Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: kevshin21 on June 20, 2010, 10:43:00 PM
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So I took a lesson in Fullerton and the instructor would not let me shoot traditional sightless. I told him that I took a lesson before at Covina without sights on the bow and did pretty decent, but he kept insisting that I use a sight. The instructor also kept insisting me to use the 3 finger method. To all the vets out there I understand using the sight, but why did they kept drilling me on doing 3 fingers under? My groupings were a lot tighter when using split finger (when the instructor was not near me :p ). Also one more question, is it legal to shoot in your own backyard? Do any of you guys do it? I understand it can be potentially dangerous if one did not take the time to secure the area. Thanks!
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Three fingers are easier to learn for some beginners. We do the same in Pasadena. However, if you feel comfortable shooting with split then I will let it go. The guy in Fullerton is probably getting commissions on the stuffs that he sells so obviously, he will sell you things that you don't need.
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Get another instructor.
A good coach will work with his client and adapt to his reqiurements
A poor coach will want you to follow a step by step cast in iron format,because that's all he knows.
The world is full of IFAA,FITA style coaches that are stuck to their organisations coaching rules,,,all they really are is form parrots,,,stay away freom people like that,their not real coaches back passages.
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I will agree with Earthdog that some FITA coaches only knows that type of shooting (I know some of them) but the basic FITA form is sound. Think of it as Kata in karate. Practice the basic moves and know when to change it to suite the shooting situation. You just need to find a coach that knows that and can adapt to the type of shooting that you want to do.
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Oh backyard shooting is illegal in most cities...
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Originally posted by Jhoneil1:
Oh backyard shooting is illegal in most cities...
Just one more reason I'm glad I live in the mid-west!
I stand out at the edge of my street and can shoot to almost 100 yards down my back yard. In fact maybe if I can remember I'll get some pictures of my range and post them.
God bless,Mudd
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mudd we shouldnt rubb it in, lol
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"I will agree with Earthdog that some FITA coaches only knows that type of shooting (I know some of them) but the basic FITA form is sound."
3 under is not common in FITA.
I agree though that if you do not have faith in your coach, then I would suggest finding another. It sounds like your current coach is using a "command" style of teaching where you might fit better with a "cooperative" or "submissive" (although I do not care for this one) style. Better coaches will know these styles and are usually able to coach in either type. I'd talk to current coach first before releaing him and if he still only wants it his way, then mutually agree to part ways.
Personally, depending on goals, 3 under or split are acceptable. If a person if having trouble keeping the arrow on the rest, then I usually suggest moving to 3 under. Some love it and stick with it especially if they shoot gap.
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Some instructors need ways to show they are in 'charge'. Find someone else, or remind him who is paying.
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I don't know what your goals in archery are, but if they're hunting I think you need to forget about sights. Use that coach for form. It's the most important part of archery. Viper just had a post here where he said that aiming is only 10% of a shot.
When it comes to split finger or "3 under" again I think it depends on your goals. With split you can shoot farther, because that arrow is farther from your eye. The gap will be a little greater and that's why you can shoot farther. What I mean is a shot at 60 to 80 yards with split fingers the arrow would be some where below the target. That same shot with 3 under you'd have to hold the point of the arrow over the target with your fist and arm covering the target. Making it pretty hard to get the L and R correct. I could be more specific if I was sure you knew what your "point of aim" is, which would change whether split or 3 under.
Bowmania
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Sounds to me like you need a coach that knows how to shoot traditional. Sights we don't need any stinking sights
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"3 under is not common in FITA. "
I am responding more to the comment of "form parrots".
kevshin21- You have seen me teach a class. It's mostly a safety class. If you want to learn different ways of shooting, just let me know. We can even move on to thumbring shooting ;)
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Jhoneil Centeno
USA Archery Member
Certified Level II Archery Instructor
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Shoot the way you feel comfortable,as long as you have good form and can make a clean kill!you will learn that what feels good is normally what works for you.
As far as back yard shooting,check the state laws and then check your own city laws for city ordinances restricting bows and arrows.They may classify a bow as a firearm in the city or state you live in.It's best to check for yourself,"But he said I could" doesn't stand up in court.
