Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: rluttrell on August 15, 2011, 05:22:00 PM
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First let me start of by saying I am pretty new to Traditional archery. When I take a shot at 50 yards I can see down the arrow to the target, but when I have to shot less than 25 yards or 15 feet I have no idea on where to put the arrow. It is the most frustrating thing for me right now. All help is appreciated thanks Robert
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If you are looking down the arrow at 50, you will have to hold the point of the arrow below the point to be hit at closer ranges. Only you can discover how far but you might try pointing the arrow about 2 feet below the bull at twenty yards and experiment from there. This all depends on how you shoot, and what you are really using for a sight picture. Do a search for both "gap shooting" and instinctive and see if that helps.
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The point-on distance is the distance where you can aim by putting the point of the arrow on the target. 40 yards is a common point-on distance for trad archery, although it can vary from that distance depending on the individual archer and equipment setup. If your point-on is 40 yards, you can easily shoot at 35 yards or 45 yards simply by holding a little over or under the target. Similarly, you can find out how much more you need to hold over or under the target at 30 yards or 50 yards.
But at 20 yards or 60 yards, the point of the arrow is going to be quite a ways under or over the target. People cope with this various ways. Some practice a lot at 20 yards and learn to shoot instinctively, not caring where the point of the arrow is. Others continue to use the point of the arrow, which will be about 20-24" under the target at that distance. Even though I'm an instinctive shooter at 20 yards, I find it useful to be aware of the arrow point in my peripheral vision, because in the excitement of shooting at an animal or other high-stakes situation, I'm likely to shoot high, and it is good to have a check on my "instincts."
Actually, there is less of an adjustment to make shooting at 5 yards than at 20 yards. Assuming your point-on is 40 yards, your maximum adjustment will be at about 20 yards. From 20 yards out to 40, and 20 yards in to zero, your adjustment will decrease with each increment in either direction. It would be common to have to hold under about 8" at 5 yards.
There are other ways of coping with this situation, such as face-walking and string-walking, but I'd recommend you develop good solid form first before experimenting with them.
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Beat me to the punch again, Arne!
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Ya, we've got to quit meeting like this Dave :D
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Ok so being able to put the arrow on a target at a certain distance is ok?
I guess I will mark out distances and just keep shooting thank you guys
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Yes, we all have a point on distance for our particular anchor point and bow/arrow set up. It varies between individuals though due to anchor point, poundage, facial structure. I, like McDave, see the arrow in my peripheral vision at shorter distances. It's sort of like projecting the path of the arrow into the target. After a while it gets to be subconcious and you notice the arrow less.
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What is being mentioned is a gap style of aiming.
I am not sure if your question pertains to this, or if you are seeing a double vision arrow in your peripheral vision when shoot at targets 15-20 yards. Sometimes people experience this even if they are not shooting cross dominant. This usually diminishes the further out you shoot. It also usually diminishes in general over time.
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I am not sure if your question pertains to this, or if you are seeing a double vision arrow in your peripheral vision when shoot at targets 15-20 yards.
The best way I can describe it is this. When I shoot at 40 to 50 yards I can look down the arrow and see the target from the arrow tip. I can move it up or down a little and I can hit the target with confidence.
When I have a shot at 15 feet I have no idea on where to point the arrow. It seems like it’s all a guess to me and I have no confidence it the shot.
Sometimes people experience this even if they are not shooting cross dominant. This usually diminishes the further out you shoot. It also usually diminishes in general over time.
I am a right handed person that is left eye dominate. I am learning to shoot left handed. I don’t have as much strength in my left side as I do my right but I do know that I am not cross eyed.
This is my second bow; the 1st one was only 35 pounds @ 28 I have a 31 inch draw. I wanted to learn form before going to something heavier. I think I have. I now have a new bow that is 45 @ 28 and I took it to the archery shop and it is 53 ½ and my draw length. It shoots a much flatter arrow which is nice. I just am having a hard time at short distances. I am getting some arrows today and think I will stand 10 feet away until I can hit a dime every time. Than start moving back in 10 feet increments
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I can sense your frustration and believe me, we are trying to help through suggestions. Let's back up a bit.
Do you shoot split finger or three fingers under? Where do you anchor (ie: middle finger in corner of mouth, etc.)?
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One method for short range shots it to Gap off the riser, I do this on shots under 40y then start to use arrow after that, my point on is 55y.
It's shown on MBB series but easiest way is to mark the riser with tape like a primitive pin sight for each distance 10, 20, 30y etc shoot for a few weeks with tape on and then remove tape and you should have a sight picture ingrained nicely for each distance.
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Most folks new to trad think that when you shoot close you should be aiming right on with the point of the arrow and at distance you should be over the target.
It's normal thinking. And if we were to shoot by line of site that would be true. But we don't shoot that way. Even if you are "gun barreling" (looking down the shaft)when you shoot your eye is still above the arrow. Thus the descepency in what we think vs. what is really happening. The greater the distance your eye from the shaft the more pronounced the "gap" or in laymans terms the distance inbetween your arrow point and the target.
It takes strength, skill, and dedication to play well in this game. Stick with it, you'll get it. After a while you won't even think about it. And when you do...you just missed! But that's another lesson for another day! LOL...
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Im pretty new to traditional also, and i went through a similar issue.
When i started i shot split fingered, my point on was about 45- 50 yards. I wasn't very consistent at closer rangers.
I switched to three under, which moves the arrow higher on your face, consequently reducing your point on range. (My current point on with three under is about 30-35 yards) Another side effect of shooting three under is that it reduces the gap between the point and the bulls eye. (As Trad-Man said, "The greater the distance your eye from the shaft the more pronounced the "gap" or in laymans terms the distance inbetween your arrow point and the target"). This was beneficial for me and improved my consistency at closer ranges.
