Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: bowkevin on February 28, 2011, 11:10:00 AM
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I'm sure this has been asked before but do you guys shoot instinctive or utilize some type of aiming sysytem and if so what type ( gap, string walk,etc.)
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Instinctive for me. I've tried gapping and just can't get a picture of the point. I think there are definitely times where gap would be preferred for me. Just can't get it.
Good luck
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At anything living I shoot instinctive as I understand it. Focus on the spot, draw, anchor & release. 25 yards or closer.
At stumps and targets from 25 to 35 I focus higher on the target. Second guess method or something, maybe. Some days it works great. Others not so.
My point-on distance is 65 yards.
When shooting long distance at targets I use a point-of-aim method holding on an imaginary spot over the target based on my point-on.
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instinctive
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Gotta find what works best for you.
Instinctive is aiming....subconscious aiming.
Best of luck to you finding the best way for you to will your arrows to your target.
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I shoot instinctive out to about 25 yards.Beyond that I have to gap shoot
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Instinctive for me, but find what works for you and go with that cause we are all differant.
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Ive been shooting instinctive but have heard alot of pluses of the others. I've had some inconsistencies and thought using another method might help.I tried gapping but couldnt get used to not having the point on the target. Tried string walking and it seemed like I could adapt to it easily but I wasnt comfortable. Im goin to keep working on my form, get some patience and continue on my instinctive shooting. It's just some days I get frustrated. I shoot great out to 20 yds and the next day I go out and cant hold a group at 10. I know it's me and I just have to work harder. I just started into trad 1 month ago so I have aways to go.
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Instinctive only I'm right handed left eye dominate and it's the only way I can comfortably shoot. I use it at all distances it just requires practice.
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I'm new to the board here, but was wondering if someone could give a brief explanation on gap shooting for me?
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"Instinctive" gap
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Chromebuck, gap shooting is an aiming method using the point of the arrow. First, you find your "point-on" distance, which is the distance at which you can place the point of the arrow on the spot you want to hit and the arrow will hit that spot. For me, it is about 40 yards. Then you shoot at other distances, and find where you have to place the point of the arrow to hit your target. For example, I have to place the arrow point about a yard above the target at 50 yards in order to hit the target. If you want to use gap at distances under your point-on (I don't; I use instinctive for closer distances) you have to find out how far under the spot you have to place your arrow point in order to hit it.
It is critically important that you maintain your focus on the target at all times; the arrow point will be blurred in your peripheral vision.
Your gaps may change as you change arrows or arrow length, so may have to be recalibrated some.
There are two kinds of gap shooters: one actually measures the gap (1 yard above the spot at 50 yards); the other just notices the gap and doesn't associate a particular gap with a particular yardage. Over time, they are able to set their gap without knowing the actual yardage or gap (could this be called "instinctive gap?" I dunno). Howard Hill shot this way.
Some very good shooters, like Rick Welch, state that they are instinctive shooters, but also state that it is very important to be aware of your sight picture in your peripheral vision. The sight picture includes the arrow point, the sight window, and whatever else you might see in your peripheral vision, such as part of your bow hand. To me, this awareness of the sight picture makes this form of aiming very similar to Howard Hill's method, and Howard said he was not an instinctive shooter. So sometimes the distinctions can get blurred.
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I also shoot "instictigap".
Chromebuck here's the way I understand the 3 main types of shooting barebow: Instinctive is not paying attention to the arrow, boring a "hole" into the target with concentration and your mind takes over your hands, like throwing a baseball. Point of Aim shooting is picking a spot at the target to put your point on. This will be below the spot you want to hit until you get out to your "point on" yardage (where you can hold the point of the arrow right on the spot you want to hit). Gap shooting is similar to point of aim in that you pay attention to the arrow but you know your correct gap at the arrow instead of at the target. For example: At 20 yds., my point of aim is 20" low and my gap is 1" low. So at 20 yds. if I put the point of my arrow on a spot 20" below the point I want to hit, at the arrow, the gap between those 2 points is 1". Hope that makes sense.
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I would have an instinctive gap aiming method, as well. Both of your responses were "spot-on" and understandable. Thanks much.
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Subconscious gap, or instinctive.
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We all "aim" (in some fashion), use whatever method works best for YOU!
I think gap, POA, etc., all will become "instinctive" after many, many shooting sessions at varying distances, angles, & elevations. JMHO (McDave's explanations, as always, are spot on!)
Keith
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I am basically brand new to this style of shooting (trad). I want so bad to shoot, what I believe to be "instinctive". I want the bow to become part of me. Just like throwing a ball or shooting a basketball. I want to look at a spot and send the arrow there. I may be asking a lot of myself but I am going to give it my best shot. (pun intended).
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Two Wolves, this is the same thing Im trying to achieve.
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I would say that McDave hit the nail-on-the-head for me. That is, "Instinctive gap - Howard Hill" method. In my peripheral vision, I notice my arrow point for left and right. But, I don't consciously set any gap vertically. Just instinctively feel what is right and shoot.
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Two Wolves & bowkevin, I don't quite have a year in yet & I can personally assure you that if you put the time in practicing, you will be shooting where youre looking in no time.
There is no better feeling than when you start to "get it"
pick a spot, & watch the arrow fly into that spot!!!
I'm addicted to it!!!!!!
Good luck guys :thumbsup:
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I had to put down the bow for about 6 months in the middle of trying to "perfect" my gap shooting method that I learned from Bob Wesley. When I walked out with my bow a few weeks ago and after a bit of warm up from up close (just getting used to the weight of my bow again) I managed a pretty reasonable score from the first shot on. I just remembered to indirectly find my gap and keep the form tips I picked up from Terry and many others and kept pulling until release. I expect one day, with enough consistent practice this will become instinctive, at this point though I still have to think about it.
