Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: Don Batten on August 03, 2010, 09:22:00 PM
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If you came up with a way to shoot a trad bow and hit your target every time you shot at it, would you not do it because it was not socially accepted?
I see all the time on here about folks who are shooting down gap shooters, point of aim folks, intictive guys? Mostly I see it in the Trad Events forum. Some guy who shoots his way don't want to shoot against someone who shoots his way.And don't even start about the 3 under vs split stuff. What the hell? I think the most of us are bowhunters first and target shooters 2nd. Who cares if the 1st guy gaps and the 2nd guy shoots instinctive? Or even shoots his bow with his teeth? I think that anyone that gets beat or don't kill as many deer or what ever, as the next guy, needs to search his soul about what he's doing wrong instead of bashing the other guy. Sorry for the long post. I don't know much about it but just my take. I'd been better off spending this time shooting my bow. LOL Don
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Moderators, feel free to move this to PowWow. DB
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Don - I wrote a long response agreeing with you and after I read it to myself I realized that I was just being negative so I've deleted it. :)
I'll just say that I wholeheartedly concur. I get so frustrated with it. Who cares where your fingers are on the string or what you are focusing on when you shoot? If you draw the string from a given distance and hit the target I say - WELL DONE.
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:thumbsup:
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I agree Don. Having shot with you and been a friend of yours for a while now, I know that you are about as level headed as they come. Having said that, I know that you arent going to throw rocks at anyone. I dont understand what people have against trying different things that may make them a better shot ultimately. I say this having just switched to a three under purely instinctive style of shooting.....that you pretty much started me shooting(me and Jeff for that matter). If you cant run with the big dogs, stay on the porch, OR do what the big dogs are doing! Perhaps there is a reason they are doing it......Just my thoughts!
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Batman I think you hit it on the head. One thing that bothers me about "Traditional" archery is..there are those folks who if you don't do like they do you are wrong! I could careless if you gap, point, shoot instinctive, three under, split finger or whatever. The bottomline is.....no matter what your target whether it is a McKenzie deer or a breathing hairy one you must hit the spot you aim at. It doesn't matter if you are a 20 time World Champ or someone who started yesterday you can have a bad hit on animal because the animal moved. There is no room however in hunting for those who wound animals because they are bad shots regardless of what weapon they are using. We as bowhunters are more under the "microscope" of the public than Fred Bear or Howard Hill ever were.
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I think no matter what the sport/hobby is, you are always going to have folks who wants it there way or no way. No matter how hard you try to show someone something new or different, there way is the only "right" way to do it and if ya best them with it then you are surely wrong.
Dax
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Batman,
Well said! When someone outshoots me, I like to figure out what he and I are doing differetly. I then use that information to make myself better, not make excuses for why I failed.
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I agree if one person shoots well with their form I will say well done period. I see shooters all the time shoot three under and gap shoot and they shoot lights out. I wish I could but my natural and comfortable shooting form is pick a spot and let it go. Some days, I can't be beat others good but nothing special. That is part of the joy of shooting trad. I often felt stress shooting the compound because I expected a perfect shot every time. I do strive for perfection with the longbow but do so stress free. It is sort of like golf I have a 1.6 index which is really good better than probably 95% of golfers but not tour good. Enjoy and don't stress over the little stuff.
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Well said Batman :clapper:
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you can shoot more than one way? lol j/k, i think a lot of people would be better off shooting there bow more than bashing someone for not doing things there way. when it comes down to it if you aint haven fun than you probly need to find another way of life. oh yeah i agree with you.
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Very good point! If it works, use it and don't worry about what everyone thinks. If one thing worked for everyone it would kinda take the challenge element away. Figure out what works best for you and use it. Just my two cents worth.
Good Shooting!
Charlie
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Don, thank you for posting this. I have had other shooters, not here, but on other forums tell me that canting the bow does not work, because they can't see how it does. One guy is stricly a vertical shooter with a longbow, I say great if it works for him. They tell me, you can't shoot like that with any possible accuracy or repeatable etc etc etc.
