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Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: RC on May 25, 2012, 08:41:00 PM

Title: Shoot without thinking?
Post by: RC on May 25, 2012, 08:41:00 PM
I recently changed a near 35 year method of shooting, actually changed this time last year. I had to put a whole lot of thought into what I was doing because it was different and I wanted to relearn "right".
 My change was I switched from shooting split and holding about a gnats butt of a second at full draw to shooting 3 under and holding maybe 1-2 seconds after hitting full draw and really bearing down on my spot.
  When I am practicing I shoot through steps. Kinda like Rick Welch teachs in his Instructional II dvd.I grip the bow hit anchor and hold till the shot goes off. I do pull through the release and don`t shoot a "dead" release.
  Here is the question....I am thinking about what I do through the entire shot while practicing now 4 turkeys,4 pigs and 11 deer since changing shooting styles I yet remember anything about the shot other than drawing the bow and knowing the animal was "right" for the shot. Crazy ain`t it. I honestly don`t know if I do everything right in a hunting shot because I can`t remember.I have only missed a time or two since switching so I must be doing something right but wish I could be "awake" through the shot.
  Anybody else do this or is it just me and something to try to work on? How would you try to "fix" it or would you?Thanks,RC
Title: Re: Shoot without thinking?
Post by: daveycrockett on May 25, 2012, 09:58:00 PM
Auto pilot! Sounds like you have found what many strive for. I too think thruout my shot here in the yard. But don't remember the shot sequence in a hunting situation. I like it.
Title: Re: Shoot without thinking?
Post by: chuckbow on May 25, 2012, 10:13:00 PM
exactly what its supposed to ! perfect , thats what we are striving for !
Title: Re: Shoot without thinking?
Post by: m midd on May 27, 2012, 01:03:00 AM
I shoot so much better when i can do it with out thinking. I can shoot lights out at my course at home, but when i get to the 3D shoot every month I overthink about half my shots.. Hunting is a different story. All i ever remember is putting tension on the string and seeing the arrow spin toward the target.
Title: Re: Shoot without thinking?
Post by: cahaba on May 27, 2012, 02:14:00 AM
I think thru my shot in the yard too but I strive to "not think". Not much thinking on hunting shots. It just happens.I have not killed a deer yet only squirrels and rabbits but this coming season I am going to be dedicated to bow only.
Title: Re: Shoot without thinking?
Post by: kawika b on May 27, 2012, 03:47:00 PM
Yay for muscle memory!

Conversely... can/do you recall what you did differently on your misses (if it was you and not the game jumpin the string)?
Title: Re: Shoot without thinking?
Post by: straitera on June 03, 2012, 11:34:00 AM
From what I've seen, you could shoot with a blindfold!

Just a preference of technique. IMO, 3-under allows more aiming down the shaft. Personally never favored "sighting" in any way. MOF, I never see my arrow when drawing. Shoot split all my life.
Title: Re: Shoot without thinking?
Post by: Terry Green on June 03, 2012, 08:20:00 PM
Robert....many of the best shots I ever made on game I don't even remember drawing the bow.
Title: Re: Shoot without thinking?
Post by: Blaino on June 03, 2012, 08:38:00 PM
I'm going to agree with Terry. I have only killed a handful of critters with a bow but I don't remember anything except seeing my arrow on it's way in what seemed like slow-motion..... If you remember drawing then you a step ahead of me    :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Shoot without thinking?
Post by: rlc1959 on June 04, 2012, 03:28:00 PM
I am practicing for a NM Elk Hunt this Fall. All of my Archery kills have been with the other style bow. I am committed to doing this with my ACS Long Bow. My question is my first shot of the session is usually my best and the longer I shoot the worse I get . I guess the longer I shoot the more I think about it. Like you say shoot WITHOUT THINKING works best for me.

Take care , Randy
Title: Re: Shoot without thinking?
Post by: Guru on June 06, 2012, 07:47:00 PM
You're not alone Robert....I've thought about it for many years....I have no idea what happens when the "green light" goes off.  I often wonder if I get to full draw.....I really don't have any recollection after shooting a critter....

I must though, lots of dead critters     ;)
Title: Re: Shoot without thinking?
Post by: mark land on June 07, 2012, 10:08:00 AM
Yep me too!  I always go thru a routine when practicing and even shooting 3-D but on animals the arrow is just gone and I don't remember much about anything with the shot other then concentrating on where I want to hit the animal.
As others have said some of my best shots on game have been just watching the arrow spiral into the kill zone and not even remembering drawing or even hitting anchor or what, it just happened?  Sweet isn't it?
Title: Re: Shoot without thinking?
Post by: Friend on June 14, 2012, 09:49:00 PM
If there is time where an animal permits me to think, then I rely heavily on focusing on my shot sequence to attempt to keep my nerves at bay.

Has personally proven quite effective.
Title: Re: Shoot without thinking?
Post by: Jason R. Wesbrock on June 21, 2012, 01:09:00 PM
RC,

I could probably copy and paste Curt's response under my name and not have to change a thing. For me, those "auto pilot" shots are the reward of thousands of very deliberate, methodical shots throughout the year.
Title: Re: Shoot without thinking?
Post by: team fudd on July 03, 2012, 08:04:00 PM
Had my first auto pilot shot this summer a few weeks ago killing my first hog.  Four years of practicing almost every day, thinking and rethinking my shot. I only had an instant to shoot and dont even remember my shot sequence only that there was now an arrow in the exact spot my eyes had been burning a hole in just seconds before.  Love it when a plan comes together.
Title: Re: Shoot without thinking?
Post by: Red Tailed Hawk on July 03, 2012, 08:09:00 PM
Agreed, I shoot best when I concentrate on the spot I want to hit and nothing else.

