Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: nightowl1 on January 04, 2010, 12:15:00 AM
-
Simple question. Not loaded or looking to start a debate just wondering why people like Ferguson and others use 60+ lbs weight bows.
I have theories but thats it.
-
My guess is that it has to do with flatter trajectory and a quicker arrow for moving targets.
-
Ferguson in his book (Become the Arrow) he states that he is a hunter and likes to use a hunting weight bow to shoot so all his shots feel the same.
-
That is what I was thinking.
They seem to shoot wood arrows which ( I'm not an expert on wood arrows) I believe it would be harder to get in a real light weight. So they shoot a stronger bow to increase speed in trajectory for the different range shots.
My guess is if you were to shoot a really light carbon you could get away with the same thing with a really light bow, since your just punching holes and balloons.
You would might loose showmanship points though. It definitely more interesting to me to watch a guy shoot an arrow out of a bow capable of taking any game animal on the planet, and hit stuff I might miss with a 12 gauge!
Just some thoughts, love this stuff!
-
Byron Ferguson uses aluminum arrows form Easton. His book calls this out and if you watch impossible shots on TV you can tell they are aluminums.
-
I would speculate that since he does and has shot so much, what we consider heavy weight is not to him.
Until the last couple years I didn't consider my 75# recurve that difficult to shoot. Now I do. Time wins all battles.
-
It’s all relative. I shot a 76# recurve for years and shot often, which was great preparation for shooting my 84#. By comparison, shooting one of my bows in the mid 60’s was its own kind of fun.
Byron states he shoots 10’s of thousands of shots a year. At that rate you’d probably be surprised how little work it becomes…and how you might no longer see 60# as a heavy weight bow. Rick.
-
Many people shoot better with a heavy bow, because the release tends to be better. It's hard not to release a heavy bow smoothly. I shot much better when I could still handle 65# with ease. In those days I shot around 100 arrows a day.
-
A heavier bow is more forgiving of a sloppy release. A light bow is very critical of a sloppy release. Trajectory is not a big deal for close range trick shots.
-
You folks probably never hear of Bob Markworth, probably the greatest so-called trick shot of the 60's and 70's. He used bows in the high 30's and low 40's. Frank Addington doesn't use heavy bows, but I guess you never heard of him either. Stacy Groscup used a 55 pound bow but only drew about 26 1/2 inches....hard to top Stacy's record either. Byron is the only one I know of note that shoots a heavy bow, and he was born with one in his crib 8^).
-
hey George! I know Frank and saw Stacy shoot many years ago. His passing was a great loss to archery. I agree about Byron being the only 'trick shooter' using a heavy bow. there's a young and upcoming shooter named Chris Hurt from PA that's gonna be talked about like these other fellows in years to come and, Chris dosen't shoot the big weights either.
-
Bob Marksworth was great !! He just never got the TV exposure Ferguson got. Media exposure works wonders even if your not all that good.
-
About heavy bows and trick shooters - didnt Howard Hill use quite heavy bows all the time ?
-
'cuz he is stronger than me....way stronger.
-
I don't remember if it was durring one of his live shows or on a video but Byron Ferguson says he gets a cleaner release shooting a heavy draw weight bow.
-
Originally posted by Gapmaster:
Bob Marksworth was great !! He just never got the TV exposure Ferguson got. Media exposure works wonders even if your not all that good.
I doubt that it was your intention, but this post comes across to me as saying that Byron Ferguson isn't that good of a shot. At least to me it reads that way.
-
Doesn't Byron Tabor shoot over 65lbs.?LCH
-
I saw Stacy Groscup shoot an I ,m pretty sure they said he was shooting 29 # at the time. He was getting up in years when I saw him. Oh he layed on the ground with both moccasins in the air an shot better than I will ever shoot standing or any other way, He was a great shot an a true spokesman. Bob
-
Ron La Clair also used to shoot pretty heavy bows.
-
I watched Byron Ferguson "ricochette" an arrow off of 4 plywood panels and break a balloon. I would think that after bouncing off 2 pieces of plywood the arrow would have pretty much "run out of gas"..... BUT 4!!!!! :notworthy:
-
Since I'm an old friend of Byron's and actually had an encounter with Bob Markworth in the late 70s (More about that later George:^))I think I can lend some insight to the question and comments. I've heard Byron say that he uses hunting weights for exhibitions because that's what he's accustomed to. No tricks or strategies involved at all. He shoots what he knows.
