Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: hawker on March 15, 2011, 10:30:00 PM
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Can anyone give a few suggestions for practice? I'm looking for away to spice up my shooting drills and enjoy tring new things. I shoot indoor and outdoors.
Thanks
Luke
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For indoor,using a rubber blunt with some sort of curtin as back stop,I hook a ball on a light dog leach so when I hit the ball, it's throwned away.(I use colored plastic ball you find in kids playground).I can also give the ball balancing movement.Hope this can give ideas. Good shoonting and have fun.
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Get some judo points and go for a walk in the woods. Just take shoots at stumps, dirt clods, pine cones, what ever. Great fun and practice.
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If you're perfect when you pracice . . . would you need to practice? ;)
I bring a Deer 3-D indoors in the winter and can get 20 yards at it.
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Perfect practice, means perfect shooting....
This refers to practicing the individual processes that make up an archery shot, never shooting a shot that skips a process, allows a process to be incomplete or accepts a process that is faulty.. This is much like the check list a pilot would use before a takeoff or landing.
For instance; tonight I worked for an hour on the feeling of pulling through the shot and my follow thru...
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i bought some hex heads and place bottles all over my yard. hit them and they really launch. also fun to kick a ball and shoot it on the go. stump shooting is always fun to do as well as shooting 3d targets. i have to buy one for my house.
i also made some heads made from a old broad head furrel and guitar strings and shoot flying jap bettles in the summer, alot more fun then you would think haha
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Javi really nailed it. Rod Jenkins said that probably 90% don't shoot with a "check list" or I call it a sequence. Makes your form the same every shot. Pretty much eliminates the "I'm having an off day" comment.
Anyone interested in a "Shoot Along" on how to incorporate the sequence into your form send an email to [email protected].
Bowmania
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I guess I have two methods of practice. one is about form. I try not to worry too much about where I'm hitting but working on my shot sequence and the "feel" for the shot. I see this as similar to shooting free throws over and over while focusing on the small details of my shot but not getting too worried about how many I make. The second is trying to work on aim and various ranges. I usually do this with stump shooting (or here in Texas, cow chips). I try to get out of my head when doing this (very hard for me to do)and let the form I've been working on take care of itself. This is like practicing "game situations" shots where you don't focus on form but just let it take over. Hope this helps.
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IMHO, keep practice fun & it'll be retained benefit. Some folks (me) can't shoot range targets w/o getting bored. "Bored" is a waste of time doing more harm than help. 15-20 shots every other day at 15 yards is enough for me (muscle tone only). Rather hit the Stumpshoot Trail for inconsistent distances & shooting dimensions. Now that's always fun exploding pine cones, anthills, & various other dirage (deerage as in mirage).
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Practice is fun when you put effort into it and see results. If you view it as a waste of time or "not fun" then you won't be putting your all into it and the results will reflect this.
I like to mix up things. I practice by blind bale shooting and working on one aspect of my shot sequence that is "less than" what it should be. Then I will shoot "for fun" all the while being mindful to incorporate what I had been working on. I guess what is fun for some is different than for others.
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Originally posted by straitera:
IMHO, keep practice fun & it'll be retained benefit. Some folks (me) can't shoot range targets w/o getting bored. "Bored" is a waste of time doing more harm than help. 15-20 shots every other day at 15 yards is enough for me (muscle tone only). Rather hit the Stumpshoot Trail for inconsistent distances & shooting dimensions. Now that's always fun exploding pine cones, anthills, & various other dirage (deerage as in mirage).
Originally posted by snag:
Practice is fun when you put effort into it and see results. If you view it as a waste of time or "not fun" then you won't be putting your all into it and the results will reflect this.
I like to mix up things. I practice by blind bale shooting and working on one aspect of my shot sequence that is "less than" what it should be. Then I will shoot "for fun" all the while being mindful to incorporate what I had been working on. I guess what is fun for some is different than for others.
Both of you are correct...
I coach several compound archers who compete on a national level in 3D, Indoor and field/FITA events and there are those who will be very successful at 3D but lag behind the top at Indoor or field/FITA and those who will suck at 3D but compete among the best at games which require a high degree of repetition and long periods of intense focus to detail..
Neither is wrong, but man oh man do I enjoy it when I meet the occasional student who can put it all together and focus on the entire process and can enjoy the randomness of 3D...
As for me, I enjoy the complexity of the shot process and training to make each shot no matter the terrain,target or stance required, exactly the same as the last one... Putting all my arrows into the same hole is my goal. and while I may never achieve that goal with a longbow, knowing that the better I am at repeating my shot process the more accurate I will be is a powerful driving force that keeps me entertained and hungry for more..