Drawing the bow and coming to anchor should be natural and not realized.
Title: Re: Shoot without thinking?
Post by: on July 03, 2012, 08:52:00 PM
I know exactly what you mean RC! I can pick apart my shots (esp the bad ones) when I am practicing but don't have a clue when hunting. I think it is because of the live, moving animal in front of me. I am so focused on the spot and when the time is right I just shoot. When I do make a bad shot while hunting, I can't tell you what I did wrong (and that bugs me a bit because I do not want to repeat mistakes).

Bisch
Title: Re: Shoot without thinking?
Post by: TSP on July 05, 2012, 05:12:00 PM
Sounds like what happens when someone does any learned repeated sequence (walking, breathing, eating, throwing, etc.)...which is why it's a good idea not to get too complicated in building form for 'normal' shooting (like hunting).  It's not necessary to have 14 steps or gadget trickery just to shoot an arrow.  Keeping it simple has it's advantages.  It's almost like, well, instinctive or something...       :saywhat:      :cool:
Title: Re: Shoot without thinking?
Post by: windrunner on July 22, 2012, 10:20:00 PM
the plan is what we want to stick with! and after all the practice we go through it is a sweet moment when the shot is for real.
Title: Re: Shoot without thinking?
Post by: Terry Green on July 23, 2012, 11:46:00 AM
It doesn't have to take any steps to learn good form or proper alignment, which I think is THE most important foundation in running a shot WHILE in the field where you don't always get the luxury of the back yard shot.  All it takes is learning to draw correctly....and that will make you more accurate in the field with the not so perfect shooting positions.  

A 14 step 'check list' to run through to get a shot off is not form.  That is just a mental confirmations that some folks use....and would be the opposite topic of this thread...

    :campfire:
Title: Re: Shoot without thinking?
Post by: TSP on April 13, 2013, 02:31:00 PM
I agree, a checklist is not form, form being the physical result of what a checklist leads you to do.  But shooting tutorials often use some kind of relatively complicated checklist or sequential step method for coaching form...do this, definately don't do that, then do this, then make sure that...etc. etc.  Not that there's anything wrong with having sequential steps for explaining a means to the end, but too much slicing up of the shot into tiny training pieces can make one reliant on a concious 'checklist' approach to shooting. IMO that overfussification can be a bad thing, or at least an unnecessary thing for freewheeling situations like those found in hunting. RC suggests that his practice steps (for hunting) don't carry over into a concious awareness of how he executes his draw and shot, and he does quite well with it.  I think that's a good testimonial to the advantages of keeping one's basic shooting approach (and practice) as simple as possible.         :archer2:
Title: Re: Shoot without thinking?
Post by: McDave on April 13, 2013, 09:19:00 PM
Whether we remember anything about the shot depends on how you define memory, I guess. They say our strongest memory, believe it or not, is smell.  If we smell something that reminds us of childhood, it will put us right back in that spot, with a lot of other memories flooding back that we didn't even know we remembered anymore.

The strongest memory of a shot is the physical sensation of making the shot, which can't be expressed in words, so is not a memory you could explain to anyone else.  But hopefully, the next time you shoot the bow, you will be aware of how it feels to shoot a perfect shot, and this awareness will guide your body.  You can't be aware of how it feels to shoot the bow if you are thinking about the shot process, or anything else, for that matter. You have to totally open up your mind to how it feels to shoot the bow.  You can't think about shooting the bow and be aware of shooting the bow at the same time.

The seeming contradiction is that you have to think about the shot process to learn to shoot the bow.   But then you have to let go of that, and become aware of what's going on in your body as the next step in the learning process.  Once you're aware of what's happening, you don't have to give conscious instructions to your body anymore, nor should you, because thinking cannot exist simultaneously with awareness.
Title: Re: Shoot without thinking?
Post by: gonefishing600 on April 14, 2013, 09:47:00 PM
McDave, your a poet, and a master, and I would love to shoot with you some day!
Title: Re: Shoot without thinking?
Post by: solobowhunter on May 05, 2013, 01:36:00 PM
Wow.  McDave certainly has a way with words. A talent I truly admire. Thank you sir!
Title: Re: Shoot without thinking?
Post by: JMG on May 05, 2013, 01:55:00 PM
Well said McDave!! Well said indeed. For me, I shoot 3-under. I practice to the point to where it becomes 2nd-nature to me.
Title: Re: Shoot without thinking?
Post by: Terry Green on May 07, 2013, 02:22:00 PM
I guess I could elaborate on my 1st post a bit...

The reason I don't remember drawing the bow is because I'm  so immersed in aiming.
Title: Re: Shoot without thinking?
Post by: Gordon Jabben on May 11, 2013, 01:41:00 PM
I guess it's kind of like being "in the zone" in basketball.  I don't remember anything about the shot on game normally.  As far as I know I don't pick a spot or anything but it seems to work.
Title: Re: Shoot without thinking?
Post by: DaddyPaul on May 12, 2013, 08:25:00 AM
RC,
100+ kills with wheelies, only shot 2 thus far with traditional equipment.  I don't remember a thing about either one except those chartreuse feathers zipping into their armpit.  I actually welcome that feeling.
Title: Re: Shoot without thinking?
Post by: Terry Green on May 12, 2013, 09:59:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gordon Jabben:
I guess it's kind of like being "in the zone" in basketball.  I don't remember anything about the shot on game normally.  As far as I know I don't pick a spot or anything but it seems to work.
Exactly!!!!...I played a lot of Bball too.  But I do immerse myself on the spot just like I do the goal.  When the shot window opens on game or bball...all the focus in on the target.....period....for me.