Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: Mic W on June 02, 2012, 04:13:00 PM
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I can see how getting proper form down is important for shooting competitions and backyard shooting. But in a hunting situation you might as well throw proper form out the window.It is extremely difficult to achieve proper form while shooting around brush or trying to remain concealed. :campfire:
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you can still have perfect form while sneaking around a bush or laying on your side for that matter. Practicing your basic form (alignment of arms, release, bow cant, anchor, etc.), which all have variations, is very important in my opinion. Perfect "form" for target shooting is very different to hunting form. You must be able to adapt to all situations, but still keep your ingrained basic form. ...Does that make sense?
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Makes perfect sense to me, because I practice form while shooting, I can shoot pretty much any bow just as well as the next. When in awkward positions it's more likely you will hit what your aiming at if you usually have good form.
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I like to think of proper Field/target form as my benchmark of my shooting abilities,if I cannot make good shots in perfect shooting conditions I'll be less able to make good shots at awkward angles/positions.
Once I get my tourney form perfected I then work on more difficult shooting angles/positions. I even able to make good shots laying flat on my back.
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Form & technique are positive reinforcement for good shooting. Can't remember the last time I had a perfect squared away opportunity at a moving animal in the deep woods.
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Good form?
Tennis, trap & skeet, quarterbacks, golf, handgunners, baseball hitting, skiing, and....yes, archery all depend on good form for consistent results. Good form under ideal conditions will typically translate to better form (and results) when the situation is less than ideal. Good habits are hard to break, once ingrained in the mind. It took me a lot of years to "get" it...the importance of form and consistency to shooting a recurve or longbow well. I'm one of those who don't believe a poor archer can be a good bowhunter. Good, consistent, accurate shooting in ALL situations is one of the trademarks of a really good bowhunter.
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Good form equals good shooting. Bad form equals an occasional lucky shot. The better form that one possesses the more luck will show up in the hunting situations.
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http://youtu.be/aXiXdAJfJPw
Pretty important to me.
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Originally posted by MicW:
in a hunting situation you might as well throw proper form out the window.It is extremely difficult to achieve proper form while shooting around brush or trying to remain concealed.
Absolute totally false statement.
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Originally posted by Terry Green:
Originally posted by MicW:
in a hunting situation you might as well throw proper form out the window.It is extremely difficult to achieve proper form while shooting around brush or trying to remain concealed.
Absolute totally false statement. [/b]
In Michigan I hunt in wooded locations and in most cases have to shoot around obstacles.
I am not denying that practicing good form will help but it is when you get down and dirty that I believe form is secondary to the fundamentals and comfort of the shot.
I have seen it many times where a guy can stack arrows on a range, but in a tree stand or ground blind where the setting is less then ideal they can't hit the broad side of a barn if they were in it.
Also in my quest to become the Alpha Predator I have reviewed hours upon hours of video of the greats (Fred Bear, Howard Hill, Byron Freguson ect...) and if I were to hide their identity they would be judged poorly on their form in a hunting situation.
I am not trying to say practicing form is the wrong thing to do, I am just trying to boil this down to its fundamentals of the draw and use that to base my efforts for all situations.
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Originally posted by MicW:
posted October 05, 2011 12:15 PM
I have shot a recurve in the past for target shooting (an old bear recurve don't remember what model), and went to a compound bow for hunting. The recurve I have shoot now is a Samick sage 60#, I have nothing against this bow so far it seems to work well.
Now I am thinking of getting into Trad. hunting exclusively, Is there a big difference in getting a higher end (custom) bow?
And as just a matter of your own opinion, what maker and/or model would you suggest and why.
Stick around....... :campfire:
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I can't recall any videos I've seen of the bowhunters you mentioned where they have thrown form out the window to take a shot on game. And I doubt any of them would take a shot if they had to throw form out the window.
Perhaps you need to explain to us what your definition of "form" is?
To the majority of "bowhunters" form is considered alignment and consistent anchor.
A bow can be shot from any angle of "cant", and any form of body contortion, and as long as your alignment and anchor are consistent you are using good form.
Without proper alignment and anchor your shot is all but relying on a hope and a prayer!
**Edited after seeing Terry's highlight above**
Just saw your post on shooting a cable gun. You can't shoot an arrow launching device the same as you can a trad bow, a bow can be shot from any angle or position. Explains why I've never shot the other and thus explains your confusion with form.
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As Terry adroitly puts it, "Form is from the waist up." The EASIEST way (but not the only way -- just the EASIEST)to LEARN form is the flat surface stance and upright posture but that is NOT form, just eliminates the weird positions until you learn the alignments necessary. Once you have that feel and knowledge, then it will not matter how you are standing/sitting/bending/ crouching you can still achieve your alignments!
IF you get into a position where you cannot achieve your alignment it would be best to NOT take the shot. No different than the target too far out of range. To be accurate and efficient you need to be able to get that alignment (form) in any position or else -- DON"T SHOOT!
