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Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: tim roberts on July 19, 2009, 05:24:00 PM
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Ever since April, I have been trying to find a video camera so I could see if anything needed to be done that could improve my shooting, well I haven't been able to find a video camera, but I did get a few pictures........
(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/Timroberts_bucket/Tim_and_Luis_0281.jpg)
(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/Timroberts_bucket/Tim_and_Luis_0341.jpg)
(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/Timroberts_bucket/Tim_and_Luis_0451.jpg)
(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/Timroberts_bucket/Tim_and_Luis_0351.jpg)
Thanks,
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Tim -
Without seeing the complete draw, anchor and release it is hard to tell. However, I have a friend that also shoots a tab and his hand flies out to his right like yours in the last photo. Have you tried to release the arrow and just naturally let your right hand come straight back past your ear and even as far as touching your shoulder? Just a thought......
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Ric is right about it being hard to tell but I would say that you haven't engaged your back muscles. Drawing with your shoulder often means that when you release you get that fly-away release. If your back is engaged and you make that little elbow movement back, it is almost impossible to get that flyaway release your picture shows. If you look you have about three inches of arrow hanging off your bow. I would almost bet that pulling to a full back tension draw would shorten that overhang by at least 2" and maybe all 3". With my own shooting and teaching I have often found that the problem isn't the problem. For example I had a habit of my bow arm slashing down upon shooting. When I tried to not do it nothing happened. But when I figured out I was gripping wrong it disappeared.
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Ric,
The "Side Release" is something I am working on, it seems like I can get everything right up to that point and then I remember right as the arrow is leaving the shelf.
Pete,
My draw length is 25" I think I am getting closer to 26" when I constantly pull off the arrow. My arrows are cut at 29" as that it what my bow likes.
Thanks for the help.............Any others?
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Tim...you look good, nice form, steady bow arm but throwing your hand out to the side is the only negative I see.
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Just a couple observations:
1] on your initial draw you are upright,buttons of your shirt are over your buckle. But at full draw you are leaning way back. See where your shirts buttons are in comparison.
2] bow fingers are extended, which can induce increased muscle tension in the hand creating unwanted bow torc.
3]as mentioned above by others, your release conclusion is to the side of your face,rather than straight back to the top of your shoulder. This indcates loss of back tension which would certainly help your shot conclusion.
Not an expert here by any means, just passing along helpful comments that i've received myself.
Good Luck
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What Hartlines said....plus...pictures only show so much...if you can video, you will reveal what really needs to be worked on.
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The bow looks so straight up and down. Tipping my bow slightly right seems to induce my back muscles, but thats just me.
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Tim,
I think you are still creeping before release, as you discovered when I filmed you earlier this year. I will go through my files, I might have a video of you shooting, if so I will post it.
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Here are two clips I have of Tim shooting in April, hopefully they will help.
The first clip is close to how I remember Tim shooting at the Moose Creek shoot at the end of May:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/Slivershooter/th_Form027.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/Slivershooter/?action=view¤t=Form027.flv)
This was his form after he worked on it with a camera for fifteen minutes:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/Slivershooter/th_Form028.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/Slivershooter/?action=view¤t=Form028.flv)
A side note, in these pictures Tim is shooting the first selfbow he had made.
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instead of leaning back I like to lean into the shot ????????
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v508/134sawney/BarberShoot2009_42.jpg)
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release and follow-thru is much better in the second video
But form your pix it looks like you've gone backward a bit and are collapsing at release again causing the flying hand release.....
I like the upright stance and a slight lean back away from target is good help get things lined up....definitely don't recommend leaning toward your target. That just scrunches everything up and causes bad alignment and shorter draw.....
Great pix Tim!
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I'm no expert nor do I claim to be. I will offer this "advice" that was given to me. It seems like you're hunching your shoulders just a bit. It also seems like your draw hand is creeping slightly forward as you reach anchor right before release. I was told dropping your shoulders down aid in the engagement of the back muscles for better back tension and possibly an increase in draw length and better release. This is not to say that you are a horrible shot or anything. Maybe this was psychological, but it helped to improve my accuracy after studying Terry's clock.
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I agree with Guru's assesment. Slight collapse on release.
I notice you shoot with a very open stance. Watching the video it seems like you aren't quite getting fully inline with the shot. The biggest problem with standing facing the target is getting good alignment. I find that stance, especially if your torso/ hips aren't very flexible, tends to cause the shoulders to hunch up and limits the ability of the scapula to rotate down and in. Back tension is just a fancy term to describe the scap moving closer to the spine during draw and release. I find the really open stance makes that motion more difficult from a biomechanical standpoint.
I would suggest closing the stance a bit and work on getting the elbow inline with the arrow. In regards to the release, I know getting better alignment will allow the hand to come straight back. I had the same issue and it was caused by my shoulders and elbow being out of line. Improving alignment means more force is moving in the line of the arrow, not sideways, and the natural reaction is for the hand to come backwards.
Your overall form looks solid. It looks like your at the stage where the major parts of the shot are in place and now the minor things make more difference. A few minor tweaks and you will see a big difference.
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Thanks for the input, haven't really had the chance to read it all as I am in Montana and the only web access I have is on the phone, unfortunately the words are so small its like tryin to read something from a lawyer.
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Final got a chance to sit down in front of the real computer screen, thanks for all the input. I missed a chance to go back up to Walt's and get some more video shot, big big wind storm in Ennis collapsed the tent, so had to go take care of that emergency instead of going to Walt's. Am going to work on getting some video this week.
Thanks again,