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Well said Javi & Snag. Been too critical of target shooters because I can't do it anymore. *Just plain & simple did it for too long. Being strickly a hunter is more important to derive the hunter benefit best simulating hunter conditions (for my purposes anyway). But, I do appreciate dedication & Zen mind meld necessary for especially Olympic target archers. Point being, if it's fun it's worthwhile regardless of target +/or hunt mentality. Highest commendation to those w/enough patience & correct mindset to keep it fun and excel at both.
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I have seen a number of shooters, myself included, that shoot targets with all of the right equipment and training get stale and almost over night develop shooting problems. Mental things start to happen. For those of us that are only trad shooters that getting stale and having the mental thing go wrong is possibly more common than with competition target shooters. I have found that to much back yard flat target shooting and not enough stump and 3-d shooting, wreaks havoc on my ability to concentrate on a spot that is not part of a large surface and always shooting at the same general range and back drop causes me all too often to have a soft release and not shoot for power. I can learn and resolve more issues about my shooting in 50 arrows stump shooting than I can with hundreds of arrows in my backyard. Saying all that, I still sometimes miss my BW target bow and that stiff locked up target form I used with it, but that did not cut it for hunting for me at all. I have never been a good enough hunter to get that sure shot at deer I needed with all those aiming and balancing dubers on my bow.
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The most successful coach of Olympic archers authored the "Eleven Steps to Archery Success" process" to 2,000,000 students this year in the National Archery in the Schools Program. To date 22,276 teachers and archery enthusiasts have also been taught this process so they can teach the kids. All these students shoot the same bow, no let-off, no sights, no release aids, and no stabilizers and identical arrows. The NASP world record is 298/300 and co-held by a 9th grade young lady and a 12th grade young man.
1. Stance (open)
2. Nock Arrow
3. Draw Hand Set
4. Bow Hand Set
5. Pre-draw (hinge bowarm up before draw)
6. Draw
7. Anchor
8. Aim
9. Shot Set-Up (Active muscles)
10. Release
11. Follow-through/Reflect
During "reflection" the archer takes just a moment, before nocking another arrow, to consider how the shot felt -- how the process was followed. The arrow's "score" is secondary to mastering the process. Beating up one's self because of the score is a quick way to shooting trouble.
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I try to add some time to my shot sequence. When I shoot in a groove, I tend to shoot fast, still good form but fast, so when I practice I hold for 3 seconds and then decide whether to shoot or not. Yes practising not to shoot is just as important as giving yourself the green light. Try it sometime and see if you flinch.
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On the flip side of holding, i have to say that best shots that have seen did not ever practice holding. Perfect form, of course, but holding is not what comes natural to many hunting archers. Making the ability to hold the pass/fail for good form is not always practical and at times can mess someone up. Repeatable strong form with a consistent release is vital form for all practice. If holding helps one to achieve that, fine. For me it getting the bow arm shoulder to the same alignment to the target and to get that last 6 or 7 inches of draw zoned in tight, after that all that concerns me is that solid pulling release and follow through. I have not found that holding is part of getting that strong release and follow through. After spending years developing a hold, I have left it behind and work on an even tempo, tight concentration on the smallest thing I can aim at, and release strong with keeping my hand pulling through in a smooth line with the draw and not letting fly away from my face or behind my head. Just a jump a bit back along my cheek.
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Originally posted by pavan:
On the flip side of holding, i have to say that best shots that have seen did not ever practice holding. Perfect form, of course, but holding is not what comes natural to many hunting archers. Making the ability to hold the pass/fail for good form is not always practical and at times can mess someone up. Repeatable strong form with a consistent release is vital form for all practice. If holding helps one to achieve that, fine. For me it getting the bow arm shoulder to the same alignment to the target and to get that last 6 or 7 inches of draw zoned in tight, after that all that concerns me is that solid pulling release and follow through. I have not found that holding is part of getting that strong release and follow through. After spending years developing a hold, I have left it behind and work on an even tempo, tight concentration on the smallest thing I can aim at, and release strong with keeping my hand pulling through in a smooth line with the draw and not letting fly away from my face or behind my head. Just a jump a bit back along my cheek.
The trick here is that you make sure you have reached full draw and the action is conscious as is the choice to shoot or not.. not everyone has learned that skill and so they first need to learn the feeling of reaching full draw (anchor) and the skill of choosing whether to shoot or not when the target is in sight…
Learning to hold will teach that..