My groups speak for themselves.
There are many differant styles of shooting, and if it works, it works.
I wonder if they would have told Pappa Bear, when he arched over backwards and shot his bow, that just wouldn't work.
The beat goes on..... :coffee:
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One of the reasons it took me so long to get to trad was what I perceived as an "elitist" attitude in trad shooters.
I still see it quite a bit out there. It hurts the sport. We should be above that.
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I've always felt that it is to the individule {sp} to how or what they use to aim & shoot as long as they are comfortable & can repeat the shot sequence to hit what they want.
one person suggested to me quite often that I should be shooting 3 under for instance because my point on would be right at 20 yards, well I tried it & he was right I can use the point on the X to hit at 20 yards but for the life of me I could never get the hang of shooting 3 under so I went back to split finger & kinda use a split vision aiming.
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One thing about shooting out west, if you only like to shoot with people shooting your own style, you're going to be shooting by yourself a lot!
Most of the shoots we get are mixed compound/trad shoots. The few trad guys are mixed longbow, recurve, olympic. We don't even ask how they shoot their bows (well, one guy complains when people shoot carbon arrows out of longbows, but we ignore him).
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I think it's obvious the way I shoot is the only right way, and I am the only one who understands how to do it.
Great post. If your way works, do it. The guys who are most vocal about style are probably still trying to get it right.
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Just enjoy is what I say.
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I could care less how a fella shoots. I`ve been doing this a while and always "try" different stuff. I usually go back to "my" way. It seems to work for me.
My hunting Buddy Chris and I shoot completely different styles and have never even brought up his way or my way being "the" way. We both have fun and enjoy the hunt.Thats what its about to me.RC
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all i can say is :what is the point of using a weapon,if you are ineffective with it ? what would you prefer to do if you "HAD " to feed your family with your sucessfull use of that weapon or even defend your family .
i think if we were so picky as to what our aiming method or shooting style, many of us would not servive .
i feel that the result is far greater important than the method of sucess.
ive seen many people shoot many different styles and equiptment . the best shooters are good shooters no matter what thier equiptment in many different styles of shooting.
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As long as your shooting a stick with a string, no sights, wheels, or release, I'm happy.
Don't care what method of aiming you use or how you hold the string. I only care how I aim and hold the string. I'm going to use what works best for me, and fully expect you to do the same. As long as that doesn't involve gadgets we're good.
I don't attend many 3d shoots, and never do any other type of target events. But when I do shoot 3d I'm watching where the other guys arrow goes, not the form they use to get it there.
:archer:
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bawana bowman wrote: "As long as your shooting a stick with a string, no sights, wheels, or release, I'm happy."
I think that statement goes to the reason for the thread. Why some folks are concerned with others choices might make for an even more interesting discussion, or... is this that discussion? :^)
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I shoot and hunt with about 10 other knuckleheads and we all shoot a little different, snapshooters,gap shooters, clickers,3 under, split, just about everything.No one style/form is really better. Some just shoot a little better than others, somedays a person may be on fire and just drilling every shot, other days we are looking for arrows. We have noticed that the people that really need that high score or to always be top dog usually dont last in trad and go back to wheels. I guess its not as fun if you have scorecard OCD. The rest of us just keep shooting.
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:thumbsup: :clapper:
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The people who complain about another shooters methods are the ones who still don't get what trad is all about.
Shoot what you want how you want, and always remember to enjoy the process.
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I must say I've been pretty lucky in my 6 months of traditional archery. I really enjoy 3D shoots & have been to a few. My experience so far has been very good, all other trad shooters I've met have been great, very helpful with no negativity so far. Even the compound guy's have been nice.