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I refer to my style as subconscious aiming. I focus on the spot I want to hit and let my subconscious do the aiming. Most would call this instictive, but that term has always bothered me from a logical standpoint. The only instictive shot you have ever taken was your first. Every shot after that is based on the data your mind has gathered on previous shots wether you are implementing that consciously or subconsciously. Which is a learned process not instict. It's not that big of deal, just a matter of terminology. But, as stated before you should try them all and find what works best for you.
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Since I read Byron's book, "Become the Arrow" some years ago, my shooting improved dramatically in a very short time. I applied the method he describes in his book and it worked very well for me. I anchor with my arrow directly below my dominant eye and see my arrow point but it isn't in sharp focus because I focus the target instead. My arrow point is always "fuzzy" looking(because it's out of focus) but I am aware of the amount of gap that's between the arrow point and the object I want to hit. When I'm at 27 yards from my intended target, my arrow point is right on the center of the target. That is known as my "point on" distance. Anything under 27 yards and my arrow point is below my target.
This has worked very well for me when shooting 3D and has also worked great for me when hunting too.
:thumbsup:
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Bubinga....the terminology has been taken out of context for years....started by folks that didn't shoot instinctive.
This style of shooting was never meant to refer to the literal meaning of the word instinctive.....but intent was that this style of subconscious aiming seemed 'instinctive like'.
Now you can rest easier knowing the term was OK all along, just non-instinctors implying it wrong that's all :campfire:
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Well....if i understand you right Terry you dont think someone can shoot truly instinctive, that some way or anther you aim well i hate to brake it to you that that is not true at all. What kind of shooting style would you call it if someone was to shoot a candlewick in a pitch black room? well i tell you what he isnt using a sight method because thats not visible in a black room. Then that means he is truly a instinctive shooter.
I mean know disrespect to you or anyone else.
God bless.
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Originally posted by SaMbO2:
Well....if i understand you right Terry you dont think someone can shoot truly instinctive, that some way or anther you aim well i hate to brake it to you that that is not true at all. What kind of shooting style would you call it if someone was to shoot a candlewick in a pitch black room? well i tell you what he isnt using a sight method because thats not visible in a black room. Then that means he is truly a instinctive shooter.
I mean know disrespect to you or anyone else.
Try shooting at a laser dot in a 100% pitch black room, although dim, a candle still does put out enough light to see your arrow silhouette a bit.
I promise you, your groups will be bigger in the dark than in the light.
God bless.
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Instigap--I like that. That's what Ferguson meant by becoming the arrow, learning the gap then forgetting it when it becomes automatic. I'm slowly getting there after coming around the hard way. I was a pure "bore a hole in it" shooter for many years, and got pretty good until I was about ruined by a tournament style teacher. When I finally got over all those bad habits, it was back to boring a hole until I studied Hill and Ferguson. They got me thinking...then I discovered Howard Hill Bowmwnen, and followed Captain Dick's adventures at Bob Westley's school, and his great follow-up postings. This winter in the shop I've made big progress in seeing the gap, along with my blind bale work. Now it just seems instinctive to be aware of the whole sight picture at the moment of release. It's made the first really big improvement in my shooting in many years.
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I'm with Bubinga, subconcience aiming till around 40 yards then it's more of a gap aiming since I see the arrow in my view beyond that range.
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When i can get some fool to toss coins for me, out to 12 yards, I don't know what I am doing. When i take long shots, I try real hard to visualize the flight of the arrow. Then when i did it right, I try to remember what it all looked like, sort of. But when it is point on or beyond and that point is just sitting there in front of me, you bet, I am aiming, even that gets automatic too quick for me some times.
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I'm posting the link of this video on the perceived differences betweem aiming & shooting instinctive, to hopefully help folks who are unsure of the difference. I realize this is one man's opinion, but this just may help someone here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP27RDLHe5A
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Bore a hole, subconsious aiming/instinctive for me, that's just what has always worked for myself. Practice practice
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Originally posted by SaMbO2:
Well....if i understand you right Terry you dont think someone can shoot truly instinctive, that some way or anther you aim well i hate to brake it to you that that is not true at all. What kind of shooting style would you call it if someone was to shoot a candlewick in a pitch black room? well i tell you what he isnt using a sight method because thats not visible in a black room. Then that means he is truly a instinctive shooter.
I mean know disrespect to you or anyone else.
God bless.
I would call that instinctive....I think you misunderstood what I said. Some folks misunderstand the terminology...or the real meaning of instinctive shooting.
I shoot instinctive BTW.
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Shooting the flame off the candle is great fun at night. My boys and i do it from time to time and shoot one at a time standing in a line with one shot a piece till someone nocks out the flame.
It doesn't take but a couple of shots before one of us hits it.
Never tried the laser dot in the dark, but i don't think it would be hard to hit the dot or close to it.
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We are all born with an instinct to judge distances, trajectories and velocities. Otherwise we wouldn't be able to throw balls as toddlers. But we hone these skills over time to participate in various sports and life skills, one of which is archery.
I just read a small book on field archery written in 1956 written by a several time Texas field archery state champion and it delved heavily on instinctive shooting. Although the information was a little dated the prinicples were the same which I found interesting.
He describes instinctive aiming as focusing entirely on the target but he uses the arrow in his peripheral vision as a secondary reference before the shot. He doesn't look down at the arrow but is aware of it below his eye and he has a typical high anchor split finger style of shooting we use today.