Now George, about Bob Markworth. In the winter of 1978 I was doing my student teaching near Ft. Knox at an area middle school. Back then SE US school's offered monthly entertainment programs to their students;I believe they were called "Southern School Assemblies". Bob was performing at my school and, as he often did, enlisted audience members to participate in shooting a bow so he could have them see how easy it was to get started. My supervising teacher knew that I had shot AAU and NAA at my university, so began jumping and pointing to me when Bob began collecting his "volunteers". He took the first "shooter" and had them stand about 10 feet in front of an Olympic style indian grass target mat so they could at least hit the target face. Bob would then have them back up a few yards until they missed, which usually occurred within the first 10 or so yards. Of course the target was BIG, an Olympic size target mat! When it became my turn:^); I hit the gold at 5 paces, then 10 paces, 20 paces, etc., until I had finally reached the back of the dang gym and a WALL - well over 100 feet! The kids in the upper bleachers were going absolutely crazy! Even at the end of the gym I was still using the lightweight target bow to drop arrows into the gold. Bob was HAD! You should have seen the look on his pretty assistant's face! By moving me back in small increments Bob was actually helping me with each arrow, as I was able to make small adjustments between shots! I had been trained in "point of aim" AND gap shooting so I was basically walking the arrow into the NAA/FITA gold. Man, does seeing Bob's name bring back some memories! That man did a lot of good promoting archery and it's history to all age groips; I remember seeing him once or twice on the Tonight Show and other national programs.
-
I know I shoot better with certain draw weights, and the more I shoot, the more that weight increases, so I imagine Byron and others shot so much that they began to feel very little tension at full draw, and had a harder time coming off the string, as others have indicated. It is easier to get a good release with a heavy bow, and for me it just helps my subconscious with coming off the string without conscious effort. My shot seems to happen a little quicker with heavier bows naturally as well, so that also may have something to do with it. I may hold a 55# bow at draw well over 5 seconds before the tension has built up enough for my subconscious to release, but with a 68-70# bow it's closer to 2-3 seconds at full draw. It's not that I can't hold them at full draw, which I can do and still shoot accurately for well over 10 seconds, but it's just that the tension builds up to the right amount faster and things just happen quicker.
So perhaps that could be part of the reason some of the trick shots and great shots of the past (Howard Hill, Paul Schafer as well) shot heavier bows.
Craig
-
pdk25, ya, after I read my own post it doesn't sound very good does it. I didn't mean for it to sound that way, I guess I just worded it wrong. Byron is a good archer. I'm not saying he isn't. What I was trying to say is that even if a guy was not any good at all, that if he got enough media coverage he could be made out to be alot better than he is. Bob was famous for what he did, but he would have been alot more famous if he had access to sports channels the way they show them today. He just didn't get the media coverage. Thanks for pointing that out to me, Don
-
:thumbsup:
-
There's been alot of "trick" shooters over the years! I remember reading article of Markworth in the '70s. He did some hunting with the star Doctor from the Show "Emergency" and traveled and hunted all over the world!
What about the Wilhem boys? Shootin, biscuits and matchboxes off of your Brother?
Bob Swinehart in the 60's and 70's did exhibition shootin with heavy bows!
I also remember reading of a young lad, also from Pennsylvania in Instinctive Archery mag, named Lucky, who was going to be the next Ferguson?
If you got it, shoot it! :goldtooth:
-
JOHN SHULTS
DICK PALMER
KRAMER"S ? DID THAY ALL USE HEAVY BOWS?
-
I use to hunt with bows in the 80 to 90# range but for exhibition shooting the bows I preferred were 60 to 70#. In this clip shooting Styrofoam cups off the top of Frisbees the bow was 60#.
http://www.tradgang.com/videos/ronlaclair/ronl-4.wmv
The aspirin shot was with a 70# bow
http://www.tradgang.com/videos/ronlaclair/ronl-7.wmv
-
Yes, Howard Hill used heavy bows, as did most of the early greats. The main reason is that they did not have fibreglas laminations and their simple bows were slow by modern standards. They needed a heavy bow to get a good trajectory.
A second reason is that for an archer who has developed the fitness to comfortably draw a heavier bow, it will tend to give a clean instant release on a mover or a flyer. You just think 'Go' and it's gone. But if you haven't developed your strength and form over a considerable period of time a heavy bow can mess you up badly. It is an expert's weapon, and a sturdy expert at that. - lbg
-
I love to see those videos of Ron shooting. If only there had been all the video cameras around then that we have today we could enjoy seeing a lot more of Ron's feats. Thanks Ron.
Allan
-
good information guys...
So it is basically just preference.
All comes back to shoot what you want to shoot. Sounds good!
-
I believe it has to do with the release. When i experimented with wheel bows I found the drop in weight made it very difficult to shoot well because my release got sloppy. I had PSE make be a 70# bow with only 20% let off...55# holding weight. That helped tremendously in improving my accuracy.
-
I think most of the long bow shots prefer a heavier weight for some reason. Stacy Groscup and I used medium weight bows.
I am far more accurate with a 45# bow than say 55#. It's a matter of strength and personal preference I suppose.
Shoot what works best for you, my two cents worth.
Shoot Straight,
Frank