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Thank you guys for all the quick replies! I got some more questions about form but do not really want to start another topic since this one is running. On form is there a wrong way? I stand shoulder width apart and my anchor point is index finger to the cheek bone. That way I can have the point of the arrow (is that gap shooting? I am still unfamiliar with the terms) in my sights while focusing on the target. Also is shooting off the arrow rest compared to shooting off the shelf really different? Do you have to make some special adjustments or anything? Thanks guys!
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There is no right or wrong way of shooting a bow. There are efficient and inefficient ways of shooting a bow, however...but this is all relative to your body build. You want to develop a form that will minimize fatigue and injury and maximize clean arrow flight.
I don't feel there's a difference between shelf and rest shooting. I think if you stick with one you'll be able to adapt regardless of whatever aiming method you choose.
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I think you find this kind of training with groups of novice Archers, easier for the Coach to monitor progress if everybody is doing the same thing. Once you pass this basic training a good coach should work with you to develop your own shooting style.
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I don't know the instructor you are talking about but I have found that people that don't know very much about a subject feel it needs to be done "just one way". They don't know the subject well enough to allow variations to be brought into it.
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Michael, I couldn't agree more! I know more than a couple of examples of that in archery. Anyone who says "This is THE way" can't do it any other way...and probably can't do it their way very well either. Listen to what they have to say, though, and talk to others as well and pick and choose what works best for you.
As far as backyard practice, I've been trying to look for Orange County regulations and can't find anything either. Anyone from around here know what the rules are?
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Originally posted by Jhoneil1:
Oh backyard shooting is illegal in most cities...
Here in Texas it's legal at least in my part of the state.
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Being from California myself, I can pretty much assure you that shooting your bow in your backyard is illegal. That said, it's pretty low on any law enforcement priority list of things to look into, unless someone complains or you accidently shoot someone, their dog, or their car. Then it can jump up on the law-enforcement priority list real fast. Your neighbors are going to find out that you shoot the bow in your backyard, so I hope you have as good-hearted neighbors as I do, who have known for years that I shoot the bow in my backyard and don't care. Make sure your targets are well-backstopped, and I always plan my shooting for times when my neighbors are not out in their backyards, because I don't want to push that good-heartedness too much.
Obviously, if I lived in one of the more metropolitan areas of California, the rules might be different and I wouldn't be able to get away with shooting arrows in my backyard, period, but then again, that's why I don't live there.
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I instruct kids in my area, some of them have recieved a lesson or two. The only thing that I have come across that is even remotely simular is when they are taught to shoot 3 under, someone has told them it is the only way to shoot accurately. I go with the flow and do not try to change I just get them to build on that and perfect their form. I start them out shooting at the target, then a ballon in the center of the target, and finally a ping pong ball in the center of the target. They are getting good, the lady at Walmart keeps asking me why I am buying all the ballons and ping pong balls. I just smile, the kids are getting good as there a lot kids rooms that have pierced ping pong balls proudly displayed (I have seen pictures)
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Thanks, McDave. I was trying to find documentation for anything archery-related but didn't come up with anything. They want you to know the law but sure make it hard to find. I guess I'll just err on the side of caution and keep it to a minimum if at all. Fortunately, I do have great neighbors and have shot in my backyard when the itch gets real bad and they don't seem to mind.
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Do you have a basement, or make your shots relatively close.
In my neighborhood I'm not supposed to shoot my bow in my yard but to keep some practice but to err on the right side of the law I will shoot into my basement.
Inside I'll get 8 yards max which is good for BB & those short range practice.
Outside the door I can get a total of 15 yards & I'm still so close to the house that 99.9% of the time I'd hit my own house before a arrow hits anything else.
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If I shoot in my yard my target is on the ground, I have to angle down to hit it, and misses get eaten by grass. I think the most I can get in my yard is also about 15 yards. If I stand in my dining room and shoot into my indoor patio I have about 8 yards. Missing is less of an option in this case...
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Call your local county sherriff and city police departments and ask for a copy of the firearms and weapons discharge regulations for your area. They should be able to get you a copy or send you to the right website and link to find them immediately. Most counties only reference firearms discharge. Many cities will have an addendum or special note adding bow and arrows, or any projectice devices if bow shooting is banned.
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I shoot everyday in my back yard