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Mike, I have a little different take on this. Guess there are lots of ways to do this.
I have learned to pull throughout the shot. I have lengthened my draw length to a point of almost loosing the arrow. Then as I continue to expand my back muscles through the draw the arrow is in flight...no conscious effort on my part. I think some are liable to attract "target panic" when you start to decide when the arrow is going to be released...it's that anticipation thing.
It is ingrained in me when using the Formaster that I am to pull through the shot. This allows me to train and use the proper back muscles and not have to think the shot...but allow it to unfold and just happen. I had to learn this. I hope I learned well. Thanks Rod.
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Originally posted by snag:
Mike, I have a little different take on this. Guess there are lots of ways to do this.
I have learned to pull throughout the shot. I have lengthened my draw length to a point of almost loosing the arrow. Then as I continue to expand my back muscles through the draw the arrow is in flight...no conscious effort on my part. I think some are liable to attract "target panic" when you start to decide when the arrow is going to be released...it's that anticipation thing.
It is ingrained in me when using the Formaster that I am to pull through the shot. This allows me to train and use the proper back muscles and not have to think the shot...but allow it to unfold and just happen. I had to learn this. I hope I learned well. Thanks Rod.
My question would be.. if you do not consiously decide when to loose the arrow, what happens when the target changes during the draw... do you still loose the arrow or hold/letdown?
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Javi, let me answer this one for Snag....at anchor and while in balanced pulling phase, he has a commitment phase to choose whether to proceed to conclusion or let down.....once he begins expansion, theres no conscious thought to releasing the arrow.
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Mike, I thought we were talking target archery. If I am hunting I use my back muscles to pull through the shot. I do not consciously think of releasing the arrow. It happens quickly so there's no problem with having the animal move or reposition.
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Originally posted by snag:
Mike, I thought we were talking target archery. If I am hunting I use my back muscles to pull through the shot. I do not consciously think of releasing the arrow. It happens quickly so there's no problem with have the animal move or reposition.
I shoot at animals like I do targets... cause once I decide to shoot it's just a target... once I commit and relax my fingers the shot is away.. but that is a conscious action as is every step from the moment I decide to shoot.
I decide on the best stance available to me, I focus on the target then I draw and nock my arrow with a conscious thought to properly align the nock and pay attention to how the nock feels on the serving. I hook my fingers to the string feeling for the correct fit, I fit my hand in the handle, again feeling for the proper fit. I raise my bow and drawing arm as a unit, rotating my upper body to the target as I raise the bow. I begin my draw by rotating my upper body back to shoulders square with my hips, I feel my shoulder drop down in alignment with my bow shoulder, the load in my back and I bring my hand into my face feeling the spot on my cheek that is one of my anchors, the string on my face and the cock vane against my lips being the others... I decide if I will shoot, heighten my focus on the intended POI and relax my fingers allowing the string to pull from my fingers, my bow arm to recoil forward and my draw hand to recoil backward... I never remove my eye from the intended POI until I see the arrow strike... All of this takes just a little more than the blink of an eye... and is purely instinctive from years of practicing and not allowing myself to shoot a single arrow during practice that wasn't right... But each step is also conscious and I allow no other thoughts to surface because my concentration is solely on the process
That is how I learned to shoot...
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Glad you enjoy shooting so much Mike. Sounds like you are very passionate about it and must be very good as well.
Thanks Rod, you worded it better than I did.
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Originally posted by snag:
Glad you enjoy shooting so much Mike. Sounds like you are very passionate about it and must be very good as well.
Thanks Rod, you worded it better than I did.
Not nearly as good as I wish I could have been, and now not as good as I was... mostly today I'm better at teaching than I am at shooting.. old age ain't for the weak... :D
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I have some fun with my practice by playing games.
Shooting on a course with animal targets, chose 3-4 arrows per target. Shoot the first round of 3-4 arrows at your max effective range. You do not move on to the next target until you can put all the arrows in the kill zone. Pull the arrows and shoot from the same distance or move closer. I like to the same thing with 1 arrow, Sometimes holding for about 30 seconds.
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Right now I use 3 different targets, a bag and 2 3D. I'll do bale and target work on the bag, and various range shots on the 3D's. I have them set so I can shoot at 1 target from the other, when I retrieve arrows. Sometimes I do bale work to warm up, sometimes the first shot is off a step ladder, simulating a tree stand shot. It's good to break things up, but I'm always mindful of form and shot sequence.