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was blessed to make the shootdown round at the howard hill classic this past weekend made it through from top thirty down to top 8 , due to lack of form on my part , i collapsed slightly on what would end up sitting me down and shot a 5 low left on a turkey ,(im rh) this was an animal target and form is what kept me from advancing further, its the #1 most important aspect of shooting ! target or hunting , i took my largest whitetail from a crouched position in standing soybeans , in illinois 4 years ago , but my alignment was perfect and all due to practice ! so i believe that form is our foundation! and we build on that foundation, thanks for listening, Chuck
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Originally posted by moebow:
As Terry adroitly puts it, "Form is from the waist up." The EASIEST way (but not the only way -- just the EASIEST)to LEARN form is the flat surface stance and upright posture but that is NOT form, just eliminates the weird positions until you learn the alignments necessary. Once you have that feel and knowledge, then it will not matter how you are standing/sitting/bending/ crouching you can still achieve your alignments!
IF you get into a position where you cannot achieve your alignment it would be best to NOT take the shot. No different than the target too far out of range. To be accurate and efficient you need to be able to get that alignment (form) in any position or else -- DON"T SHOOT!
And there it is!!
Thank you Moebow.
Alignment is the key. I would love to learn what it takes to achieve perfect alignment in any shooting condition.
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"Alignment is the key. I would love to learn what it takes to achieve perfect alignment in any shooting condition."
I don't think that is the question or challenge. I think it should be, "Can I achieve (my) alignment in THIS shooting condition?" If I can and everything else is correct then shoot, if not, as I say, pass!
You have to know your own style (form) well enough to know if you have it. Only practice will let you know if it is a feasible shot or not.
As Clint E. would say," you have to know your limitations."
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Originally posted by MicW:
Alignment is the key. I would love to learn what it takes to achieve perfect alignment in any shooting condition.
All you have to do is stick around....I've been preaching that for YEARS here....and a lot of it is on the shot clock thread featured at the top of the thread list!!!!
Do a search for the words 'proper alignment' and you'll get TONS of info.
AND, I even have a segment designated just to proper alignment on The Bowhunters of TradGang DVD.
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Here's you a sneak peek....
CLICK HERE - Extreme Cant Angles with Proper Alignment (http://www.tradgang.com/videos/tg/terry-2.wmv)
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We can allow ourselves in a hunting situation with adrenaline running through our veins to make the shot and resolve the shot scenerio.
All successful bowhunters practice form. Many do that by stump shooting rather than target archery, static form.
That form may be individualized for each archer, but all have some standard of practice. We make shots under less than ideal conditions, not hap-hazardly, but by practice.
Without a standard of practice (alignment, release, consitent bowarm) you minimize your ability to make a shot under the less than ideal conditions.
If your form is on, and grooved in, you can allow the shot to unfold in the hunting woods. The process of making a killing shot becomes second nature through repetition.
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DRAGON !!!......Amen
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Originally posted by MicW:
Originally posted by moebow:
As Terry adroitly puts it, "Form is from the waist up." The EASIEST way (but not the only way -- just the EASIEST)to LEARN form is the flat surface stance and upright posture but that is NOT form, just eliminates the weird positions until you learn the alignments necessary. Once you have that feel and knowledge, then it will not matter how you are standing/sitting/bending/ crouching you can still achieve your alignments!
IF you get into a position where you cannot achieve your alignment it would be best to NOT take the shot. No different than the target too far out of range. To be accurate and efficient you need to be able to get that alignment (form) in any position or else -- DON"T SHOOT!
And there it is!!
Thank you Moebow.
Alignment is the key. I would love to learn what it takes to achieve perfect alignment in any shooting condition. [/b]
And there what is? Alignment is a byproduct of good form... something that you stated "is secondary to the fundamentals and comfort of the shot". I don't know what that refers to. If you're looking for shortcuts there is none... Moebow is pretty much saying to go and practice your form. Knowing when and how to achieve that form in a hunting situation is gained through hunting experiences... you should still strive to get that elbow back and hit that "T" as proper form will serve you well.
Good luck on your endeavors to becoming an Alpha hunter. :wavey:
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Originally posted by Kevin Dill:
I'm one of those who don't believe a poor archer can be a good bowhunter. Good, consistent, accurate shooting in ALL situations is one of the trademarks of a really good bowhunter.
That pretty much sums it up for me....
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I can`t hit anything if I`m not able to square my shoulders to it = alignment. I killed a Turkey once with my bow horizontal and leaned from my knees so much my bow was maybe 12" off the ground at my bowhand. Drilled him.I practice that shot a lot. You`ll get in a lot of shot positions in the woods and most all are to be made if you have shot them before. You gotta practice like you hunt.
If a fella shoots all upright shots in his yard and then gets on a group of pigs in the swamp and has to shoot one from his knees at the outer edge of his range he will probably miss. If he has shot this shot in his yard probably not gonna miss. Get my point?RC
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When you hit the kind of second nature level of shooting like RC has you end up starting threads about not knowing if you know what's going on during the shot sequence... that is a great example of form being ingrained.
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Never thought of it like that. I was leaning towards me being a bit slowwwww but heck it works.RC
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Originally posted by MicW:
I can see how getting proper form down is important for shooting competitions and backyard shooting. But in a hunting situation you might as well throw proper form out the window.It is extremely difficult to achieve proper form while shooting around brush or trying to remain concealed. :campfire:
Form is the only part of shooting a bow and arrow that the archer has any control over.
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Lets think about it like this. Every shot you make should be the same shot. Let that spin for a little while.