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Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: Bucksnort101 on April 06, 2011, 08:29:00 PM
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Trying to tune some Carbon Express Heritage 150's to a new bow. Remember I am a LEFTY.
1. Bow is a Dwyer Endeavor, 49#'s at my 27" draw, but I think I am drawing this bow a little further.
2. Arrows are Carbon Express Heritage 150's with a 50 grain brass insert. Arrows are cut to a hair over 29" from the nock to BOP. (Bare shaft)
Started with a 145 grain field pont, arrow comes off rest with a major nock kick to the right, arrow hits target or misses way left with the nock to the right. My mind says too weak? Tried 125 tips, got worse. Went to 175 not still left, 200 same, not as far, 250 still hits left!!!!
Am I thinking backwards on this for a lefty? Arrows hitting left with nock right of the tip indicates too weak of spine if my brain still works like it is supposed to, right?
I also thought the nocks that came with the Carbon Express arrows were to tight on the string, so I glued in a nock adaptor and put on a trusty Bohning Classic and still get the same thing. Only other thing I could think of is I switched to tying on a string nocking point rather than a brass one and it was slipping up and down the string, but that does not seem to be the case.
I am confused.
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Are you shooting 3 under by chance? I had all kinds of problems bareshaft tuning shooting 3 under until I tied on a second nock below the arrow. But yes, point left nock right should be weak for a lefty. Also, I was told to make sure that I didn't cant my bow when bareshaft tuning. I'm not sure what's going on but I'd bet that it will be straightened out by the TG experts in no time at all :-)
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Nope, I shoot split finge. Tried 3 under and it just doesn't feel right.
I am holding the bow pretty much vertical testing the arrows.
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I agree, they're showing weak for a leftie. I think I'd try 100gr. points or even less if you have them. Sometimes while bareshafting I'll induce all kinds of UFO's (unintended flying observations)simply by thinking about watching the arrow instead of focusing on the target. I use the back of the cock fletch against my nose as a second anchor/draw check also. It's not there on a bare shaft and can "play with my head". Your other option would be to shorten an arrow and try again (small increments). I'm not familiar with CE spine, but you said you're overdrawing and may be in the 250 range.
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With a major nock kick to the right you may be hitting the riser. If you put a white cap wrap on the bare shaft with a Bear strike plate if it is hitting the riser it will put a black mark on the cap wrap. Being a lefty also I was shocked to find that against the flow of right handed shooters I had to lower my nock point on the string to 3/16 ths above level. That sraitened out a lot of things for me. And have you tried a CX 350 yet? Lots of luck to a fellow lefty
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It seems funny that your thread is called: Is my brain backwards and you're left handed... not that there is anything wrong with that. Some of my best friends are left handed. :-)
Do Carbon Express arrows have a stiffer side like some other carbon arrows do?
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I agree with Atatrpm. The arrow is hitting the riser. Probably right in front of the fletching. You can try changing the brace height to see if you can tune it out but most likely you will have to use a heavier arrow.
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I think that your arrows are spined too light for your setup. Do you have a CE 250's to try? Can you take out the brass insert and put in an aluminum one and use light field points? Just some thoughts on what to try. From Stu's spine calculator I came up with a CE 250, 50 grain insert, and 175 grain point everything else the same. Hope this helps.
Clayton
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You are way over spined and should be dropping to the Heritage 90. The CE150 is stiffer than the charts would indicate. I draw 30" on a 50" longbow and a 53# recurve with 30.75" arrows, 100g insert and 125g points and the arrow is still slightly stiff. By being over-spined, your arrows are bouncing hard off the plate, rather than bending around it, and kicking your nocks right. As a righty, my nocks were kicking hard left when over-spined. As a lefty, yours nocks would be kicking right.
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Been a while since I've checked up on this thread. This is confusing. One person says over spined, the next underspined;)
I tried some CE Heritage 90's yesterday. Left them full length, used the aluminum inserts that came with them and tried 175, 200, and 250 grain heads. Still they all seemed to shoot in the same spot, about 8" left and nock right. Had one of the 150's with me so I shot it and it hit in the same spotas the others.
Thinking overspined is the answer. Going to pick up some 50 and 100 brass inserts and start over.
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CX Heritage 150's are interesting. I love them and that's all I shoot. I have two BW PL's at 50 and 55#. My arrows are cut to 28.5" and my draw is 28". They bare shaft great with 145 grain field points out of both bows. When I add 3-5" feathers (no wraps) I need heavier points. This is where it gets backwards. The 55# bow shoots best with 200 grain points and the 50# bow shoots best with 175 grain points. It should be the other way around. If the fletched arrow shoots where I look I'm happy.
By the way, CX nocks do need to be filed down to fit every string I've had. I just use a small broadness file. It's a tight fit at first but after a couple pulls it gets easy and fits the serving better. I like their smaller nocks.
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I've been using CX arrows and also found the nocks to be much too tight, so switched to Bohning Signature Nocks which fit much better.
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I noticed the tight nock fit on the initial 150 testing and thought that was part of the problem. I had already tried the Bohning Signature nocks on the 150's and did not seem to change things much.
The nocks that came with the 90's don't seem as tight, but that my be due to the serving on the string getting worn in a bit. Has anyone found glue in nock adaptors that fit the 90 shafts? They are a bit skinnier than the 150's.
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Um, yeah, can we get this clarified?
Bare shaft:
For a lefty, nock right is weak spine.
For a rightie, nock left is weak spine.
Yes?
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You are probably way overspined.If a shaft is way overspined it will bounce off the side of the riser and show a "false weak" indication.It can drive you crazy.You probably need to go to the next lighter spined shaft.
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It is hard to say without more info on your string and bow center cut. I would think you would be too stiff with the light points. I would think you would be able to get real close with one of the higher weight points. If you pluck the string on release you can get a too stiff arrow to shoot way weak.
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The 150's are to stiff {showing a false weak, hitting the riser because to stiff}. 90,s are weak at full length cut alittle at a time{leave them alittle weak cause feathers will stiffen up arrow}
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I disagree with the people who are saying you are to stiff I have shot the cx 250's from a bow that pulled 49 at 27 with an arrow cut to 29'' with a 50 grain brass insert and 175 grain point and they bareshafted perfect I would try the stiffer shaft
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Have you had sucess bareshafting other set ups with this bow?
I had a similar issue and eventually traced the problem to bow torque; a change in hand placement and grip pressure fixed the issue.
RD
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OK, finally broke down and bought a CX test kit with one each of 90, 150, 250, and a 350 spined shaft. Only thing I could get to shoot without a nock left is a full length 350 with a 100 grain point. So I think a 250 cut down with a heavier tip weight should do the trick.
Think I'll order a half dozen 250's and start cutting one down and see what happens.
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This is why I own my own arrow saw, and cut and fletch my own arrows.
If I want to try new arrows, I take about six arrows, cut them at different lengths about 1/2 inch apart, and have a wide variety of different field point in different weights, and it doesn't take long for me to dial the arrows in.