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Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: Rossco7002 on August 19, 2010, 04:30:00 PM

Title: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: Rossco7002 on August 19, 2010, 04:30:00 PM
If shooting 3 under is it required that you have two nocking points - 1 under and 1 above the arrow?

Thanks,
Ross
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: on August 19, 2010, 04:43:00 PM
Is it required?  No.

Watch these two clips and see if you think it would be helpful.

  http://picasaweb.google.com/mtravis58/AVIs#5440061375576120818
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: Rossco7002 on August 19, 2010, 05:28:00 PM
Point well illustrated. Let's give it a try to see if it tightens up my consistency....
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: Red Tailed Hawk on August 22, 2010, 09:57:00 AM
Maybe i should add a nock
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: TexasTrad on August 22, 2010, 12:15:00 PM
Great clip Jim.  I always shoot a little lower when I add a nock below my arrow.  Now I know why.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: Rossco7002 on August 22, 2010, 12:37:00 PM
I doubt if it's connected but I've had two string servings unravel since i set up a second nock. Any thoughts?
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: dragon rider on August 22, 2010, 10:43:00 PM
Are you using metal nock points?  If so tie the lower nock on. That should avoid any cutting that the metal might be doing.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: DBinAlamo on August 23, 2010, 10:09:00 PM
Thanks for the clips Jim, I'll try a nock set below.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: WRV on August 30, 2010, 10:54:00 AM
Yes. Thanks for the clips.....Randy
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: Ravenhood on August 30, 2010, 12:27:00 PM
I use a small piece of athletic tape for my under nock, never had a problem.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: scriv on August 31, 2010, 07:20:00 PM
For those tying on nocks, BCY makes a special thread for it.  Me, I just use some dental floss and then super glue to harden it.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: Red Tailed Hawk on August 31, 2010, 07:25:00 PM
I added a nock and did find it to help tighten up groups.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: ishoot4thrills on September 01, 2010, 08:35:00 PM
Thanks Jim Casto Jr. I watched the video clips and learned that I need to add another nock under my arrow nock. Then, I went outside and shot my bow and I saw an improvement in my consistency right away. I also learned that I can grasp the string right below the bottom nock, instead of up against the arrow nock, and my point on distance is reduced from 27 yards to about 23 yards. That could help for hunting at more ideal ranges.

Thanks!
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: Johnny UMAA on September 05, 2010, 12:19:00 AM
I'm not sure that this proves anything at this point, IMO.

Two different gloves used and it appears to be two different anchor points and two different releases (though both are 3 under)
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: on September 05, 2010, 03:49:00 PM
Curious... what is not being proved at this point?
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: ishoot4thrills on September 06, 2010, 10:07:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Johnny UMAA:
I'm not sure that this proves anything at this point, IMO.

Two different gloves used and it appears to be two different anchor points and two different releases (though both are 3 under)
Looks to me like it proves that the arrow drops down the string at release, even when using different gloves, different releases, and different anchor points. IMO, that's proof enough to me that I should've tried two nocks a long time ago!
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: GREATBROWNKNOCKEMDOWN on September 06, 2010, 07:06:00 PM
Thanks Mr. Casto,  i tied an extra nock on my three longbows and it has tightened up my groups, it's working well.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: on September 06, 2010, 09:13:00 PM
I’m glad some of you are finding positive results from the second nock set.

  Years ago I made a string with two less strands so the serving was a tad smaller in diameter.  While shooting in the string I noticed that once in a while I would have an arrow fly high; not every time—just sometimes.  I thought perhaps it was slipping down the narrow serving, so I added another nock set—problem solved.  I’ve been doing it ever since.  


Good luck to all of you this season.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: Steve D on September 07, 2010, 10:25:00 AM
Thanks Jim,as they say  picture is worth a thousand words, especially  when on video!Have a good upcoming season.
Take care.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: Larry m on September 07, 2010, 10:07:00 PM
Thanks for posting this Jim. A real eye opener with a quick fix.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: azhunter on September 25, 2010, 08:32:00 PM
I went to 3 under a few months ago and shot without a second string nock and then when I added a second nock under my arrow my groups instantly became tighter. I also like being able to put my tab right under the second nock.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on September 25, 2010, 10:50:00 PM
I have a hard nock above and an eliminator button below and have always done it this way and have always shot 2 under. I mainly started doing it because without the rubber cushion between my index finger and the arrow nock, sometimes I would pinch the nock with my finger tab and cause the arrow to fall off the shelf. The elimator button below the nock solved that problem and after watching those 2 videos, it seems that it solved more than that?
Thanks Jim, Good stuff there.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: Huntschool on September 28, 2010, 12:02:00 PM
Another thing you might consider is your release style.  I have shot 3 under for years, and I mean years.  About ten years ago a really good archer, competition type, told me my release was a bit sloppy and could be causing some problems.

