heavy enough spined arrows for his monster bows.
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Great point, O.L. No substitute for experience and hard work. Grant
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Even 'wrong' can be perfected with enough consistency.
The 3Cs of archery are: Control, Consistenct and Confidence..they all work together.
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I like Steve Fausel's take on the Hill style. Very smooth and fluid. This works well for me with a straight handle longbow for hunting.
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Yes he practiced, yes he was VERY talented, and he had a great foundation/alignment. As you can see in the clips here at Trad Gang, his energy was always going directly toward and away from the target. His shot was based on proper alignment, and with his gifted talents, he rode that foundation all the way to the beach.
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I use his form, mostly, and have studied all the sources I could find, so I'll try to summarize it briefly.
Grip the bow deeply enough so your thumb points forward. Relax the forefinger and take a gentle grip with two or three of the others; he used the lower two, I use the middle two. The back of the hand should make about a 30 degree angle with the back of the forearm. The lower part of the handle should line up about with the base of your lifeline, in line with the upper bone of your forearm.
He held the arrow on the string between the first and second fingers. He placed the arrow above his nocking point and drew the string with his finger tips and a glove. Nowadays many of us use a tab, place the arrow below the nocking point and use a deep hook hold on the string.
He stood erect and square to the target line, and began his draw with the bow held alongside his thigh. He drew as he swung the bow up into his line of sight, timing it so it reached the line of sight with perhaps 8 inches of draw remaining.
During the draw he canted the bow about 20 degrees, give or take, and tilted his head and neck to place his eye over the butt of the arrow.
He was 6'2" tall and could have easily drawn to 30 inches or more, but chose to limit it to 28". To do so he held his bow arm shoulder low and flexed his elbow a good bit. Despite the shortish draw he was able to get his string arm and elbow generally in line with the arrow at the instant of the shot. He did this I believe by making the movement of his string arm and elbow a rotational one, not just a rearward pull. His follow-through continued the rotation with the elbow moving to the rear and around toward his back, by several inches. During follow-through the bow hand moved forward and then swung left as his arm fully extended.
He held the thumb of his string hand low, and advised touching it to pinky finger, if possible. He anchored by placing the tip of a glove finger near the corner of his mouth, actually in the gap where a second bicuspid was missing. This matter is highly individual depending upon face shape.
He aimed by focussing on the target center but made a mental note of the location of the arrow in his peripheral vision, so he could adjust or repeat the aim on subsequent shots. This method has come to be called secondary vision or split vision aiming and is a bit different from the instinctive, gap and point of aim methods. He completed his aiming during the final part of the draw so he could shoot accurately at instant he reached anchor, if need be.
His swing draw method of drawing produces greater economy of effort than the set-arm and push-pull methods which enables the handling of heavier bows or shooting more arrows before fatigue begins. The latter is the reason I have returned to it, so I can shoot more arrows in practice and stay fresh to the end of long target events.
He highly valued rhythm in his shooting, shooting at a quick and consistant pace and most often releasing the shot at the instant he reached anchor, though he sometimes paused to refine his aim, especially at long shots. He practiced fast multiple shots.
A final point: he was a large and powerful man for his time and had huge hands and wrists by any standard. He began with simple and inefficient self bows which required heavy draw weights for good performance and exercised with weights for many years to develop his power. After fibreglas backing made bows more efficient he did most of his archery with bows of no more that 70 pounds and I have heard he used as low as 55 pounds. Men of different stature will need to adapt the style and bow weights to suit their own frames. It is an excellent method hunting and rapid shooting. But it can also produce championship level target accuracy when used with a slower rhythm. It's good way to shoot a bow. - lbg
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Alot of great stuff here, I would strongly recommend if you want to learn the Hill style, "HItting them like Howard Hill" dvd and attending Bob Wesley shooting school, helped me alot.
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Aurthur, I pick Micheal Phelps as the way I want to swim, how do you think I'll do.
Howie was built like an orangutan, super strong with long arms.
Like me swimming like Michael Phelps, you must first decide to what degree am I willing to dedicate myself to my goal
24,000 shots per month, month in and month out, might seem like a worth while goal, as we already know, most arnt willing to pay the price to be number one.
Good luck
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Originally posted by Kingwouldbe:
Aurthur, I pick Micheal Phelps as the way I want to swim, how do you think I'll do.
Howie was built like an orangutan, super strong with long arms.
Like me swimming like Michael Phelps, you must first decide to what degree am I willing to dedicate myself to my goal
24,000 shots per month, month in and month out, might seem like a worth while goal, as we already know, most arnt willing to pay the price to be number one.
Good luck
i think you would make an excellent olympic swimmer
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Originally posted by longbowguy:
Grip the bow deeply enough so your thumb points forward. Relax the forefinger and take a gentle grip with two or three of the others; he used the lower two, I use the middle two. The back of the hand should make about a 30 degree angle with the back of the forearm. The lower part of the handle should line up about with the base of your lifeline, in line with the upper bone of your forearm.
Could you elaborate a bit more. Grips are so hard to describe. Maybe a picture?
Thanks,
Bob
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Junker, You'ev never seen me in a speedo :scared: , I don't fit, I got the Dunlap disease, my belly Dunlap over my belt. :help:
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One thing I noticed watching Hill footage, when he releases his Bowhand is rock solid, great to watch
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One thing to remember about Mr. Hill. He made a living out of shooting the Longbow! Not just making bows or tackle. His presentation and smooth, casual style was paramount. Like everyone else said, arrow after arrow, thousands. He just didn't get there overnight, decades of practice and refinement. I am sure someone can get there again, but will take alot of time, effort and dedication. wish you all the luck, like you I aspire to be like him, but will settle for a bronze!
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yeah, we would all like to be like him.
I have to admit, my real goals are not as ambitious.
Kill a deer.
Eat it.
So what are we talkin, holding a 6 inch group at 20yds? I know I can do that,
It would be cool though, to be able to do the stuff he did. John Schulz, his apprentice, man he sure can shoot them aspirin!
Hah! I sure would like to swim like Michael Phelps. How would I do? That is particularly funny when I look down at my gut!
Hill will never be topped. I may never be known for my skills, and I respect all those who are respected for their skills. I want my grand kids to be frightened at how many antlers litter my attic!
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24,000 shots divided by 28 days to a month, that is only 858 shots a day!
Better fill my quiver, because 8 arrows would mean 107 quivers a day!
Wow.