I shoot the way I shoot because that's what works for me. I modeled my style after a fellow trad shooter I met when I started out, he is a good shot & an amazing hunter, he is now one of my best friends & that's what's most important to me, not how the guy beside me shoots. :archer2:
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You got it Batman....I have tried pretty much every aiming/release form out there. I can't say that I my for is just like anyone else's that I know of, but I have figured out what works well for me and stick with it.
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Originally posted by Jim Casto Jr:
bawana bowman wrote: "As long as your shooting a stick with a string, no sights, wheels, or release, I'm happy."
I think that statement goes to the reason for the thread. Why some folks are concerned with others choices might make for an even more interesting discussion, or... is this that the discussion? :^)
Jim
You hit it on the head - who cares what they shoot. Stick-wheelie-gun it is a personal choice - shoot what you brought the way you want to shoot it and shut up.
Matt
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I was having some problems with arrow flight. I was searching for help. Batman offerred to send me some arrows to try. He didn't ask HOW I shot, he just wanted to help me shoot better. He has invited me to shoot with him someday. He never asked WHAT my method is. I have switched from split to 3 under. I don't care if that would change my "CLASS" of shooting. I did it for me. When I shoot against someone else it is still me , my method, and the time and practice I put into that determines whether I shoot better then the other fellas. I try to set a standard of competence for myself, if I don't reach that I'm unhappy with myself. If I beat someone else or not it is immaterial. Although I do like to win once in awhile. Some people just need to shoot by themselves so they will always be the best on the target, or in the woods.
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I am of the opinion that as outdoorsman as long as it is a legal form of hunting we should be supportive of it. I think we should do all we can to unite and promote our passion for hunting in God’s Majestic creation. I will shoot any kind of bow, recurve, long, compound, even a crossbow. However you want to hunt is ok with me. The important part in my mind is that you do what you do because you enjoy it, and not to please someone else. I have never understood all of the venom that people spew just because everyone does not do it their way. Everyone is not like me, and for that I am thankful.
So in a nutshell however you hunt, as long as it is legal, I am on your side.
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if it works do it. I could care less how you get there. I shoot because I enjoy it and if I could score 100% I would.
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Years ago a lot of clubs would not allow 3 under because they were so afraid that a good string- walker would come in and win. Wood arrows with 125gr points. Mostly it was a big fish in a little pond (and his buddies)trying to eleminate the competition. I know some of the older guys remember those days............James
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JamesV those days are still here.
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Me personally, I could care less, as long as I can shoot and hit my target more acurately. I don't care if its gap, instinct, walking or like someday may have to even go back to pins. The most important thing is to have the ethics and be able to hit what we aim at, when comes to hunting, if that means I go back to compound for the better of the critter then so be it.
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One thing though, hunting success does NOT equal shooting success. Equating the 2 is not fair. Some guys have many more opportunities be it thru large bag limits or excellent hunting ground and their success chances are much higher. I know, I haven't even shot an arrow at a deer for the last 2 years, yet I feel I can hold mine own as an archery deer hunter.
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I wonder if anyone knows if they gap shot, etc. hundreds of years ago? I mean....nobody cared as long as food was on the table. That's what I think of it. Have fun and enjoy the sport!
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I tried all the styles i read and hear about. After 10 years of experience i always trying new influences. But i keep only things which helps me to shot better. But i have had a time with a combination (release,anchor..) i could hit a target from the size of a golf ball at 10 yards every time and i know i hit it before i released the arrow, you know this days. I always want to have this time again but never reached it again. It is something in the mind, not the style i think.
But some stuff other people are found of, absolutely do not work for me. So let them have their style and i am working on my style. Does not bother me anymore.
Gundog
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Already been a ton of good things said so all I got is this: I don't hunt or shoot my bow for anyone else but me. I consider myself to be too ethical with my shots(thats why I don't get many)and too rule concious. If someone says the way I shoot is against their rules I pedal on down the road, if my bow doesn't fit their mold, I go on down the road. I try to remain open minded so if I see something being done different and it is successful then I try it, who knows, maybe I can pick up something good. But if it doesn't work for me, oh well, I will stick with what does. To each his own! To me, it is all about good clean fellowship, friendship and good ethical huntin. Nough said!