Here is the deal, and again watch that vid, I was allowing my fingers to come away from the string at a somewhat right angle....

He suggested drawing to anchor and then continuing to draw until the string left my fingers.  Its kinda like hitting the anchor and making the string weight take the string away from you.  Its almost not a conscious move.

It took a great deal of practice on my part but it helped eliminate some "flyers".  I hold a normal "hook" with my fingers so if I screw this up I can tell by the "twang" in my string.

Thats a great vid.  I have tied in "below nocks" for a long time.  They make a ton of performance difference.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: Roy from Pa on October 01, 2010, 08:56:00 PM
The point is, without a nock under the arrow, the arrow sometimes slides down the string as it moves forward. Great videos, thanks.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: kenn1320 on October 01, 2010, 10:41:00 PM
I found the need for a second nock while paper tuning last year. I could not get the bow to tune without it. I was using pinch on nocks and when I was done, I tied on nocks. Well funny I put the top nock right were the pinch nock was, as I felt that was the most important of the nocks. The lower nock was tied to leave some "room" so as not to pinch the arrow. I left about 1/8", which in reality was likely by mistake that it was that big. After seeing these videos I went back and retied the bottom nock closer to the arrow. Its not binding it, but its very friendly with it. I feel I can tell a difference from removing that 1/8" of slop. Glad this post caught my eye.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: Terry Green on October 04, 2010, 08:55:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Johnny UMAA:
I'm not sure that this proves anything at this point, IMO.

Two different gloves used and it appears to be two different anchor points and two different releases (though both are 3 under)
Two nocking points have been around for a long time...its not a 'new revelation', ....nor just 'invented' by someone.

It makes no difference in 2 or 3 under either....it prevents what others have seen in earlier videos other folks filmed .......no matter if shooting split or 3 under.

Several things can cause this...arrow nock/string fit/string angle/release style/string torque....

The only real disadvantage is speed in nocking an arrow in the heat of the moment when in the field.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: Ravenhood on October 04, 2010, 11:17:00 AM
Well said Terry.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: otter64 on December 11, 2010, 11:23:00 AM
That was a very interesting video.I'll be adding a second nock set.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: bowgy on December 11, 2010, 11:39:00 AM
a second nocking point ( I just used some dental floss ) helped my accuracy and arrow flight
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: JrsyBowHunter on December 11, 2010, 12:22:00 PM
i'am gonna try the 2nd nock under,i just started shooting 3 under and my groups improved alot, so i will see if a nock under helps more
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: Green on December 11, 2010, 01:48:00 PM
3 under wasn't for me....just personal preference I guess, when I switched back I removed the bottom nock (crimp on).  My groups have gotten consistently better since studying Terry's form and realizing that I shouldn't work on my release, but just keep pulling my elbow around with back tension and allowing the string to slip from the fingers.  All that said, I get the occasional high flyer....I think I'll put that second nock back on and see if that helps.  If it does, then I'll tie one in it's place as I'm sure that shooting split with a bottom nock is going to tear up a glove or two.  My main point here is THANKS to Terry and all the members for their written, photo'd, and video'd advice....been out of it for 10 years and this wealth of knowledge/advice has already taken months off the re-learning curve.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: George Vernon on December 11, 2010, 01:52:00 PM
Slippage of the arrow nock can occur with any shooting grip as Terry points out.  However, it is more likely with three under since the string directly pushes the nock down while moving the arrow forward.  Split finger can 'shield' the nock just a bit from direct impact.

Shooters using releases that grip the string from below, really have problems without the second nocking point.  

My thanks to Jim Castro for the video clip reference.

