Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: Chain2 on December 31, 2011, 08:40:00 AM
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I have been giving my Hill a go lately and it is getting the best of me. I need help. It is becoming like my golf game. YUCK. I started traditional a few months ago with a recurve that I started to shoot reasonably well to 30 yds or so. Then I got the Hill. I have lost three arrows in as many days andI am all over the place. I made a paper tuning stand to check my nock point (three under) bullet holes. So I need some advice.
1) Is it better when starting out to concentrate soley on an instinctive style rather then gap or split vision ?
2) Is there advantage to having the target at shoulder height for form practice rather than shooting down a bit ?
3) I think my arrows are spined heavy and I am awaiting a 3 Rivers delivery, most of my misses are left and the arrow tail is pointing to the right. Is this a correct assumption?
I appreciate the help the frustration level was high last night. I shot better this morning, when I just concentrated on the "spot". Thank you
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many many things to consider, the first and foremost is, are you sure you're not "over bowed"?
recurves and american flat longbows (i.e. - howard hill) are about as far apart in stick bow styles as one can get, pretty much complete opposites, and each will probably need to be approached differently from arrow selection and shooting form perspectives.
arm chair cyber coaching will be difficult and it would be best to seek one-on-one local help - club, store, coach, etc.
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There is a whole thread dedicated to shooting Hill style bows. Rob set up a search option so you can go through the thread more quickly. Getting the mechanics of form ingrained is the important first step. It sounds like getting close to a bale and shooting only for form might help you.
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Thank you. I watch and watch and re-watched the Rptational Draw video posted by MoeBow. It helped immensely. I shot for form last night and this a.m. and I think I am gaining. Thank you
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Chain, could you tell us a little more about your equipment. With out knowing weights of your bows, spine of arrows and the fact you have only begun shooting traditional a few months ago, I'm hesitent to offer any comment in response to your problem without more info.
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I am shooting a Hill Wesley Special. 50 lbs @ 30" , I am drawing about 32". I have been shooting Gold Tip 55/75 arrows with a 125 gr field tip. Craig at Hill Bows and Three Rivers both thought I was amrginally heavy spined. I have some arrows coming Beman MFX 400's and a field tip test kit. I just got in from shooting, most of which I just practiced the rotational draw, close to the target. I walked back to 20 yds a step at a time with very good results. I quit on a positive note. My next question will be about my glove. I think my index finger is catching the string a lttle on release. It is a damascas glove thaqt is too small, but it was the biggest glove I could buy at the time I got my recurve. I am thinking of getting a stiffer, larger glove but I don't want to do too many adjustments all at once. Thank you
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You mention you started trad a few months back and then you mention 30 yds. Are you shooting to far for your abilities?
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I was shooting reasonably well with an old recurve I have to 28-30 yds. The recurve was short and I felt it might be a bit heavy. I traded a rifle for this Hill I have now. Shooting the Hill bow is alot different than the recurve or my compound (Oneida). Like I said, the video that moebow posted on rotational draw helped alot. I haven't shot the Hill very much at 30 yds yet, until today I thought I would never get there. I am trying to become proficient enough to take it elk hunting in Sept.
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Chain, I can't help with the arrows as I know nothing of carbon arrows. One question; you stated that watching Moebows vid helped you, could it be that it may be you, I'm like others here if I were you I would see if anyone locally could help, do a lot more form work,lower my expectations a little to see if I become proficient enough to accomplish my goal. It would be best if the target you use to do baling were up so you did not have to be concerned about the angle. Take your time it is a process not to be rushed. Make sure of your arrows and their flight, with field points and broadheads. Learn than practice,practice and than practice some more. Best of luck to you.
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Thank you. I am looking for someone local, if for nothing else, to shoot with. I am trying to shoot alot. Small blizzard today, simulating rough hunting conditions. Thank you
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Wow, 32" draw on a hill style longbow, your knuckles must drag the ground when you walk,lol.
I have a 30" draw on a recurve but on my longbow my draw went down to 27".Put a clothes pin on a arrow and draw it back without looking and make sure you are really drawing 32".You do need to get the right arrow set up so you will know if your problems are the arrow or your form.Also try shooting at something small like a tennis ball or a coke can.I know for me i dont get target panic as bad with a small target as i do when shooting at a bulls eye target.Also if you can video yourself shooting and put it up here a lot of these guys might can point out some hints too.