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The ONLY reason I shoot trad is because it is so much fun. Were I concerned with golf-ball sized groups at long distances, then I'd shoot a wheelie (which I did for awhile and hated it!), and were I concerned with killing something every time I went hunting, then I'd shoot a .270. I never tire of shooting my recurves, even if it's out in the yard or after jackrabbits. If I start shooting 3D, it'll not be to win...it'll be to make myself a better hunter and to have fun. If it isn't fun, I won't do it. I guess that includes the company, too!
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I think everyone gap shoots to some degree. The rhythm and acknowledgment of the arrow position in the field of view is the biggest difference. Obviously, three under shooters can see the in their field of view, that is why they prefer it, whether they acknowledge the arrow or not. I have noticed that when shooting with someone that takes a long time to shoot and I am shooting very fast, it can cause frustration for the long aimers. They can get out of their rhythm. But of course, if someone is flinching and the guy with the long hold and solid aim is always centering the target, it can get the nerves of the one who is fighting the flinch. I have been on both sides of that fence, myself. When my form is solid and someone else is getting frustrated with their shooting, I would much rather quit shooting and help the other guy work on his form. It is more fun when everyone is enjoying themselves, who really cares all that much about competition and beating the other guy anyway, if they are having problems? Now, if everyone is happy with their shooting and there is challenge, like the looser buys the burger and soda at the end of the round. I will pull out all of the stops to get that free burger and coke.
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i shoot with a clicker and have for a while now. i do o.k. with it. i love the 3-d shoots and have a problem with the home organization and cant use it at our state shoot...no big deal. i use it with no problems everywhere else.
that said, right now i am having the worst time shooting i have ever had and am at the point of just giving up and going in reverse. i really love the trad bows but i am in a slump that i cant seem to pull out of. i have been shooting a recurve for a while now and shooting a longbow now..this may be the problem. may be overbowed. i am also busting my face open when i shoot..and that is getting old and painful, not to mention the blood that flies everywhere when i release!
i know a problem solver that i am confident i could shoot with and be better than ever..a release. i would not need the clicker anymore. i know i would not be accpeted in the trad world ever again..and as much as i love the 3-d shoots, that would suck. i wouldnt care hunting. i just know i would catch a lot of crap and really dont want to try it for that..and i know i would do a 360 with my shooting and would not want to change.
so no, i dont guess i would swallow my pride just yet..if i get any worse, then i may or drop it all and go back where i came from
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I'm socially unexceptable anyhow,lol. When everone went to compounds in the 70's I stuck with stickbows cause it worked so I saw no reason to change. I shoot however I feel like shooting. If I hurt a finger or something that maybe be 3 under or even 2 under. Whatever allows me to keep shooting. Personally thats why I don't like that "trad" word. It is used sometimes to beat people up over whether or not what they shoot or how they shoot is "trad". Shoot what and how you want n above all, enjoy!
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Good stuff folks. Fountain, If you shoot better with a release, who cares. I know a guy in your neck of the woods who shoots stickbows that way. He has some type of nerve damage in his fingers and can shoot no other way. I'd shoot one too , but when I shot wheels I always would get in my stand and my release would be on the dash of my truck. No worries about a release for better accuracy in my book. Don
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Just shoot man! If your arrows fly straight and hit where you look (or aim), have fun & don't worry about what others think.
Watching arrows fly is pure and simple fun.
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I wonder if the people who think everyone should shoot the same way if the guys that shoot differently than they do were out in the woods wounding animals so they could shoot the "right" way. Ultimatly, isn't that what we all strive for, quick clean kills on an animal?
Point being, if they weren't complaining about how someone else shoots they'd complain because they were wounding animals, I'm so sick of people like that. They'd complain cause their ice cream is cold.
I don't know maybe I'd feel differently if I were a serious competition shooter.