Shooting at 15 feet (5 yds) is just something you have to learn through practice. At that range i usually think to myself "Aim lower"
Are you going to be hunting with the bow?
If so you might try 3 under , it might just help your consistency at closer ranges.
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The KEY statement was...
"I'm pretty new to Trad Archery"
It takes time to groove in the trajectory of the arrow....meaning.....lots of shooting. No matter what your aiming system is.
Stay after it!!!!!!
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double post
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I can sense your frustration and believe me, we are trying to help through suggestions. Let's back up a bit.
Do you shoot split finger or three fingers under? Where do you anchor (ie: middle finger in corner of mouth, etc.)?
I am shooting split finger, I am trying to put the palm of my hand on the bend of my jaw bone. I seem to be able to put it in the same place all the time.
I shot today at 10 yards, I seem to shoot the best when I just focused on the target and stayed holding the stance for 3 seconds after letting go.
What I noticed today is that my arrow is creeping forward. Not sure why
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I am shooting split finger, I am trying to put the palm of my hand on the bend of my jaw bone.
I confess, I shoot split finger also but can't seem to get into that postition. I anchor with the middle finger sliding across the corner of my mouth and the top finger tucks against my cheekbone.
Perhaps you'd do better at short targets shooting 3 fingers under allowing the arrow to be closer to your eye. You can sight down the arrow easily.
Maybe try a drill to help visualize where the arrow is pointing. Draw an arrow like you are shooting a bow without a bow, just the arrow in your hands, and just point it at various things to try to project where the arrow is pointing. Just sight down the arrow while pointing it at things.
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Under 20 I find it best for me to shoot instinctive and
Use the arrow at longer distances stRt at a couple feet and shoot at a spot concentrating on it till you hit it everytime then back up afew feet and repeat over and over I practice with one arrow so so I have to think and concentrate on the shot more. Up to twenty I just looks where I want to hit and everything past I find myself using the arrow but don't know point on distance or even worry about it or yardage I just pull it back and shoot
Stick with it it all fall in place after a while. I have to shoot 3-5 hours a week to stay on my a game but I live it and it's good exercise!!
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I confess, I shoot split finger also but can't seem to get into that postition. I anchor with the middle finger sliding across the corner of my mouth and the top finger tucks against my cheekbone. I was at the range and noticed this guys form. He did the same thing every time from start to finish at 25 yards he had 4 inch groups. He was anchoring on his jawbone. He just said my jawbone doesn’t move and I can anchor in the same place every time. I tried it and it works for me I can put my hand in the same place every time.
I tried going from split-finger to 3 under but stopped. It made my bow a lot louder and I don’t want to keep changing.
I was working on my form and noticed I was not pinching my back muscles, What exercise do you guys use to duplicate this act? I can’t shoot my bow in the back yard. (Just not big enough)
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I was working on my form and noticed I was not pinching my back muscles, What exercise do you guys use to duplicate this act?
I just read the answer on another post,
Work out with your bow....nothing will make you draw a bow easier...or a heavier bow easier, than doing the exact same work/movement required to do so.
Do 3 sets of 8 and hold for a couple of seconds at each full draw rep.
Do this every other day....the muscles need time to re-build.
After two weeks....move to 4 sets of 10. Again, every other day.
If it were me, I'd also do the same exercise with the opposite hand.
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I phone spell check sux!! makes you look like ignorant in posts!!LOL!
You can go three under and be just as quiet, I just build my shelf up a hair and move the nock set up, it puts pulling the string in the same place as you would shooting split. Also I usually have to have mine set a little more nock high.
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I'm new to trad too, but I've sorta figured out this dilemma. At least for me.
At longer ranges 25yds and out, I use the gap shooting method.
I too had the same problem you are having. I was pretty impressed with my 40yd shooting. It was easy, because my point on is right at 40yds.
When I was shooting 20yds and under, I was consistently shooting high, on center, but high...
I figured out the gap I needed to hold under at close ranges, but it didn't sit well with me.
I started focusing very hard on my target at "hunting" ranges. 20yds and under. Now, I'm to a point where I pretty much shoot instinctive at the closer ranges. I don't focus on the point of the arrow. I focus on where I want to hit on the target.
I've found that I mentally adjust at 10yds to hit where I want and out to 20yds.
I can't really describe it, it just happens now.??
All I can say, like the others have said too, just keep at it. It will all "click" eventually.
Good Luck,
BuckyT
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I use the gap shooting method.
Would someone please in a nice way explain gap shooting?
Thanks
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It's pretty simple. You memorize the gap (distance) between the point of the arrow and the spot you are aiming at.
Ranger B did a good video on how to figure this. He started at 10 yards and shot 3 arrows at the target putting the point of the arrow on the spot. He then measured with a tape measure the distance between the arrows above the target and his aiming spot. Then he wrote this down into his book. This was his gap for 10 yards and to shoot something at 10 yards put your arrow point under your aiming point the same distance (or gap) for 10 yards.
Step back 5 yards, shoot again each time putting the arrow point on your aiming point and record the gap. Eventually you will get to a yardage where your arrow will fall into the aiming point when you put the point of the arrow on the aiming point. This is your "point on" distance.
Keep stepping back 5 yards and now the arrow will fall under your aiming point. Keep recording the gap but now you must aim above your aiming point to hit the target.
Those who shoot this method claim the gap becomes second nature and they don't have to think about it after a while. I found you must be fairly good at estimating distance to shoot this method.
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Got it and understand it
thank you