Wonder how many other such questions could be easily answered with good high speed video.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: Richie on December 12, 2010, 10:33:00 PM
After watching the videos I added a second nock and my groups are better.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: 3Bears on December 17, 2010, 07:29:00 AM
Thanks for the video.Since my groups are better than ever.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: Robert Honaker on December 18, 2010, 12:12:00 PM
I added a second nock and noticed my bottom nock kept sliding down the string. Also..my arrow nock was taking a beating...deep grooves in it.
Figured string angle was pinching my nock between the nocks, so I removed the top string nock.

Suprisingly no difference. String nock still gets pushed down the strung and damage to arrow nock, but not as bad.

I now shoot with one nock below my arrow.  

Also during this found that a tight nock is not a problem and that a loose nock can be.  I use to sand out my nocks for a looser fit on the string = all kinds of problems.  I now want my nock to pop onto the string. I have found no speed loss this way and have achieved great consistantsy.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: olddogrib on December 18, 2010, 12:35:00 PM
My experience has also shown a tendency for the lower knock to get "pushed" down the string.  However all my nocking points are tied on with used bowstring strands and/or floss and I don't see any nock damage.  I shoot 3 under and can only assume the angle of the bow string in relation to the nock at full draw is a bit more pronounced than with split release which would tend to "square up" the string in the nock groove.  If I tie the lower point right below the arrow nock it will quickly create about a 1/16th inch excess gap, but does not widen.  I assume the arrow could slip this much, but I still use them as I also assume it keeps slippage to a minimum.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: Buckskin57 on January 23, 2011, 06:12:00 PM
Great clip ,thanks.II'll be be wrapping some floss.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: HUNT 24/7 on January 29, 2011, 08:32:00 PM
Can I use 2 brass nocking points??? I don't know how to tie on nocks & don't have anything to do it with.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: HUNT 24/7 on January 30, 2011, 11:08:00 AM
Anyone???????
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: AKCrazyhorse on January 30, 2011, 11:46:00 AM
yes you can.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: on January 30, 2011, 12:55:00 PM
Sure you can, but sometimes they can foul the nock, or even the string.  I'm sure you've got some dental floss in the house--might just use it.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: HUNT 24/7 on January 30, 2011, 03:03:00 PM
I do have dental floss, just not sure how to tie on a nock.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: on January 30, 2011, 08:07:00 PM
Take a look at this.  It may help some.

 http://www.backcountrybowhunting.com/articles/nock.php
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: AKmud on January 30, 2011, 09:50:00 PM
I use two brass nocks and haven't had any problems.  Adding the second nock tightened up my groups considerably while shooting 3-under.  My tab has a nice groove in it where I index it against the lower nock for every shot as well.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: HUNT 24/7 on January 30, 2011, 10:03:00 PM
Excellent, thanks.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: Bruce Martin on February 01, 2011, 07:27:00 PM
Decided to give it a try and it did indeed improve my groups substantially. I will now tie on 2 nock points from now on. Thanks so much for the video. I believe it does make a substantial difference.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: sawtoothscream on February 02, 2011, 09:46:00 PM
think ill give it a shot tomorrow and see if it helps any. why not? actually ill give try it now haha.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: sawtoothscream on February 02, 2011, 10:13:00 PM
k i just got done shooting a few groups and WOW huge improvment. i only was shooting 10 yds but the arrows were smacking eachother in the target. 3 hs ago it wasnt doing that at all.  ill be doing 2 nock points on all my bows now.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: Steven_CO on February 03, 2011, 01:34:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Jim Casto Jr:
Is it required?  No.

Watch these two clips and see if you think it would be helpful.

   http://picasaweb.google.com/mtravis58/AVIs#5440061375576120818  
Pretty conclusive  in that video.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: HUNT 24/7 on February 03, 2011, 01:39:00 PM
I just used 2 brass nocks & it worked great!!!
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: shoothathang on February 03, 2011, 05:21:00 PM
OK I'm convinced. I just added another nock to both of my bows but gonna wait til later to try it out.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: ncsaknech1ydh on February 05, 2011, 03:39:00 AM
I'm for sure gonna try a nock under asap! Also will try the elminator button and/or floss & sglue on bottom nock. Thanks for the info guys! DK.
Title: Re: 2 nocking points for 3 under question
Post by: Lumpytradshooter on February 06, 2011, 10:26:00 PM
Not required but reccomend it. on longer length bow your arrow can side down while moving forward.