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I had problems before with my Hill, but I finally leanred how to hold the grip to make it work for me.
I still heel the handle with a low wrist grip, but I slightly cock the lower portion of my hand away from the handle which causes my thumb knuckle to be slightly higher than my index finger knuckle. I still have all the handle firmly in the meaty part of my palm and I also lightly wrap my fingers around the handle applying just enough pressure to keep the bow from jumping out of my hand at the shot.
It works very well for me and I am as accutate with it as any of the other bows I shoot.
Good luck!
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I wish I could video, although after seeing myself I mught quit. I have very long arms. My arrows uncut are about 1" beyond the riser of my Hill bow, maybe less. I am getting better, I think I need to practice just drawing and shooting to get my form down. Someone here said to do this, and I have been, I think it eliminates thinking too much. I really think thinking too much is alot of my problem. This is like my golf swing, sometimes it is just best for me to grip it and rip it. Thank you
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I think you could probably add 100-150 grains of point weight. I shoot a similar weight Halfbreed drawn to 31". I shoot a 31.5" 5575 with a 50 grain insert and a 250 grain point out of it.
Let me add that I started shooting Arrow Dynamics shafts and they sure did eliminate a lot of tuning issues for me. They are a very forgiving shaft and will tolerate a lot of different point weights. I use both the Trad Lite and the Hammerhead Lite and they are fantastic shafts.
I would also suggest shooting that bow exclusively for a while, if you're not already. Switching back and forth between a couple of different style bows can hinder your progress.
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I am only shooting the Hill. # Rivers thought I might be at 145 gr tip or broadhead and 75 gr insert with the BFX Beman 400's. I will look at the arrows you mentioned also.thank you
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"still heel the handle with a low wrist grip, but I slightly cock the lower portion of my hand away from the handle which causes my thumb knuckle to be slightly higher than my index finger knuckle."
That should have been thumb knuckle LOWER than my index finger knuckle.
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I just got back in from shooting. Still snowing and blowing. I am seeing some improvement, slow but sure. Thanks Guys
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Why are you shooting at 30 yards? Pretty hard to pick a spot at 30. Try 10 or 15 yards and when you're hitting a baseball size spot all the time then work on a longer shot
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I was shooting my recurve at 30 yds. , I have been shooting closer with the Hill.
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imho trad archery is a steep learnng curve for many of us.myself included .get a good coach .its like any sport tennis golf etc we all need help at some point or we continoue to practice our mistakes.
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I am presently looking for someone local. Until then you guys are my coaches. Thank you
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Originally posted by dragonheart:
There is a whole thread dedicated to shooting Hill style bows. Rob set up a search option so you can go through the thread more quickly. Getting the mechanics of form ingrained is the important first step. It sounds like getting close to a bale and shooting only for form might help you.
:dunno:
I've tried finding that thread, but haven't had any luck. Would you be so kind as to direct me to it?
Thanks.
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Hill "bug" thread it has more post on it than any other thread on tradgang.
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http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=098600
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Hitting'em like Howard hill DVD Money well spent.
Grab bow, draw it to corner of mouth, point fingers at target. repeat. Eventually your brain will make the necessary corrections.
Smile, while you do it, a little positivity goes a long way.
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Thanks for the direction!
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have you ever tried a tap most of the better shooter shot tabs again most not all glove to me seem to bunch up sometimes and heavy spine arrows do fly left. weak right for a right hand shooter but also if you just started shooting 3 moth ago there alot to learn and only change one thing at a time long bows i always use plam and full hand. recure i try to use high wrist to just get arch of thumb and pointer fingerin deep not palm
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Originally posted by swampthing:
Hitting'em like Howard hill DVD Money well spent.
Grab bow, draw it to corner of mouth, point fingers at target. repeat. Eventually your brain will make the necessary corrections.
Smile, while you do it, a little positivity goes a long way.
John Schulz gives you the foundation of the style of shooting. The DVD and book together give the best insight. Watch it over and over and you will pick up on subtle insights. Counting: One, two, three, four through the shot process, he mentions as a mantra. he stated that Howard Hill would make him do when learning the form.
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Bob Wesley also has a good book and DVD. You can get them from Howard Hill Archery. Bob starightened me out.
Good luck
Gil
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Originally posted by Gil Verwey:
Bob Wesley also has a good book and DVD. You can get them from Howard Hill Archery. Bob starightened me out.
Good luck
Gil
:thumbsup: